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Old September 10th, 2011, 02:17 PM
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Question How come Communal Violence Bill a danger to the nation?

The government is proposing a Communal Violence Bill which will protect the victims in a riot and prevent persecution based on caste, community and religion.

Now how come such a bill is dangerous? How will it cause 'national disintegration'?

Is it not something similar to 'hate speech and hate crime' law in the West?

Quote:
Communal Violence Bill dangerous, against majority: BJP
PTI | Sep 10, 2011, 07.28PM IST

NEW DELHI: Terming the proposed Communal Violence Bill as "dangerous", the BJP on Saturday opposed the legislation at the National Integration Council meeting here, saying it presumes that the majority community is always responsible for such riots.

"We feel that the Communal Violence Bill is a dangerous Bill as it harms the federal structure of the Constitution. It allows the Centre to hold all the powers. Moreover, it does not consider anybody a citizen and treats a person only as one belonging to either a majority or a minority," leader of opposition in the Lok Sabha Sushma Swaraj told reporters.

Her Rajya Sabha counterpart Arun Jaitley and chief ministers of three BJP-ruled states -- Ramesh Pokhriyal Nishank (Uttarakhand), Sadanand Gowda (Karnataka) and Raman Singh (Chhattisgarh) -- echoed these sentiments at the NIC meeting.

The BJP made it clear that the Bill in its present form, which has been drafted by UPA Chairperson Sonia Gandhi-led National Advisory Council, should not come to Parliament.

"You will write off a person as a criminal, just because he or she is born in a majority community and you will presume that a person would be a victim only because you are born in a minority community. This bill is very dangerous," Swaraj said.

The main opposition insisted that if passed, this legislation will encourage communal tension instead of reducing it, as it seeks to divide the country into majority and minority communities.

"The draft bill presumes that the majority community is unjust, and the minority community is the victim. But in our country, various sections of community are in a minority in one state and a majority in another state. The provisions of the Bill will go against the majority community in various states," Swaraj said.

Swaraj said that a person should be judged by his character and style of working, and not by the religion in which he or she is born.

She insisted that it is wrong for the proposed Act to presume that those belonging to the majority community are always guilty of starting communal violence.

"It is also wrong to assume that a person born in a particular community would belong to the majority everywhere in the country. Some communities are a majority in one region and a minority in another," the BJP leader said.

Citing examples, she said Christians may be a minority in north India but are a majority in some north-east states. Similarly, the Muslims would be a majority in some pockets and a minority in others.

The BJP also argued at the NIC meeting that a discussion on communal violence at this juncture was not at all relevant as there have been no instances of such acts in the recent past.

"There have been two major terror incidents in Mumbai and Delhi recently. The incidents of naxal attacks are also on the rise. Therefore, today's agenda is not relevant as there has been no incident of communal violence in the country in the recent past. A discussion on naxalism and terrorism would have been more productive," Swaraj said.

She also pointed out that holding a meeting of the NIC once in three years make the body virtually redundant and this should be an annual affair. The last NIC meeting was held in 2008.

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Old September 10th, 2011, 02:29 PM
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Re: How come Communal Violence Bill a danger to the nation?

Did not read what the law is but maybe this law is just like another tada/pota for religous heads.And BJP/VHP leaders also
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Old September 10th, 2011, 03:35 PM
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Re: How come Communal Violence Bill a danger to the nation?

This law (Prevention of Communal Violence Bill or POCV Bill) is not like TADA/POTA in that it says that a) in case of violence against minority or in case of fear of violence against minority in any state, the central govt is empowered to act b) the law speaks of violence against minority and punishment for majority, so in such scenario burning alive of Hindu pilgrims locked inside train bogeys would not warrant action against state govt but the subsequent riots in which Muslims died would. Also, it talks of applying Article 355, i.e. bringing in Governor's rule in a state in case of communal violence (or the threat of) against minority. The Bill is drafted by NAC, incuding Teesta Setalvad, John Dayal, Harsh Mander, etc, and aims to protect the minorities against attack by majority i.e. Hindu community. Clauses in the bill include punishment for sexual assault on a person of minority community, for dereliction of duty by govt servants in case of violence against minority, for failing to control subordinates by higher authorities, etc. As per its provisions the Bill will be apply to all states except J & K which has the option to not pass the Bill so those who argue that Kashmiri Hindus driven out of Kashmir will be treated as minorities in that state are not correct or lying. The Bill IMHO seems to be tailor made with Gujarat post-Godhra riots in mind and assumes that Muslims and Christians, not even Sikhs who are a minority too, will be victims as it talks of `reburial of victims in accordance with their cultural practises.`

NAC draft of POCV

Arun Jaitley aganst the POCV

Article arguing for the POCV (this guy includes Kashmiri Pandits as benefiting, in fact since the Act will probably not apply there due to special status of the state they will not)

ANother interesting take on POCV

Last edited by Parijataka; September 10th, 2011 at 03:38 PM.
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Old September 10th, 2011, 05:21 PM
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Re: How come Communal Violence Bill a danger to the nation?

Bihar CM Nitish Kumar on POCV Bill -

New Delhi: Voicing concern over certain provisions in the proposed bill to prevent communal violence, Bihar Chief Minister Nitish Kumar today said they may create an “impression” among the people at large that the majority community is “always responsible for communal incidents.”
Bihar Chief Minister Nitish Kumar has voiced concerns over certain provisions in the communal violence bill.

“…because of provision of this bill, impression may be created among the people at large that the majority community is always responsible for communal incidents. This opinion may cause sharp reactions among people of the majority communities, which will ultimately go against the minorities and will have adverse effect over the basic objective of the bill,” Kumar said in his written speech read out at the National Integration Council (NIC) meet here by a senior state minister.

He also opposed the provision in the proposed bill for promulgation of Article 355 of the Constitution in a limited area during “internal disturbance”.

He also questioned the notion promoted in the bill that only states falter in taking administrative decisions and Centre has the role to set it right. “I am not at all hesitant to denounce this notion that only state governments make mistakes. The Centre has also faltered many times, a glaring example being appointment of previous CVC,” he said.
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Old September 10th, 2011, 05:33 PM
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Post Re: How come Communal Violence Bill a danger to the nation?

But PM feels its a good bill.

Quote:
Communal violence bill: Manmohan Singh praises NIC, Chidambaram
Published: Saturday, Sep 10, 2011, 22:40 IST
By Manan Kumar | Place: New Delhi | Agency: DNA


The minority communities often feel they are being unfairly targeted in the “aftermath of unfortunate incidents”, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said on Saturday, inaugurating the National Integration Council meet, which is todebate the communal violence bill.

“It is a matter of great satisfaction that in recent years, relations among various communities have by and large remained harmonious,” the prime minister observed. “Members of this council have played an active role in ensuring that people respond with maturity to developments that may otherwise flare up communal tempers. Nevertheless, we need to maintain a continuous vigil in this regard.”

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh came to the rescue of his colleague home minister P Chidambaram at the National Integration Council (NIC) meet today by elaborately listing out the steps taken by him to bolster the intelligence and investigating apparatus.

Mentioning various steps taken up by the Ministry of Home Affairs, Singh said, “The intelligence sharing mechanism under the multi-agency has been bolstered and the National Intelligence Grid is being implemented so that intelligence from various sources can be accessed and analysed to identify actionable points.”

Singh, however, did not mention the NCTC, making it evident that there are no takers yet for Chidambaram’s favourite project of creating an overarching body to counter terrorism at all levels and it still has a long way to go as other cabinet colleagues are not ready to go with the idea in its original form.

On Friday, Chidambaram had said that the process was on to set up the NCTC soon. In his speech at the NIC, he did not delve in to the subject of terrorism and rather focussed on broad parameters of solving communal violence.

Chidambaram said: “The biggest challenge is the use of violence as an instrument of protest or an instrument of change.

Insurgency, militancy and terrorism threaten to unravel the idea of India.” He also said the country still faces the old evils like communalism, casteism and parochialism. And that it was natural to focus on violent attacks of terrorist groups but attention must be given to the violence unleashed by ideologically-driven Left wing extremists.

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Old September 11th, 2011, 03:22 AM
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Re: How come Communal Violence Bill a danger to the nation?

Don't know anything about this bill. But I had read one article by Arindam Chaudhuri who says that this bill is a bad idea.


Quote:
Communal Violence Bill can be a disaster for India

ARINDAM CHAUDHURI
New Delhi, June 3, 2011

The road to hell is almost always paved with noble intentions. In the Indian democracy, this has been proven true a countless number of times. I am afraid we shall be headed yet again towards hellish times if a new policy that is being currently debated manages to become law, thanks to the super secular denizens of India whose intensity and range of noble intentions usually matches the mayhem that the same noble intentions often trigger.

I am talking about the well intentioned economists, sociologists, activists and assorted jholawala types who are convinced that it is their divine right to advice the UPA regime on all sorts of policy issues. Right at the top of this pyramid of do-gooders is the National Advisory Council (NAC) which is headed by Sonia Gandhi. Virtually all the members of NAC have impeccable records and reputations when it comes to their commitment towards the aam aadmi of India. Let me also be very clear in stating that a lot of credit for path breaking policy changes like the Right to Information Act, the NREGA and the Right to Education Act should go to the NAC. It is also wonderful to see members of the NAC valiantly battle it out against a callous, insensitive and cruel government when it comes to implementing the Right to Food Act.

In each of these above mentioned cases, the men and women with noble intentions have sought to protect and defend the rights of victims – usually the poor and the downtrodden of India who get only lip service from the government. And now, this group of people has set out to protect and defend the rights of another set of victims – I am talking about the victims of communal riots and violence. Nobody will dispute the fact that communal riots have been a blot on the Indian democracy. Similarly, nobody will dispute the fact that those have usually been the minorities who have borne the brunt of communal violence, even though provocation often comes from both sides of the divide. The 2002 riots of Gujarat and the 2008 riots of Orissa are often cited as classic examples of how communal violence makes hapless victims out of minorities. In Gujarat, it was Muslims; and in Orissa, it was Christians. So to continue with their noble mission to protect and defend victims, members of the NAC have given the green signal to the Communal Violence Bill – officially labelled as the Prevention of Communal and Targeted Violence Bill – that seeks to protect minorities from murder, mayhem and worse during communal riots.

When I read newspaper reports about this proposed law and the objections raised by politicians like Arun Jaitley, my first reaction was that the BJP was probably trying to play the Hindutva card. But I was speechless with shock when I actually managed to go through some provisions and clauses of the Bill. Most newspapers, magazines and TV channels have been politically correct and have sheepishly and squeamishly reported about the problems with the Draft Bill. But I have never believed in being politically correct. And so, let me say in plain words what the implications of the proposed law are.

If this Draft Bill becomes law, it will become Constitutionally accepted that only Hindus cause riots; and that Muslims, Christians and other minorities can never be held responsible for riots because the definition of the term ‘group’, which is the backbone of this Draft Bill, is made totally in such a manner that the majority, that is the Hindus, will be at the receiving end of the stick. Thus, if this Draft Bill becomes law, the Indian Constitution will accept that only Hindus incite and provoke religious hatred and denigrate other religions; and that Muslims and Christians can never do that. If this Bill becomes law, all the accused in the Gujarat riots will be culpable and be sentenced, while all those responsible for the death of train passengers at Godhra would be presumed to have harboured only goodwill for Hindus.

If this Bill becomes law, only Hindus will be tried, convicted and sentenced for communal violence and incitement of communal hatred because the Constitution will refuse to accept that Muslims and Christians are capable of violence and hatred. If this Bill becomes law, any anonymous complainant can file a police case against a Hindu for inciting communal hatred – and the police will have to register it as a non-bailable offence. The accused – who would be arrested – would not even have the right to know who the complainant is. And the accused Hindu will virtually be presumed to be guilty unless he or she can prove his her innocence. A Hindu activist who complains against fanatic Christian missionaries (Believe me, there are many of them out there) converting tribals through inducements and bribes will be sent behind bars; the Christian missionary who openly calls Hindus ‘heathens’ or ‘Kafirs’ and tramples upon idols of Hindu Gods and Goddesses will be forever found innocent by the Indian Constitution.

That was as far as Hindus are concerned. But it is not just about them. Every other clause in the Bill seems flawed. The definition of ‘Hate Propaganda’ is designed to give the government draconian powers and curb freedom of speech. The bill seems to be made on the basis of a dictatorial approach which assumes the accused guilty until proven innocent, and this is totally unconstitutional. Then, of course, it talks about the formation of a ‘National Authority’, a new power centre for harassment.

So, now you see where noble intentions can lead up to. I have no doubt whatsoever that activists, do-gooders and others of their ilk, right up to the members of the NAC, genuinely want to protect minorities from communal riots and violence. I have also no doubt that a majority of them – I am deliberately not saying all of them – harbour a peculiar and inexplicable hatred towards all aspects of Hinduism. But ask yourself honestly: Is this Bill going to promote communal harmony in the country? I would have simply laughed out loudly and derisively if the matter had not been not so serious and potentially devastating for India. And frankly, how does one define minorities? There are many districts and towns in India where Muslims or Christians outnumber Hindus. Who will then be blamed for communal violence and riots? If one were to suppose there are riots in two towns in Uttar Pradesh – one with a Muslim majority and one with a Hindu majority... What will the police do in both these cases? Arrest only Hindus because the Indian law will state so?

Moving beyond the Bill and the disastrous impact it will have on India if it becomes law, I must also point out one thing that is peculiar to the Congress party and the Gandhi family in particular. The readers of The Sunday Indian will know that I am quite an admirer of the Gandhi family, due to my particular fondness for the promise that Rajiv Gandhi held. I have never had any doubts about their contribution to the India story. And yet, they have had this strange tendency to depend on and promote advisors and Kitchen Cabinets – a move that has often cost them dearly in political terms. Indira Gandhi had a series of advisors who came from a non-political background. They were committed Indians. And yet, it is they who are responsible for the monstrous license-permit raj in India that is primarily responsible for the endless corruption. Rajiv Gandhi too had many bright advisors who had no interest in electoral politics. And look at what they did first with the Shah Bano case, then the Ayodhya case and finally the Bofors issue. I fear Sonia and Rahul Gandhi are in danger of committing the same mistake. It was Shah Bano and Ayodhya during the Rajiv era that eventually propelled the BJP to power in Delhi. It could be the Communal Violence Bill in the Sonia and Rahul era that could yet again hand over the keys of Delhi to the BJP.

I will sum up by saying that communal harmony cannot be brought about with such discriminatory bills. It can be brought about by providing access to education and equal opportunities for a dignified living. It’s time the government thinks about such methods instead of passing such draconian bills or for that matter increasing internal security budgets etc. to fight the menace of naxalism. Access to equitable policies and right to a dignified living will take care of most of the problems that the government seems so clueless about.

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Old September 11th, 2011, 03:26 AM
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Re: How come Communal Violence Bill a danger to the nation?

Sutradhar ji, you put this thread under INTERNATIONAL POLITICS?
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Old September 11th, 2011, 07:46 AM
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Re: How come Communal Violence Bill a danger to the nation?

Cha pai is American now . This site is also hosted in USA Hence Indian politics is international for him
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Old September 11th, 2011, 08:35 AM
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Re: How come Communal Violence Bill a danger to the nation?

Oh my mistake... I will move it.
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Old September 11th, 2011, 10:13 AM
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Re: How come Communal Violence Bill a danger to the nation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by echarcha View Post
But PM feels its a good bill.
i am sure he feels good about his view just above his head too.
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Old September 11th, 2011, 10:26 AM
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Re: How come Communal Violence Bill a danger to the nation?

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Originally Posted by echarcha View Post
But PM feels its a good bill.
Must be Sonia's command(to feel good).
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Old September 11th, 2011, 10:32 AM
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Re: How come Communal Violence Bill a danger to the nation?

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Originally Posted by Napolean View Post
Must be Sonia's command(to feel good).

Dr. MMS must surely be wondering sometimes 'what did i do to deserve this?'
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Old September 11th, 2011, 12:08 PM
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Re: How come Communal Violence Bill a danger to the nation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by echarcha View Post
But PM feels its a good bill.




ok.
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Old September 11th, 2011, 12:13 PM
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Re: How come Communal Violence Bill a danger to the nation?

Hope you are aware of the gag order by the lokpal of EC
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ok.
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Old September 11th, 2011, 10:00 PM
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Talking Re: How come Communal Violence Bill a danger to the nation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by swami View Post
Hope you are aware of the gag order by the lokpal of EC
What gag order ... ???

This is a good time to remind the minorities about who is their 'godfather`or rather `godmother` and the party they should support in the fast approaching crucial Uttar Pradesh assembly elections. The virtuous ones have proposed a legislation that will protect the persecuted minorities. As Digvijaya Singh ji has already stated in his new blog in TOI communalism is as dangerous as corruption. Expect all parties to oppose this bill other than Congress, Lallu's RJD and Mulla's SP. Behen ji has smartly not commented on the Bill so far saying it is not the right time! Expect Rahul ji Gandhi to get a big promotion and a chance at PM post in 2014 if Congress does well in Uttar Pradesh Assembly elections (so far in Bihar and other states such as Kerala Congress has done worse than previous elections under his guidance, in TN most of the hand picked candidates of Rahul ji lost).

Also, a very good move to detract from the humongous scams that have surfaced recently. So, MMS, astute and intelligent man that he is, is correct in saying the Bill is good!
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