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  #1  
Old December 9th, 2001, 03:39 AM
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It’s time we got intolerant

ek achi article he ye,if u have time just go through this

Appeasement of a particular religion and religious community is an old time tested formula used by many a politician, given the diversity in religion, language and culture in our country.
Almost all the major religions of the world enjoy a following in India as freedom of religion has been accepted as a fundamental right. While Hinduism — a non-proselytising religion without any organised clergy — is the religion followed by a vast majority, there are also other organised and proselytising religions like Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Jainism, Buddhism, Sikhism etc.

Zoroastrianism is also, of course, a non-proselytising religion. India is also a country with second highest population of Muslims in the world. The highest being in Indonesia.

The credit for popularising the word “appeasement” or tushtikaran has to go to the leaders of the BJP and the Sangh Parivar. One of the consistent poll planks of the BJP leaders has been to charge the Congress with appeasing the Muslims. The charge of appeasement of Muslims caught people’s sympathy when the Rajiv Gandhi Government passed legislation to nullify the Supreme Court Judgement in Shah Bano’s case.

There was a widespread feeling that the exclusion of divorced Muslim women from Section 125 of CPC which enables divorced women to apply for maintenance, was to appease Muslim fundamentalist leadership for votes. Muslim Personal Law is another instance cited by the BJP leaders to substantiate their charge of Muslim appeasement, particularly polygamy and divorce of Muslim women by pronouncing talaq thrice in a single breath.

The Uniform Civil Code is proffered as a solution by the BJP but is opposed tooth and nail not only by most Muslim leaders but also by a significant section of Hindus. Giving compensation to the victims during communal riots (who are overwhelmingly Muslims), banning Satanic Verses — a novel written by Salman Rushdie with derogatory references to the Prophet of Islam, and subsidising Haj pilgrimage are other instances of appeasement of Muslims by the Congress in the eyes of the BJP leaders.

There is no doubt that none of the above measures have helped the common Muslim in any way. More than 90 per cent of Muslims in India are petty artisans, labourers or self-employed with very low income. These sections are neither going to go to Haj, nor going to read or be bothered if someone else reads Satanic Verses. The men from these sections hardly have any option to go in for polygamy.

Muslim women from this class have no complaints that men frequently invoke their privilege to divorce their wives by pronouncing talaq thrice and even if thus divorced, the women from this section have hardly any option of asking for maintenance having regards to her ex-husband’s income.

Neither the Muslim leaders nor the government of the day has taken any special measures to ameliorate the lot of these sections. The issues for which Muslims leaders agitate and the government of the day readily accede does not concern more than 90 per cent of the Muslims at all. Though the BJP severely criticised the Congress for appeasement of Muslims, with the NDA Government led by the BJP nothing changed and the same old policies continued.

The BJP-led NDA government might have realised the advantages of acceding to token issues raised by the Muslim leadership, which costs the exchequer next to nothing. The alternative of providing education, job opportunities or source of decent to the 90 per cent of the Muslim population is more painstaking and cost-wise prohibitive even if not impossible.

The political class has not treated the Muslims alone with tokenism, which is then criticised as appeasement. Before the pro-Khalistan leaders took over during the disturbing 1980s, the Akali Dal led by Longowal was agitating in Punjab over four demands viz., restructuring Centre-State relations; handing over Chandigarh to Punjab; reconsidering the construction Sutlej-Yamuna Canal link Project which would have enabled Haryana to get its share of water through the Canal and relaying Gurubani through All India Radio.

Not surprisingly, the only demand met with some amount of immediacy was the last and perhaps the least significant one. It is possible to conclude that the Sikhs were appeased by the Congress led by Indira Gandhi if we go only by the demand that was acceded by the government and the demands that were not acceded to. We will also have to ignore the political justifiability of the demands raised by the Akali Dal.

Politically checkmating these demands by abortive Rajiv-Longowal accord and later assassination of Longowal cleared the way for pro-Khalistan extremists to take over the Punjab is now history known to all of us.

The BJP-led government has completely forgotten its electoral promise of appeasement of none and debate of positive secularism. Look at its record — while not reversing the policy on token issues Uniform Civil Code, subsidy to Haj pilgrims, etc., the government has started acceding to the token issues of majority community.

Referring the film Fire for reviewing the censorship certificate granted to it; deleting portions from the NCERT history textbooks to appease the Brahmins, Jains and Sikhs; are the case in points; permitting the Sangh Parivar leaders to threaten with construction of Ram Janmabhoomi Temple at the site of demolished Babri Masjid; not taking any action against those who had close darshan of Ramlala breaking the inner cordon of CRPF are some of the cases in point.

Just as the Muslim fundamental leadership ignore the real issues of the community, the BJP is indulging in similar tokenism towards the majority community.

The debate over Poto is also painfully turning communal and it appears that the BJP is more interested in scoring points over the Opposition when it is going to face elections in Uttar Pradesh rather than having a serious plan to combat terrorism in our country. All the religions of the world have survived without any State patronage in the recent times.

No religion requires crutches of State patronage. Religions have not benefited by any appeasement. Appeasement and tokenism, if at all, helps only those who claim to represent a particular religious community and aspire to be unchallenged leaders of the community.

Our Constitutional scheme is against any such appeasement. The constitutional benchmark is equality — irrespective of caste creed and religion. It must be remembered that our Constitution is strictly against any discrimination of any citizen or community on grounds of religion, caste or creed.

But the Constitutional scheme does not tie the hands of the government, nay calls upon the government to take positive steps to achieve equality. Rights of minorities to administer their own institutions without interference from the government is more to see that that there is equality in letter and spirit and none are discriminated. Similarly reservation for the SCs and STs cannot be called appeasement. We must distinguish between appeasement and constitutional measures to check discrimination against any person.
-By Irfan Engineer

(The writer, a lawyer, is Director,
Centre for Study of Society and Secularism.)
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  #2  
Old December 9th, 2001, 08:26 AM
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lets get intolerant....(we already are..6 dec--1992....)

lets get intolerant again....(march 2002...)

The fact is without Islam or muslims this country cannot survive.

without muslims there can be no BJP as RSS is mainly thriving on muslims.......reflect that.

so lets get all muslims outta this country.....( how will you do that..)

...actually we don't know what to do with muslims in this country....

I know......................



















leave them alone.
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  #3  
Old December 9th, 2001, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dhurandhar Bhat
lets get intolerant....(we already are..6 dec--1992....)

lets get intolerant again....(march 2002...)

The fact is without Islam or muslims this country cannot survive.

without muslims there can be no BJP as RSS is mainly thriving on muslims.......reflect that.

so lets get all muslims outta this country.....( how will you do that..)

...actually we don't know what to do with muslims in this country....

I know......................

leave them alone.
well dhurandhar even i agree that bjp is thriving on muslim polpulation now..but not so much as congress and samajwaadi party
rss ki baat hi nahi,,,political party hi nahi...lekin haan
yeh rss vhp..jo hindonke karta dharta bante hai...kuch nahi kar rahe hai hinduonke liye..sach hai aur kadva hai

lekin haan..musalmaanon ke saath kya kare....
leave them alone.....

matlab nahi samjah

saath mein agar woh chale to khushi hogi,,,desh ke liye kare to aur khushi hogi,,,na ki aatankwaad kare aur SIMI jaise sanghatan banaye
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  #4  
Old December 9th, 2001, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
originally posted by chirag
saath mein agar woh chale to khushi hogi,,,desh ke liye kare to aur khushi hogi,,,na ki aatankwaad kare aur SIMI jaise sanghatan banaye
well said man, they should think that india is their mother land rather than that pukistan, they should stop producing like pigs 30-40 children in one's life time, stop raising halla gulla when some mother ****er who killed many a hindus and built a masjid in a place of temple. stop distributing sweets when pakistan wins palying with india. stop listening to that scum bags like bukhari(rather throw him out of religion).accept uniform civil code............................................................and so on are likhthe likhthe takh jaunga lekin ye katham nahi hoga.
well i think the only solution to this is strap a lie detecter to each and every muslim and if he says that he loves pukistan more than INDIA just send him to gas chambers thats it, thats the only way.
-babu
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  #5  
Old December 10th, 2001, 02:11 AM
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well you fail to understand the muslim populace of this country...so have congress and BJP.....in fact there is no proper leader and representation of muslims...bukhari is no real leader.no mass following.....wait till muslims have a leader.

regarding SIMI well......mirror mirror......look at VHP,BD...again since they get state funding and raise slogans which are considered "Patriotic" they are "nationalist" organisations...and muslim organizations are "anti-nationalist".......the nation in question here is a Hindu rashtra and not India.

Muslims here are as much Indians as Hindus are..and no one has the right to tell us who we are and what we shall do.Not at least scum heads like some babu from downtown Hyde park...who is not able to understand anything.....naxalites e.g........are naxalites muslims...or are they supported by ISI???

Leave muslims alone..till we have a united India so be it.Afterthat you have your Hindu rashtra and we will again have something like pakistan....I call it Al-hind.

If you want to make a temple there,and prove it your victory.Nobody can prevent a divided India again.Test me.

Muslims in this country were the rulers and are as much citizens as any damn community.We have shaped this country,and without us there will not be any India.Make no mistake about it.You want to make it another afganistaan.....go ahead.

So better think about the consequences of being intolerant...before being one.

Hyderabad is a great muslim "Garh"....no wonder scumbags like baboo are jealous and envy that pride.

Infact all fanatic hindus are nothing but jealous of rich past and pride of muslims in this country.

Also lots of hindu women fell to handsome muslims...babu too is a victim I guess???Well its not the muslims to blame,,,its your impotency.
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  #6  
Old December 10th, 2001, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
regarding SIMI well......mirror mirror......look at VHP,BD...again since they get state funding and raise slogans which are considered "Patriotic" they are "nationalist" organisations...and muslim organizations are "anti-nationalist".......the nation in question here is a Hindu rashtra and not India.
atleast they do not take the side of ISI and so called shitistan, the want india to be powerful rather than be like a shit place like pukistan.

Quote:
Muslims here are as much Indians as Hindus are..and no one has the right to tell us who we are and what we shall do.Not at least scum heads like some babu from downtown Hyde park...who is not able to understand anything.....naxalites e.g........are naxalites muslims...or are they supported by ISI???
yes i do agree that every one has right to be called a citizen, but before that they should see to it that they love only INDIA and INDIA not that shitplace called pukistan.
well if u want to talk about naxalites its a different issue alltogether if u are ready i would be more than delighted to open a new thread for that.

Quote:
Leave muslims alone..till we have a united India so be it.Afterthat you have your Hindu rashtra and we will again have something like pakistan....I call it Al-hind.
may be in your dreams INDIA would divide but not in reality, wake up u little boy.

Quote:
Hyderabad is a great muslim "Garh"....no wonder scumbags like baboo are jealous and envy that pride
ek bar hyderabad ke oldcity tho jake dekh dusri baar teri nakh kam kiya tho mai mera nam badal dalunga, kya samje nahi. there the minorities live the life of pigs yes pigs and even worse than that. its what they have made for them selves where as the hindus have sticked to " hum do hamare do" principle and progressed.ask GPeL if u want he would surely tell u how muslims in hyderabad live.

Quote:
Infact all fanatic hindus are nothing but jealous of rich past and pride of muslims in this country.
yes thats what i say, u just had past no present no future, u are worse than a dalit

Quote:
Also lots of hindu women fell to handsome muslims...babu too is a victim I guess???Well its not the muslims to blame,,,its your impotency.
(echarchans please excuse me)
abe gandu, u still have not come to pick up ur sister panties where the heck where u all these days. well about impotency ask ur sister she would tell u.
-babu
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  #7  
Old December 10th, 2001, 10:26 AM
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We need to get

Quote:
Originally posted by Dhurandhar Bhat
lets get intolerant....(we already are..6 dec--1992....)

lets get intolerant again....(march 2002...)

The fact is without Islam or muslims this country cannot survive.

without muslims there can be no BJP as RSS is mainly thriving on muslims.......reflect that.

so lets get all muslims outta this country.....( how will you do that..)

...actually we don't know what to do with muslims in this country....

I know......................
leave them alone.
Pakistani leaning guys like you out of India!!
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Old December 10th, 2001, 10:39 AM
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Old December 10th, 2001, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dhurandhar Bhat
lets get intolerant....(we already are..6 dec--1992....)

lets get intolerant again....(march 2002...)
Was this one incident enough to say that the Hindus are intolerant.

I wish I can understand the mentality of hindus that we still are tolerant of all religions and the majority of Hindus would prefer to live in peace with Muslims and others inspite of centuries of having been repressed, tortured and humiliated by people of foreign origins and religions.

I say this in given that the one incident on Dec 6th was enough to get the muslims feeling insecure in this country.
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Old December 10th, 2001, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by King


Was this one incident enough to say that the Hindus are intolerant.

I wish I can understand the mentality of hindus that we still are tolerant of all religions and the majority of Hindus would prefer to live in peace with Muslims and others inspite of centuries of having been repressed, tortured and humiliated by people of foreign origins and religions.

I say this in given that the one incident on Dec 6th was enough to get the muslims feeling insecure in this country.
well said king....
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Old December 10th, 2001, 10:50 AM
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Babu ji well said about old city.. is ko kabutar khaana, dholpura, Old mehdipatnam, area ki sair karaa deni chahiye.. and then to some localities like Jublie hills, shyamlaal building area, Mahendra hills area to show him the stark differences just within one single city.
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  #12  
Old December 10th, 2001, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Babu ji well said about old city.. is ko kabutar khaana, dholpura, Old mehdipatnam, area ki sair karaa deni chahiye.. and then to some localities like Jublie hills, shyamlaal building area, Mahendra hills area to show him the stark differences just within one single city.
well said Ravi bhai, aap anjane me kabhi gaye kya udhar
-babu

P.S: echarcha bhai i would like to change my name to babu_bhagyanagari(the original name of hyderabad)would that be posssible with my same profile
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  #13  
Old December 10th, 2001, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by BABU_HYDERABADI


well said Ravi bhai, aap anjane me kabhi gaye kya udhar
-babu

P.S: echarcha bhai i would like to change my name to babu_bhagyanagari(the original name of hyderabad)would that be posssible with my same profile

pehle city ka naam officially badaliye jaise hamari mumbai mein hua hai....aur haan bhaygyanagri hamare shroto par adhik madhur lagta hai ,,hyderabad se..
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Old December 10th, 2001, 10:59 AM
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With no offense to videsee, Simple Human and IA and

any other Muslims on eCharcha.

Whenever there is a slight uproar against anything Islamic in India, there is always the Hindu population to be blamed.

But I am glad that there are many good Muslims in India which speak out against their own Muslim brethren when thinsg get stupid.

Like Shabana Azmi who spoke up against the stupid Shahi Imam when he spoke in favour of Taliban and Osama.

Yes December 6th was a big event which was unfortunate and caused a lot of heart burn between the two communities.

I write this especially since Pakistan loving folks like Dhurandhar grow up in India, eat Indian food and breathe Indian air and ultimately come out to screw India.

I wish to ask such people, tell us one incident where a Hindu has killed anyone in pakistan or some province of Pakistan asking for a separate nation. Whereas in Kashmir, it seems like it is okay to kill innocent Hindus and the military for the cause of Freedom!

Look Mr. Dhurandhra, you maybe an Indian by birth but I think you owe your allegiances more to the likes of Taliban and their sponsor Pakistan.

Atleast on eCharcha we have good Indian Muslims like videsee and IA and others... So leave them alone and dont drag them when you generalise about HIndus and Muslims!!
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Old December 10th, 2001, 11:02 AM
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Yup gayaa hoon.. I used to work in the suburbs and had to pass thru these areas... Saala kismat pandu thaa yaar.. I konw the old city area like the palm of my hands.. galli galli se vakif hoon.. crefew ke time bahut help kiyaa ye knowlege.. had to go to work but had to avoid trouble spots.. so intricate knowledge of the gullis made that possible.. still saala mere ko ek chot lag hi gayaa..
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