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View Poll Results: What Will Be The Poll Outcome In 2014
BJP will be the single largest party hugely improving it's tally 9 69.23%
Kangress may lose heavily but it's secular partners may gain 2 15.38%
Kangress tally may not cross the 2 digit figure 0 0%
BJP will be decimated and rural India will vote for the Kangress again. 2 15.38%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

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  #31  
Old May 22nd, 2012, 10:30 AM
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Re: Congress Descending Into It's Grave

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Originally Posted by chaiwaala View Post
The post of Prime Minister is essentially a political position. Rahul Gandhi will be a babe in the woods if he ever goes there.

Once you are there, you play politics.

Administration is done by assorted assistants, babus, etc. etc.
Just because my baby is not shrewd.. not a moron doesnt mean he is bad!

And do you think it wud be better..if PM becomes more.. err.. administrative rather than indulging in trivial politics?! Also.. when I said administrative.. I meant it more like a policy maker sorts..
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  #32  
Old May 23rd, 2012, 03:15 AM
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Re: Congress Descending Into It's Grave

Congress is going to loose like they lost in President-election(only formalities are left).On the other hand, BJP is not a strong enough party to secure majority. So, its going to be a allied government with congress in opposition. Yet again, not looking very bright for indian-politics.
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  #33  
Old May 23rd, 2012, 04:43 AM
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Re: Congress Descending Into It's Grave

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Originally Posted by rahulpsharma View Post
That's what most of us are....!!! So we get cheats to rule us....

Who is your favourite party, by the way.... Who is your PM candidate.... And why do you think 'He/She' should be the PM.... We've discussed Congress' good and bad things, ad nauseam....
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Originally Posted by Dead On Arrival View Post
He is not ready to answer that.. u see.. I asked the same in that other thread.. But I guess he cant think of a suitable candidate!! or a suitable party other than the ruling one!

that is our problem. we never imbibed democracy as it is meant to be. A PM should be elected as a leader by the elected members of parliament. We have always looked at it from the other end - we always look at who will be the PM and then elect the MPs.

About swami's opinion regarding who should be the PM - from what I read from his posts, atleast he is firm about who should NOT be the PM. Thats a better attitude than blind fan-fare about first deciding that Rahul should be PM and then going around the world trying to find reasons why.
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  #34  
Old May 23rd, 2012, 05:22 AM
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Re: Congress Descending Into It's Grave

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Originally Posted by Dead On Arrival View Post
Just because my baby is not shrewd.. not a moron doesnt mean he is bad!

And do you think it wud be better..if PM becomes more.. err.. administrative rather than indulging in trivial politics?! Also.. when I said administrative.. I meant it more like a policy maker sorts..
I see what you're saying. I don't think I expressed myself clearly ... Being PM involves administrative work too. But it's not merely a managerial kind of position, right? To get things done, to change the status quo, to make new policies and laws, etc., a PM needs to negotiate with diverse interest-groups. I think of the PM post as much more of a political position than an administrative one. Not that there is no administrative work involved.

Do you think Rahul Gandhi is capable of playing this kind of politics? I don't think so. He's a greenhorn!

And when we say politics, it might involve trivial politics or vindictive politics or confrontational politics or any other kind ... right? Like how the BJP scuttled that good FDI in retail bill. That bill would have gotten foreign players to invest in storage and transportation infrastructure, so that produce from farms can reach grocery stores in a speedy manner without getting spoiled. For example, we don't have a big cold-storage truck fleet because no one is willing to invest large sums of money in that area. Anyway the BJP scuttled the bill even though it would have benefited millions of our farmers. Scuttling good bills like that these BJP-wallahs are stupid and immature.
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  #35  
Old May 23rd, 2012, 05:27 AM
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Re: Congress Descending Into It's Grave

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Originally Posted by kkkk View Post
A PM should be elected as a leader by the elected members of parliament.
I don't think so ... I mean this has devolved to being a mere formality!

In other parliamentary democracies in the West, there is a designated leader who leads the party during the elections, and there is a clear presumption that this leader will become the PM.

Gordon Brown led Labour during the 2007 elections; he became PM.

David Cameron led the Tories during the next elections; he became PM.
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  #36  
Old May 23rd, 2012, 05:52 AM
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Re: Congress Descending Into It's Grave

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Originally Posted by chaiwaala View Post
I don't think so ... I mean this has devolved to being a mere formality!

In other parliamentary democracies in the West, there is a designated leader who leads the party during the elections, and there is a clear presumption that this leader will become the PM.
not necessarily. The PM baton changed hands from tony blair to GB without an election. The 2007 elections you are referring to was only Labour Party's leadership election. It was not a general election where citizens elect members of parliament.

and Britain did not vote for cameron as the PM, Britain voted for Conservatives as a party. It wouldnt have mattered if Iain Duncan Smith was still the leader. In fact, just before the elections when there were live TV debates between the leaders of the three major parties in the UK - Labour (gordon brown), Conservatives (David cameron) and Liberal Democrats (nick clegg), Nick Clegg was the most popular leader clearly overshawdowing Cameron and Brown. People did not vote for the PM-leaders though, they voted for their candidates who added up for the Conservatives as a majority.

Last edited by kkkk; May 23rd, 2012 at 05:57 AM.
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  #37  
Old May 23rd, 2012, 05:56 AM
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Re: Congress Descending Into It's Grave

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Originally Posted by kkkk View Post
not necessarily. The PM baton changed hands from tony blair to GB without an election. The 2007 elections you are referring to was only Labour Party's leadership election. It was not a general election where citizens elect members of parliament.
My mistake ... thank you for the correction.

But the other example I gave of David Cameron ... hasn't that become the norm in all parliamentary democracies in the West?

The big advantage being citizens know before-hand prior to the actual election who the top dog will be!
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  #38  
Old May 23rd, 2012, 05:58 AM
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Re: Congress Descending Into It's Grave

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Originally Posted by chaiwaala View Post
My mistake ... thank you for the correction.

But the other example I gave of David Cameron ... hasn't that become the norm in all parliamentary democracies in the West?

The big advantage being citizens know before-hand prior to the actual election who the top dog will be!
C'mon! Don't be a spoil sport.. That takes away from all the drama that we so look forward to.. every 4 years!
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  #39  
Old May 23rd, 2012, 05:59 AM
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Re: Congress Descending Into It's Grave

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Originally Posted by chaiwaala View Post
But the other example I gave of David Cameron ... hasn't that become the norm in all parliamentary democracies in the West?
I dont think so. I edited my earlier reply, will paste it here again -

Britain did not vote for cameron as the PM, Britain voted for Conservatives as a party. It wouldnt have mattered if Iain Duncan Smith was still the leader. In fact, just before the elections when there were live TV debates between the leaders of the three major parties in the UK - Labour (gordon brown), Conservatives (David cameron) and Liberal Democrats (nick clegg), Nick Clegg was the most popular leader clearly overshawdowing Cameron and Brown. People did not vote for the PM-leaders though, they voted for their candidates who added up for the Conservatives as a majority.
Leader of the party becoming the PM maybe norm. What I am saying though is that we Indians place more importance to who that person will be, than other parliamentary democracies.
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  #40  
Old May 23rd, 2012, 06:00 AM
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Re: Congress Descending Into It's Grave

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Originally Posted by Dead On Arrival View Post
C'mon! Don't be a spoil sport.. That takes away from all the drama that we so look forward to.. every 4 years!
what happens every 4 years? general elections? which country are you in?
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  #41  
Old May 23rd, 2012, 06:19 AM
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Re: Congress Descending Into It's Grave

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Originally Posted by kkkk View Post
I dont think so. I edited my earlier reply, will paste it here again -

Britain did not vote for cameron as the PM, Britain voted for Conservatives as a party. It wouldnt have mattered if Iain Duncan Smith was still the leader. In fact, just before the elections when there were live TV debates between the leaders of the three major parties in the UK - Labour (gordon brown), Conservatives (David cameron) and Liberal Democrats (nick clegg), Nick Clegg was the most popular leader clearly overshawdowing Cameron and Brown. People did not vote for the PM-leaders though, they voted for their candidates who added up for the Conservatives as a majority.
Leader of the party becoming the PM maybe norm. What I am saying though is that we Indians place more importance to who that person will be, than other parliamentary democracies.
OK ... Just exploring ...

Here, we had state elections recently. If the AIADMK party won, there was no doubt in anybody's mind about who would be CM. It would be Jayalalitha.

If BSP wins in UP, it will be Mayawati. If SP wins in UP, it will be Mulayam or his son. No one had any doubt about these things before the elections.

But sometimes that kind of clarity is not possible. Mainly because of internal bickerings within the party.

Do you think BJP will project a Prime Ministerial candidate for 2014 ... the way Vajpayee was projected as PM prior to the NDA regime. I think they won't. The reason is that they won't be able to reach a consensus and rally behind one candidate. If one candidate was a clear front-runner, they could have done that. But there is no such candidate in the BJP. Too many aspirants, and no one has a clear lead.

Congress is governed by a different set of dynamics because of the unwritten hereditary succession rules.
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  #42  
Old May 23rd, 2012, 06:22 AM
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Re: Congress Descending Into It's Grave

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Originally Posted by Dead On Arrival View Post
C'mon! Don't be a spoil sport.. That takes away from all the drama that we so look forward to.. every 4 years!
The drama is still there ... the whole drama is in knowing which party will get elected!

BTW, if you or me try to run in an election, we will lose our deposits.

Our netajis are smart no doubt about that. They show all their smartness and shrewdness when it's election-time.

Sadly, aforementioned smartness seems to desert them once they are in the corridors of power.
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  #43  
Old May 23rd, 2012, 06:57 AM
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Re: Congress Descending Into It's Grave

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Originally Posted by chaiwaala View Post
OK ... Just exploring ...

Here, we had state elections recently. If the AIADMK party won, there was no doubt in anybody's mind about who would be CM. It would be Jayalalitha.

If BSP wins in UP, it will be Mayawati. If SP wins in UP, it will be Mulayam or his son. No one had any doubt about these things before the elections.

But sometimes that kind of clarity is not possible. Mainly because of internal bickerings within the party.

Do you think BJP will project a Prime Ministerial candidate for 2014 ... the way Vajpayee was projected as PM prior to the NDA regime. I think they won't. The reason is that they won't be able to reach a consensus and rally behind one candidate. If one candidate was a clear front-runner, they could have done that. But there is no such candidate in the BJP. Too many aspirants, and no one has a clear lead.

Congress is governed by a different set of dynamics because of the unwritten hereditary succession rules.
will BJP project a prime ministerial candidate? at this point I dont think so. BJP has been more idealistic than congress plus they have issues about infighting. personally I think no-one having a clear lead is a good thing. If we get someone out of the contenders who can set a clear lead in course of time, then we surely have someone who is capable of doing some things than just become a PM because of his name.
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  #44  
Old May 23rd, 2012, 07:16 AM
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Re: Congress Descending Into It's Grave

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will BJP project a prime ministerial candidate? at this point I dont think so. BJP has been more idealistic than congress plus they have issues about infighting. personally I think no-one having a clear lead is a good thing. If we get someone out of the contenders who can set a clear lead in course of time, then we surely have someone who is capable of doing some things than just become a PM because of his name.
I really want to curse you, kkkk.... .... You know what, I came back home half an hour ago.... Took bath.... Prepared Tea and was sipping tea with some 'mamra' (Murmure) [Mamra is what we call it in Gujarati, nyways..!!]... So I had a bowl full of 'mamras' and a cup in the right hand full of hot tea....!! And I was slowly scrolling down to read comments.... And I read this.... Believe me, my lungs, trachea and larynx all choked at the same time with a whole hearted laughter... Tea spilled over my key board....!!! And seems now it will be due for renewal anytime.... And I cursed you.... ....
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  #45  
Old May 23rd, 2012, 07:21 AM
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Re: Congress Descending Into It's Grave

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Originally Posted by kkkk View Post
I dont think so. I edited my earlier reply, will paste it here again -

Britain did not vote for cameron as the PM, Britain voted for Conservatives as a party.
Did people vote in Barack Obama or Democrats...?? I think, not too distant in past there was this BJP slogan 'aab ki baari, atal behari'.... Were they promoting ABV for some movie show...?? Ofcourse NOT... They were firm that their 'mukhota' is ABV.... Now post ABV, they have no acceptable face in BJP.... Hence the face-vacuum..... Otherwise, they are not far behind to cash in on anything for power - from face to race...!!
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