IITs=Harvard+MIT+Princeton?

[shahenshah]

IITs better than US institutes, says CBS
CHIDANAND RAJGHATTA

TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ SATURDAY, JANUARY 18, 2003 12:18:10 AM ]

SAN JOSE, California: As hundreds of IIT alumni gather here in Silicon Valley this weekend to mark the golden jubilee of their celebrated school, they have just heard of a fancy new equation being bandied around in the US: IIT=Harvard+MIT+Princeton.


The encomium comes from CBS' highly-regarded 60 Minutes, the most widely watched news programme in the US, which in a rah-rah story last Sunday told its more than 10 million viewers that "IIT may be the most important university you've never heard of."

"The United States imports oil from Saudi Arabia, cars from Japan, TVs from Korea and whiskey from Scotland. So what do we import from India? We import people, really smart people," co-host Leslie Stahl began while introducing the segment on IIT.

"As you are about to see, the smartest, the most successful, most influential Indians who've migrated to the US seem to share a common credential: They are graduates of the IIT," Stahl reported. "Put Harvard, MIT, and Princeton together, and you begin to get an idea of the status of this school in India."

The heady praise came just ahead of the IIT50 fete which begins this Friday with a keynote address by Bill Gates. Others attendees, besides the usual movers and shakers among the alumni, include Stanford University President John Hennessy, India's Human Resources Minister Murli Manohar Joshi, and US envoy to India Robert Blackwill.

The IIT alumni are meeting in Silicon Valley because IITians are found in the greatest concentration here in the US, one reason why CBS chose to profile the school. The 60 Minutes segment was aired on the West Coast last Sunday, but it was displaced by an extended football game on the East Coast where it will be broadcast in the coming weeks.

60 Minutes typically spends several weeks and months, and several tens of thousands and even hundreds of thousands of dollars on a story. The IIT segment, which had been in the works since middle of last year, took co-host Stahl to the institute campus in Mumbai where she interviews current students and captures the ambience of the relatively modest school.

The IITs don't offer well-rounded education, Stahl reports, "But in science and technology, IIT undergraduates leave their American counterparts in the dust."

Among those interviewed for the story is IIT Delhi alumnus and Sun Microsystems co-founder Vinod Khosla, who tells her "When I finished IIT Delhi and went to Carnegie Mellon for my master's, I thought I was cruising all the way because it was so easy relative to the education I had got at IIT."

But the moment of supreme irony comes when she interviews Infosys co-founder NR Narayana Murthy and asks him about his son's education.

Murthy: Well, my son, he wanted-probably wanted to do computer science at IIT. To do that, you have to be in the top 200 and he couldn't do that, so he went to Cornell instead.

Stahl: (awed voiceover amid footage of IIT students on campus): Think about that for a minute. A kid from India using an Ivy League university as a safety school. That's how smart these guys are.

Murthy: I do know cases where students who couldn't get into computer science at IIT, they have gotten scholarships at MIT, at Princeton, at Caltech.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...artid=34701392

suddenly 'better' is such a misused word...

[CYBERIAN]

Originally posted by shahenshah
IITs better than US institutes, says CBS
CHIDANAND RAJGHATTA

TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ SATURDAY, JANUARY 18, 2003 12:18:10 AM ]

SAN JOSE, California: As hundreds of IIT alumni gather here in Silicon Valley this weekend to mark the golden jubilee of their celebrated school, they have just heard of a fancy new equation being bandied around in the US: IIT=Harvard+MIT+Princeton.

This is not to berate IITians but just out of academic interest.

Please tell me which are the successful companies FOUNDED by IITians?

In India most successful companies like Infosys, TCS, Wipro, Satyam, I-Flex were all founded/orginally headed by non-IITians.

PS. I do not consider Murthy of Infosys as an IITian because he did NOT do his graduation from there.

Can you also tell me some IITians who are well known in fields other than software?

[bear]

Don't evaluate IITians or other engineering institutes by the number of companies started by its alumni. They are not management schools. Look at how IITians or other Indians have excelled in their jobs or research compared to others.

Dhirubhai Ambani never went to a management school, yet he sent his sons to best schools in the US. To run a business successfully, management schooling helps but it is not the only thing, otherwise IIM graduates would be having big companies of their own by the time they are 40. The fact is that most don't and often work for guys who have never been to management schools.

[Shringarey]

My Dear Cyberian,

Please tell me which are the successful companies FOUNDED by IITians?


I'll answer this by giving an example. India, in its history had several great castes, peoples. Each had brave men. Rajputs had Rana Pratap, Dalits had Ambedkar, Brahmins had Savarkar, Marathas had Shivaji, Sikhs had Ranjit Singh, Moghuls had Akbar. But there were one set of people - so cowardly, that you would be hard pressed to name a single hero!! Who were these cowardly people? Why - British of course. Can you name one single brave and dashing Britisher? India had so many empire builkders - Tipu Sultan, Babar, Shivaji Maharaj, Ranjit Singh - all starting from scratch and building an empire. British had no single empire builder. Surprising how such cowardly people, bereft of any empire builder could be so dominant no?

The same is for IIT. You will not see any flashiness around. No great creation of empires - but empires are getting created nonetheless - right before your eyes. Only you cannot see it. Quietly, Silently, IITians are working with exemplary patience and talent - unheard, unseen and unsung - yet they are changing the world. Oh Yes - there are very great companies started by IITians - Sun Microsyste,ms being one of them. Yet the founder does not have the penchant to come in the papers - unlike some non-IIT entrepreneural noveou rich.


Can you also tell me some IITians who are well known in fields other than software?

Very many buddy. IT is in limelight because it is a new field. I personally know an IITian who has revo;lutionized leather industry. His name will not be known, as leather is not news-worthy. Ditto - agriculture. Ditto - steel. Ditto - statistics. Today, the top statistician in the world is an IITian. But you wiull not know him. Or his contribution.

Your way of judging contribution is flawed. You look to the papers. What of those who do not come in papers? IITians are at a disadvantage because of their natural reluctance to fame (Gyanam Parmam Dheyam). Asking students of silence to outshout noise is meaningless. Noise will shout and shout and feel tired and keep quiet - and silence will prevail.

Mark it.

[Zen]

Cybarian,

You - Your Money = You = a miserable person seeking a job
IITian - his money = IITian = a skilled man in demand

You are right - there is not a single Indian brand name which can compete with BMW or Microsoft or Armani. None in any industry.

The reason is not that la creame de la cream folks from IITs and IIMs are lesser risk takers and lesser leaders. The problem lies in the Socialistic structure of the nation and flawed rules monopolizing business through license raj and sunning fair competetion. Recently the things started to take a turn and you start to see glimps of the results.

Have you ever read about the time it takes to start a company - in terms of getting permits/permission from different departments, getting infra structural support and getting through red tapes and corruption - an IITian would spend half of his productive life just getting through these issues if a new venture has to be started and he does not have political connections! Forget about starting a company - even if you want to buy a gas station in India - you can not do it without getting 50 politicians involved and spending 20 lacs in bribes!

Brain drain is inavitable! They resort to those establishments who can pay for their skills and they can enjoy a good life. You can be 10 times richer than an IITian - and you may even hire one to work for you - but mind it my frind in XII grade you were not among top 1000 Indians when IIT JEE was conducted. you knew you could not make it so you even did not spend money on the enterance application form! and your arguement proves that you have not grown any since!

[GunsNRoses]

I wouldn't go so far as to call the Brits "cowards". They did have their own set of heroes too (e.g.) Lord Nelson, the Duke of Wellington, Sir Francis Drake etc. who were major contributors to making England the world power that she became. All three of these leaders preferred to lead from the front, just like the leaders you mentioned above. Besides, I believe the Brits are the ones with the reputation of putting up a stiff upper lip, in times of distress. Such a reputation isn't easily earned just by one or two isolated incidents, involving famous people, but rather the deeds of a lot of small people as well. Case in point: A leader of the Israeli Mossad in the 50s (I forget his name and am too lazy to read the book again) related that when he was a prisoner of war with a bunch of British POWs in a German camp, the guards discovered he was Jewish and wanted to take him aside. Apparently, a British Sergeant informed the Germans that while he himself was not Jewish and personally didn't care too much for them, this man was under his command and therefore he was personally responsible for him. He told the Germans that the only way that the Germans were going to get to the man was over his dead body. The Germans backed off and left them alone.

Seriously though, you've got a very good point about the little guys in the backroom who never get any mention for all the vital hard work that they put in, for the good of a company. I think IITians have a penchant towards R&D rather than management and researchers always tend to get the raw deal, when it comes time to take credit for anything.

Which brings us back to the reason that IIT is famous among foreign universities. It's the REPUTATION earned by thousands of little guys, who sat in their little dorms and worked their rear-ends off. They may not be famous, but they came from a culture that encourages hard work. Fame may not come to them personally, but their efforts serve to build a formidable reputation among the academics.

[videsee]

For those who haven't seen the programme, it is on videsee.com in Movieplayer format.

[CYBERIAN]

Originally posted by Shringarey



Your way of judging contribution is flawed.

you seem to have taken my post too seriously , not to mention, wrongly.

your adjective of 'cowardly' for brits makes me think. and your comparison of IITians with British makes me think. Ultimately were you talking in favour of IITians or r u making veiled taunts against them?!

FYI I am neither prejudiced nor have a great opinion about IITs/IITians.

[Shringarey]

Cyberian,

all i am saying is that just becos no brit started from scratch and created an empire means nothing. Their collective was daunting. Similarly, you wud find very few iitians starting companies - their collective might is daunting

[Bro]

Originally posted by videsee
For those who haven't seen the programme, it is on videsee.com in Movieplayer format.

for the link...nice feeling...atleast one of the passions of Nehru were fulfilled

[krishna]

I'm in a Phd program at MIT....
There goes my future....I guess I can be a chaprasi or a peon to some IIT'ian

[BlrBoy]

IITians in India are useless. They have done nothing to India or the world. IITians who have come out of India have contributed a lot to the world( i doubt if they have done anything to India).


I think this is because we dont have a society which encourages new ideas and allow small people to grow.

When ever we talk about the "Great" Indians its always how they have faired in the world. For a Billion population how many big names to do we have other than Murty, Permji, Ambani and a few others.

I really dont take pride in Indians doing good in the world. I will be happy only if we Indians do good In India.. that is the day will be become a developed country from 3rd world country.

[Zen]

Originally posted by BlrBoy
IITians in India are useless. They have done nothing to India or the world. IITians who have come out of India have contributed a lot to the world( i doubt if they have done anything to India).


I think this is because we dont have a society which encourages new ideas and allow small people to grow.

When ever we talk about the "Great" Indians its always how they have faired in the world. For a Billion population how many big names to do we have other than Murty, Permji, Ambani and a few others.

I really dont take pride in Indians doing good in the world. I will be happy only if we Indians do good In India.. that is the day will be become a developed country from 3rd world country.

An IITian is a possibility - a person with a lot of potential. Politics and foul play is so common in India - in every domain and as a rule a creative or really academic mind won't participate in dirty games. Being nice is the gurantee of failure in India.

This is true everywhere in India - Nehru became PM on the cost of making a pakistan! Mangeshkar sisters - very telented though played every trick in the book to shun others out. The list is endless and every fact is made a contoversy.

"Brain Drain is better than Brain in the drain" - This is what JRD Tata had replied to Indiara Gandi when she showed her concern(!) about IITians leaving the nation.

Has anybody seen the movie "Ek Doctor ki maut" - it was based on the same topic!

[dhurandhar]

Originally posted by krishna
I'm in a Phd program at MIT....
There goes my future....I guess I can be a chaprasi or a peon to some IIT'ian

what else do you expect being at

Maharashtra Institute of Technology??

or is that

Madras Institute of Technology??

[echarcha]

but I know that IIT is a great place.

Let me say why I feel IIT surpasses other institutions in INDIA.

I am from Mumbai Universtiy. Mind you there are many brilliant students there too.

The pattern of curricullum and examinations in non-IITs like Mumbai Varsity are still "cram-till-you-drop-and-then-vomit-on-answer-sheet" type.

IITs have a different way of teaching and testing students. The porfessor who teaches a class has the freedom to test his class by setting a question paper. In Mumbai varsity, you never know who has taught what and who is going to ask you which questions.

I remember a paper in my Third Year. It was really tough as mcuh of questions and material were never ever heard of in our college. Later after some investigation we found that the examiner had referred to some book which was never ever used by any of the other colleges under Mumbai universirty. The topics there in were not toally out of the syllabus but very advanced and not mentioned in the official syllabus.

These kind of things happen a lot. So we used to contacvt our friends and friends of our friends in other colleges to get a idea of what books were being used and what topics were being taught which were not in the normal syllabus.

This practise paid off when we faced on Logic Design paper in Final year. The professor had used a latest edition book which was available only in a foriegn edition. All of us pooled money and got about 15 zeroxes made and studied from that. We all made it through the exams.

But the point here is that we took a chance and really crammed on that book. We did not bother whether we had completely understood the topic or not.

IITs differ here. Unless the student has understood the topic, he will not be able to answer the questions. Here, we had understood whatever our professor taught us and the book he taught us from. Yet, we had to cram some stuff which was totally on the fringe of the syllabus for the sake of passing the exam.