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  #1  
Old August 15th, 2009, 11:05 PM
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Smile Indian nationalism and patriotism ... HOW do we Defeat Defeatism?

List of 8 ... you may copy/paste for ease of reply. Thanks for participation.


1. What in your view constitutes nationalism and patriotism?


2. Do you agree that we have become a defeatist nation lacking pride?


And only if you agree with # 2 ... 3. What are the causes of our lethargic attitude toward national pride?



4.
How do we identify defeatists among us?


5. How do we cure us and ours of lethargic attitude toward nationalism?


6. Role models ... people and countries we can use as yard-stick?


7. Where do we begin? That is if we can identify the causes and defeatists among us.


8. How do we begin? I mean the process.


With all due apologies ... intent is never to offend.
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  #2  
Old August 15th, 2009, 11:16 PM
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Re: Indian nationalism and patriotism ... HOW do we Defeat Defeatism?

1. What in your view constitutes nationalism and patriotism?

One word ... PRIDE ... in oneself and what belongs to me. India in this case.



2. Do you agree that we have become a defeatist nation lacking pride?

Yes.



And only if you agree with # 2 ... 3. What are the causes of our lethargic attitude toward national pride?

Thousand years of Gulami, Nehru, passive freedom movement ... Mahatma Gandhi ... not enough blood was spilled to free ourselves of bondage. Freedom demands sacrifice ... not enough was sacrificed for ours to appreciate.


4. How do we identify defeatists among us?

I don't know.


5. How do we cure us and ours of lethargic attitude toward nationalism?

I don't know but two years of compulsory military service is okay for the start.

6. Role models ... people and countries we can use as yard-stick?

Sheikh Mujibur Rahman ... and Japan.



7. Where do we begin? That is if we can identify the causes and defeatists among us.

I don't know.


8. How do we begin? I mean the process.

I don't know answer to question but we must start ... today ... now ... tomorrow is too far. Easier said than done ... that is defeatist in me speaking.
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दूर से देखने पर तो यही लगता था ... 'वाह! वहाँ क्या मजा होता होगा!'
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  #3  
Old August 16th, 2009, 10:17 AM
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Re: Indian nationalism and patriotism ... HOW do we Defeat Defeatism?

1. What in your view constitutes nationalism and patriotism?

The confidence that any insult and/or negative comment on your country is justifiably false.


2. Do you agree that we have become a defeatist nation lacking pride?

Yes.


And only if you agree with # 2 ... 3. What are the causes of our lethargic attitude toward national pride?

Most of the insults and/or negative remarks thrown at our country cannot be justified as false. Most turn out true... and many we think are true because of our upbringing, education or history... which turn out to be false when we travel across the world. (Just imagine, if this is our problem... what will be the problem of pukestanis)

4. How do we identify defeatists among us?

Simple... those who cringe with shame at being insulted... yet never think of doing the right thing, but instead want to hide their shame behind words of glory

5. How do we cure us and ours of lethargic attitude toward nationalism?

Most important thing is limit our population. When there are less resources available than what can suffice the population with... we will see the problems we see today. Everybody turns out to be an opportunist... we hide our shame 'cos we want to survive... get whatever is remaining by hook or by crook (and to understand this there is no better way than to stand on a crowded railway station and try to get on a 20-minute-late train).

6. Role models ... people and countries we can use as yard-stick?

U.S.A.


7. Where do we begin? That is if we can identify the causes and defeatists among us.

Education... and compulsory reduction of population for the next 20-30 years.

8. How do we begin? I mean the process.

Put a limit on number of children a couple can have. In fact, we need a qualification to get married. Educate people to only look for literate spouses. No education, no spouse.
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Last edited by Sane Less; August 16th, 2009 at 10:22 AM.
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  #4  
Old August 16th, 2009, 11:17 AM
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Re: Indian nationalism and patriotism ... HOW do we Defeat Defeatism?

1. What in your view constitutes nationalism and patriotism?

Nationalism means taking the side of your country in any matter without caring if it is right or wrong .

Patriotism is pride in the culture and the interests of the land ,but based on ethical principles.

To me both mean a love for the soil of the land without caring for the failures of the people who inhabit it......the fact that they are dirty , filthy , support corrupt politicians....are inefficient, illiterate ...just because they are my people.....

It means the pain that goes through my heart every time I hear of something bad happening to this country .....be it a bomb blast or a famine.

It means the anger that flashes through my mind when the country is humiliated........whether in a cricket match .....or an international conference.....


2. Do you agree that we have become a defeatist nation lacking pride?

No ,we simply dont care ......never have.....it is a sab chalta hai country where there is culture of neglecting the country's frontiers not just since the nehruvian age ,but for millenia.......no ideas of keeping with the latest military technology, and a deep division based on caste ........


And only if you agree with # 2 ... 3. What are the causes of our lethargic attitude toward national pride?

Causes are same as above.

4. How do we identify defeatists among us?

I dont know whether everybody will agree with me or not , to me the ( pseudo )secularists and their stooges are the defeatists .

These are the same people who allowed the frontier to go neglected against China .....and are now alowing the ' peaceful ' minority to dominate their agenda.


5. How do we cure us and ours of lethargic attitude toward nationalism?

Vote a nationalist party like the BJP to power with two thirds majority in parliament without secular allies.......and the alternative to the BJP should also be a nationalist party ......basically a two nationalist party system.


6. Role models ... people and countries we can use as yard-stick?

Bismarck......the unifier of modern Germany.......'' The great questions of the day cannot be settled by majority votes and elections, but by blood and iron ''...... is what he said.......our country too needs some steel in its heart and a readiness to shed blood to defend its interests if its great questions are to be settled.


7. Where do we begin? That is if we can identify the causes and defeatists among us.

The people of Maharshtra can begin by voting the BJP-Shiv Sena combine to power in the upcoming Maharashtra assembly elections .


8. How do we begin? I mean the process.

We can begin by reacting in anger whenever anybody attacks a hindu anywhere in the land ......without caring for regionalism.......a Maharashtrian must feel hurt when a kashmiri pandit is killed or forced out of his state by terrorists .......and a gujrati must feel concerned about an assamese hindu being slowly outnumbered by Bangladeshis coming by immigration......


With all due apologies ... intent is never to offend.
These are my views.

Last edited by ashdoc; August 16th, 2009 at 11:29 AM.
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  #5  
Old August 16th, 2009, 11:23 AM
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Re: Indian nationalism and patriotism ... HOW do we Defeat Defeatism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashdoc View Post
4. How do we identify defeatists among us?

I dont know whether everybody will agree with me or not , to me the ( pseudo )secularistsand their stooges are the defeatists .

These are the same people who allowed the frontier to go neglected against China .....and are now alowing the ' peaceful ' minority to domnate their agenda.
I completely agree. These are the very same people who love to abuse anything associated with India especially the predominant and major religion. Yes these are the Hindu bashers. They are the vermin who unfortunately dominate the media scene. I have identified some of the same shit here on EC too.
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  #6  
Old August 16th, 2009, 11:36 AM
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Re: Indian nationalism and patriotism ... HOW do we Defeat Defeatism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tantric_yogi View Post
List of 8 ... you may copy/paste for ease of reply. Thanks for participation.


1. What in your view constitutes nationalism and patriotism?

I could be wrong but I think nationalism and patriotism are two different things, both require pride but nationalism goes one step ahead of patriotism... Richardd Bach once said that patriotism is three words, Gratitude For Country.... I think Nationalism is an ambition of making country indebted to you... you know chinese types...fukkin tibetans have slitty eyes so they must be chinese and so are mangolians.. or RSS type akhand bharat which encompasses Balochistan, burma, java, sumatra and what not...


2. Do you agree that we have become a defeatist nation lacking pride?

Do we lack pride... I find indian very snobbish... you know sanskriti, parampara, ved, yog, knowledge and other stuffs... One war which I have seen in my lifetime was Kargil... Did we show defeatist mentality... whole nation was behind our soldiers....do we change ourselves once we are out of country.... very rarely...deep inside we always remain desi... what is Echarcha...a bunch of resident aliens holding on to one more connect with des.

And only if you agree with # 2 ... 3. What are the causes of our lethargic attitude toward national pride? [/b]
We may have become a little indifferent towards national pride... but that is because we are in the middle of the growth curve.... we are not prosperous and we still are in search of roti, kapda and makaan but we are neither facing existential crisis like palestine etc.... so that we would prefer bazooka to a pen.



4. [/b]How do we identify defeatists among us?

No need to.... attitude could be infectious... sometimes it doesnot take much to change ourselves... we can surprise ourselves....

5. How do we cure us and ours of lethargic attitude toward nationalism?

Same as above..

6. Role models ... people and countries we can use as yard-stick?

Role models or heroes don't exist.... we try to escalate someone to godly level because we don't have confidence in ourselves... we try to overlook their faults and if someone points that out we dont accept it and bbrand them with labels.

7. Where do we begin? That is if we can identify the causes and defeatists among us.

You remember that tour of indian cricket team of Pak after Kargil.....pakis were welcoming indians with warmth and all.... suddenly everyone started chanting how we are alike and how politicians screwed us.... again after some years the animosity is back...
I don't know how does it begin...where does it begin...but changing people's approach is not as difficult as we think..



8. How do we begin? I mean the process.



With all due apologies ... intent is never to offend.
I don't know if I made myself clear.... i'm sure many ppl would think that I'm going soft on pak or promoting friendship with pak.... that's not the case... i cant think of a better example...
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Old August 16th, 2009, 07:07 PM
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Re: Indian nationalism and patriotism ... HOW do we Defeat Defeatism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chitrala View Post
I don't know if I made myself clear.... i'm sure many ppl would think that I'm going soft on pak or promoting friendship with pak.... that's not the case... i cant think of a better example...
Chitrala bhau, you expressed sorrow when that mehsud was bombed in the act. You called me Che Guevera. What does one make of it?

Here is your quote:
http://www.echarcha.com/forum/reputation.php?p=441647

Quote:
Originally Posted by chitrala View Post
RIP che guevara of pakistan...
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Old August 16th, 2009, 08:13 PM
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Re: Indian nationalism and patriotism ... HOW do we Defeat Defeatism?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

List of 8 ... you may copy/paste for ease of reply. Thanks for participation.


1. What in your view constitutes nationalism and patriotism?

Helping your country in your own little way like following traffic rules, not littering, not doing gol maal on taxes, tc.

2. Do you agree that we have become a defeatist nation lacking pride?

No
And only if you agree with # 2 ... 3. What are the causes of our lethargic attitude toward national pride?



4. How do we identify defeatists among us?

Thoe who keep complaining about govt not doing this, that, etc.

5. How do we cure us and ours of lethargic attitude toward nationalism?
Start Voting.

6. Role models ... people and countries we can use as yard-stick?

Countries - Singapore (Rule of law and imporoved quality of life), Korea ( For getting respect for Global Brands), Sweden (Welfare state)

People - Lee Yuan Kew.

7. Where do we begin? That is if we can identify the causes and defeatists among us.
No need to begin. We are going well since 91.

8. How do we begin? I mean the process.
ref answer tion 8
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  #9  
Old August 17th, 2009, 10:56 PM
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Re: Indian nationalism and patriotism ... HOW do we Defeat Defeatism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by echarcha View Post
Chitrala bhau, you expressed sorrow when that mehsud was bombed in the act. You called me Che Guevera. What does one make of it?

Here is your quote:
http://www.echarcha.com/forum/reputation.php?p=441647
chitrala ji... care to reply?
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Old August 17th, 2009, 11:24 PM
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Re: Indian nationalism and patriotism ... HOW do we Defeat Defeatism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by echarcha View Post
chitrala ji... care to reply?
Sorry I missed that one...

I was kidding, he thought of himself as another Che.... though there was this strong notion in paki media that Mehsud was an indian stooge.... if you remember Zaid Hamid's earlier interviews, he supported Mehsud's demands against rest of paki media... his argument was if Pak gave in to Mehsud's demands then he would be left with no other way but to call it peace...

After Swat failure, Zaid took about turn and started calling for Mehsud's head..... during this phase he painted him to be India controlled and said that through him India tries to disrupt situation in NWFP and border of pak-afghan.

If any of it is true then India did a real poor job in handling Mehsud...we could have used him much better...if we already have not and it is confidential...
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Old August 17th, 2009, 11:31 PM
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Re: Indian nationalism and patriotism ... HOW do we Defeat Defeatism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by echarcha View Post
Chitrala bhau, you expressed sorrow when that mehsud was bombed in the act. You called me Che Guevera. What does one make of it?

Here is your quote:
http://www.echarcha.com/forum/reputation.php?p=441647
Cha pai... Is it a wrong link.. it takes me to some reputation thing... I don't remember calling you Che.... If I really did then it must have been in some other context.... I definitely would not have been comparing you to Mehsud...
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