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  #1  
Old April 19th, 2001, 01:35 PM
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Hello Friends,

I am just curious to know about this. What is holy stone of Mecca? Why it is the ultimate destination of Muslims? Isn't it an Idol?

This is really controversial thing I have ever seen. On one hand they are strongly agains idols and on one hand their holiest place is having idol!!!

I also read somewhere that this stone is one of the Jyotirling (Shivling). It is true?
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  #2  
Old April 19th, 2001, 02:46 PM
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Patel Bhai,

I dont blame you for any of your emotion shown in the thread! the simple reason is you dont know about it. So let me see if I can answer it!

As far my knowledge goes, there where many idols inside of Kaba (the black cubical) and was promptly destroyed when Prophet Mohammed Won Mecca from Quresh!

This perticular stone is fixed in that cube so that people start at that place to perform "Tawaf" (7 rounds accross the cube) which is a holy ritual! so the only significane of this stone is a pointing direction. Though the other royalty would be its belong to Paradise and was pure White when it was installed!

This is what I know abt it I may be wrong too! but your claim of being this is used as Idole is totally baseless.

And finally you think its ShivLing??? then think whatever coz that doesnt make any difference to me and I am sure many muslim whos Faith is as solid as the Kaba Stone!

Chaoo...
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  #3  
Old April 19th, 2001, 02:54 PM
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I am not expert but

I am not expert but why it is covered by cloth. Why it is not shown openly.

But this is not my expertise so please excuse for hurting any religion sentiments, if any.
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  #4  
Old April 20th, 2001, 07:57 AM
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Simple Human,

Thanks for the information. I just wanted to go into details of it.

Considering it as a pointing direction is good, but that is what Hindo God idols are doing! They are also pointing direction of concentration towards god.

Regarding Shivling, I have raised question. I am not sure about it.

Hope other echarchans can answer it properly.

Any answer on badabhai's question?

One clarification, this thread is not for hurting any religion.
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  #5  
Old April 20th, 2001, 08:41 AM
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Bada Bhai,

Kaba has been gone through many phases of change rite from the day one when it was builded by Prophet Ibrahim! Kaba itself is just a cubical structure and there is nothing inside.

The cloth which is covering Kaba is to my mind is just to protect the outer walls! and this cloth which is called "Kiswa" has "Kalma" written in golden embrodiary. During the Hajj time if you would have noticed they lift it half the way coz many of the folks try to take a piece of it back home! So coming to the point why it is covered I belive its just a tradition! time has passed there is big difference in the quality fo the cloth and its beauty etc.

Patel Bhai,

I am not an expert in Hinduism so dont know why hindu pray to idols! as far the stone of Kaba goes its just a stone dosn't have any figure! I mean hand mouth of some kind of human similarity to it! so there is no question of that stone being treated as Idol.

And lastly Islam is not solely dependent on that stone to preach the message of peace and truthfullness!

Chaoo...
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  #6  
Old April 20th, 2001, 09:24 AM
imrankhan786 imrankhan786 is offline
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Talking the holystoneof mecca

my friend mr patel bhai the holy stone of mecca was build by prophet ibhrahim khalialah and ismail aleh salam it is tje place toward which we pray namaz it is like a masjid the firt place and one more is the baitul mukadas in isreal but now the place toward facing which we pray namaz is mecca it is the biggest masjid for muslim and there is no idol inside it it is empty because we dont worship idols this is the friendly answer to you
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  #7  
Old April 20th, 2001, 09:33 AM
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question

this is an interesting topic..... a question for the people on this post. Can one visit the blackstone only during the haj festival or can a person visit it any time. A friend of mine in bombay used to tell me that every muslim has to visit the blackstone atleast once in his life. why is it so.
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Old April 20th, 2001, 09:41 AM
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Padhu bhai,

Visiting black stone once or anytime is not relevant. Yes visiting Kaba as a whole to perform holy ritual like "Tawaf" has no limits. All depends if you can afford it. This included "Umrah" too (its like doing Half hajj just for the benefit of non muslim brothers!)

The other thing when people visit Mecca where Kaba is situated they just dont come to see the Black Stone! no way!!! its overall visit beacuse Kaba itself is the Mosque first. And when all muslims pray they have to face the Kaba no matter which part of the world they are from.

The other significance of that stone is, when people start "Tawaf" (7 circles around the kaba) they are suppose to kiss the stone! if not possible then just raise your hands before standing in front of it at any distance, chant few verses of quran and begin the Tawaf.

Though visiting Kaba and take a kiss of that stone is no doubt a living dream for muslims all over the world.
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Old April 20th, 2001, 11:00 AM
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can anyone go to visit this place or only muslims are aloud. Is it this crowded throughout the year too. I know its not such a tourist attraction , but i sure would like to see it once.
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  #10  
Old April 20th, 2001, 11:26 AM
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Question

Quote:
And when all muslims pray they have to face the Kaba no matter which part of the world they are from.
Is there any science after this, or just belief?

Also please answer Padhu's question, is it possible to visit it by non-muslims?
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Old April 20th, 2001, 12:27 PM
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Padhu Bhai,

In todayís time unfortunately only Muslim can go to Makkah and Madina. Non Muslim cannot enter those two cities within 80km of its boundaries. As far my knowledge goes in history non Muslim use to travel freely to these places but during some kings rule few anti social element try to destroy these place and so hence the effect of this the rule was enforced that only Muslim can visit there.

The other thing would be I believe when you visit these places you have to follow a very strict rules of cleanness and respect etc. which is taught to Muslim by birth and hence they become very familiar to it. That doesnít mean that non-Muslim brothers are not capable of following them its just that takes a long time to get to learn. Finally these to places are basically mosque a place to worship not to just visit as a Tourist! J

Patel Bhai,

As far the direction to face kaba while you pray I donít know exactly is there any scientific reason to it but for sure it shows to all Muslim no matter where they live that they are same and share the same teaching even method of prayers etc.

When 5 time prayer become obligatory to Muslim, people use to face the mosque Aqsa in Jerusalem and during a night prayer, Angel Gabriel came to prophet Mohammed while he was in the prayer and told him to change his direction towards kaba. Hence all the Muslims follow the facing of kaba while praying. I am sure there must be reason behind why Gabriel came and asked the prophet to change the direction; good Muslim scholar might answer that correctly. I have seen that mosque with my own eyes where this thing happened.
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Old April 20th, 2001, 12:32 PM
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Simplehuman,

I am just asking here, not criticizing. But, does Islam not idolize the stone at Kaba. If not, then it should be treated as just another stone, right. And the punishment for defacing the said stone be the same as defacing a rock or boulder lying anywhere. I am sure, though, that is not the case. A person who defaces the stone will probably be dealt with very severely.

In this instance are you not passing on holiness or reverence to a stone. Does that not amount to idolatry. True, the idol does not depict a person. But its still an idol.

Is there any flaw in this logic ??
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Old April 20th, 2001, 12:54 PM
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Smelly,

As I told before on this thread! the sole purpose of this stone is the starting point from where to start the holy ritual called "Tawaf". Now imagine 2 million plus people surrouding the Kaba and want to perform this ritual and there a four corner of kaba how one can know from where to start and where to end!

So that stone is just used as a pointing help! And the conception of non muslim as to that only Stone is the important thing in Mecca is very very wrong!

Same goes to "Kiswa" the cloth of Kaba! these things are there with some purpose of its own not to be used as Idol! And even if some poeple think this way then its there own thinking!!! there is this good news for them even Cloth of Kaba is Idol then???

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Old April 20th, 2001, 01:01 PM
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SH,

You did not understand my post. Say, for example, if you were there on Hajj, and you somehow defaced the stone. Would no one care, as it is just a stone ?? Or would they treat it as blasphemy and punish you ??
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  #15  
Old April 20th, 2001, 01:12 PM
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Simple Human,

Smelly's point is here. If its purpose is only starting point, you can replace it every year or so. If someone breaks it you can always replace it.

Same is with Kiswa. Why they became idols?
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