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  #46  
Old April 29th, 2002, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by vyomkeshsaxena


shivaji was a gr8 ruler who worked for the welfare of people...n sparking a debate whether he was a shudra..maratha is a black-spot on his image..instead a thread on this gr8 ruler's good policies would have done justice to this gr8 soul...

chatrapati shivaji ki jai
bharat mata ki jai

Yeh baat huee na!
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  #47  
Old April 29th, 2002, 05:40 AM
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Here comes Recker again with his usual signature thread again. I do not understand why peole dwell in past. All we all should do is learn from the good deeds of the people in that era. Neither you nor I was present at Shivaji's birth, so what do we achieve now by categorizing himself to a caste.


Nobody can deny that he was a great man and awesome warrior.


Frineds, try to tacke the issue that are in front of your eyes and are pertinent to you.

Please save your energy for something constructive.
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  #48  
Old April 29th, 2002, 07:25 AM
AdiDravida AdiDravida is offline
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http://www.ambedkar.org/bamcef/images/shivaji.html

Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj

Shivaji Maharaj, the greatest Shudra mountain warrior.
Shivaji Bhosale was an mountain warrior heroe and spiritual renewer shudra. His dazzling adventures have inspired generations. He was a great military leader with impeccabel morals, put into practice. But presently he has been used as an weapon by the arya brahmins. He was born on Feb 19, 1627 at fort Shivaneri. Shivaji had for his teacher and guides as a great man like Dadaji Kondadev. Shivaji had the born leader’s magnetism and threw a spell over all who knew him, drawing the best elements of the country to his side and winning the most devoted service from his officers. His dazzling victories and ever ready smile made him the idol of his soldiers. A royal gift of judging character was one of the main causes of his success. Shivaji taught the people of the country to hold their heads high, develop self-confidence and face foreign invasions boldly. He emphasized on native talent, strict discipline and believed in solicitude for peasants, old women, men and children. Shivaji’s private life was marked by a high standard of morality. Shivaji as he was born in a shudra community(Fourth Varna), none of the arya-brahmin was ready to do his coronation , atlast Gagabhatta, a famous Brahmin from Benaras put the story of Shivaji’s ancestors being kshatriyas descended from the solar dynasty of Mewar. The coronation was made by the thumb of the leg of Gagabhatta.
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  #49  
Old July 4th, 2010, 07:41 AM
MiMaratha MiMaratha is offline
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Angry Re: Who says Shivaji was not a Shudra?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdiDravida View Post
http://www.ambedkar.org/bamcef/images/shivaji.html

Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj

Shivaji Maharaj, the greatest Shudra mountain warrior.
Shivaji Bhosale was an mountain warrior heroe and spiritual renewer shudra. His dazzling adventures have inspired generations. He was a great military leader with impeccabel morals, put into practice. But presently he has been used as an weapon by the arya brahmins. He was born on Feb 19, 1627 at fort Shivaneri. Shivaji had for his teacher and guides as a great man like Dadaji Kondadev. Shivaji had the born leader’s magnetism and threw a spell over all who knew him, drawing the best elements of the country to his side and winning the most devoted service from his officers. His dazzling victories and ever ready smile made him the idol of his soldiers. A royal gift of judging character was one of the main causes of his success. Shivaji taught the people of the country to hold their heads high, develop self-confidence and face foreign invasions boldly. He emphasized on native talent, strict discipline and believed in solicitude for peasants, old women, men and children. Shivaji’s private life was marked by a high standard of morality. Shivaji as he was born in a shudra community(Fourth Varna), none of the arya-brahmin was ready to do his coronation , atlast Gagabhatta, a famous Brahmin from Benaras put the story of Shivaji’s ancestors being kshatriyas descended from the solar dynasty of Mewar. The coronation was made by the thumb of the leg of Gagabhatta.

Hey People,
Now, Everyone can make a website and post such things, You are reading in the thread....It doesn't matter, Who were Shivaji Maharaj...?
And, Don't repeat "Shivaji", Call them "Shivaji Maharaj", Unless you don't have right to pronounce their name...
And, Of course We dont' care 'Gagabhatta', or anything like that...

Afterall, Kashi ki kala jati, Mathura me Maschid Vasati, Agar Shivaji Na hote, Sunnat hoti Sabki....

Remember this anytime...

You are talking this bevcause Shivaji Mahraj has fought for you...
Never forget this...

Last edited by MiMaratha; July 4th, 2010 at 07:42 AM. Reason: spell
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  #50  
Old July 4th, 2010, 12:43 PM
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Re: Who says Shivaji was not a Shudra?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiMaratha View Post
Hey People,
Now, Everyone can make a website and post such things, You are reading in the thread....It doesn't matter, Who were Shivaji Maharaj...?
And, Don't repeat "Shivaji", Call them "Shivaji Maharaj", Unless you don't have right to pronounce their name...
And, Of course We dont' care 'Gagabhatta', or anything like that...

Afterall, Kashi ki kala jati, Mathura me Maschid Vasati, Agar Shivaji Na hote, Sunnat hoti Sabki....

Remember this anytime...

You are talking this bevcause Shivaji Mahraj has fought for you...
Never forget this...
Hopefully after this outburst you will participate on other debates here as well . Whatever Shivaji did or did not do , there will be critics for and against. The idea is to debate fairly even if the debate is sensitive for you .

... Lagta hai finally yeh Mod dimag mein utar gaya hai ...
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  #51  
Old July 4th, 2010, 02:30 PM
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Re: Who says Shivaji was not a Shudra?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by vyomkeshsaxena View Post
u r not hitting the keyword kranti pai...no onez confused here....lemme clarify by giving a small example...if u..kobra or whomsoever was adopted by a person of low caste right from ur birth n nurtured u with utmost care n never gave a single chance for u to complain that u r adopted n one day ur real parents turn up n feel sorry to abandon u n in goodwill the person who took care of u hands u to ur iriginal parents..then what,being a major, will be ur reaction...
1) will u reject ur original parents bcoz this shudra person gave u much more that even ur high-caste parents wouldnt have given

or
2) u will merily go with ur parents n start hating the low-caste guardian n never look to him again...just bcoz he was a shudra or somethin

in my opinion kobra etc would have definitely opted for second point

in the same way shivaji was a gr8 ruler who worked for the welfare of people...n sparking a debate whether he was a shudra..maratha is a black-spot on his image..instead a thread on this gr8 ruler's good policies would have done justice to this gr8 soul...

chatrapati shivaji ki jai
bharat mata ki jai

disclaimer- i'em not a maratha/maharashtrian (this is bcoz some caste/religious fanatics will blast me in posts to come n i wanted to atleast steer clear of atleast this comment)
#1 - bcoz biological parents don't matter; i disagree with moses and not because of the money; yashoda krishna is more appealing than devki krishna; karna died as suta putra

many famous kings in india were not kshatriya, but i was told shivaji maharaj was kshatriya.
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  #52  
Old July 4th, 2010, 02:37 PM
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Re: Who says Shivaji was not a Shudra?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiMaratha View Post
It doesn't matter, Who were Shivaji Maharaj...?
And, Don't repeat "Shivaji", Call them "Shivaji Maharaj", Unless you don't have right to pronounce their name...
you mean who was shivaji maharaj. the maharaj thing does not work well with me because for over 20 years in india Maharaj was the owner of drive thru panthela who brought me paan and kharra (mawa) to my scooter... shivaji is fine in english and that is with utmost respect...
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  #53  
Old July 4th, 2010, 05:33 PM
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Re: Who says Shivaji was not a Shudra?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by amritvani View Post
you mean who was shivaji maharaj. the maharaj thing does not work well with me because for over 20 years in india Maharaj was the owner of drive thru panthela who brought me paan and kharra (mawa) to my scooter... shivaji is fine in english and that is with utmost respect...
No, in english you should address him Mr. Shivaji... or Emperor Shivaji... wokay
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  #54  
Old July 4th, 2010, 06:10 PM
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Re: Who says Shivaji was not a Shudra?????

Here we go again about history and wiki links and blog links.

Hey Ram.. when will folks leave Shivaji maharaj alone???
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  #55  
Old July 4th, 2010, 06:24 PM
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Re: Who says Shivaji was not a Shudra?????

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Originally Posted by Sane Less View Post
No, in english you should address him Mr. Shivaji... or Emperor Shivaji... wokay
how about shivaji pai if he joined ec?
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  #56  
Old February 20th, 2017, 04:02 PM
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Re: Who says Shivaji was not a Shudra?????

Hamari varna-vyavasthaa ( caste-system ) hi hamari padti ka kaaran hai,.. Purane samay mein, sirf Kshatriya hi ladte the,,… Brahmin, Vaishya aur Shudra kahete the,.. "Yeh hamara kaam nahin,…". Aur, kisi bhi akraman ya hamle ko poore josh se, ladaya nahin jata thaa,..

iisi karan, Taimur, Gazni, Ghori, Bin Kasim, Sikandar ( Alex. ) Lodi, Babar … jaise hamla karte rahe, humein lootte rahe,.. ( Thodi si matra mein, desert se aate huye bhi, Hum log poor-josh se unaka saamna nahin kar paaye ) aur hamaari 30 pedhi puraani, maa-betiyon-baheno ki hi ijjut loot kar, use hraam me rakh kar, haraam ki aulaad paida karte rahe,.. Sainiko se, hamari bahan-betiyon par, group rape karwa kar,… yeh sabhi, aaj ke musal-maan paida kiye,…( jin ke 15-25 pedi ke pahele waale mata-pita hindu the ) ( Jo striyon ko, yeh sab manzoor nahi thaa,.. ve Johar kar ke, agni-snaan kar jal gayi thii,… )

Varna,.. jo, yadi logo ne, full-force mein,.. Shivaji, Prithviraj Chauhan, Rana pratap jaiso ka saath diya hota.....sabhi castes mil-zul kar lade hote,... toh yeh Moghul ghus hi naa paye hote,.. aur ek bhi musalman ya afghaani lahu, hindustaan mein naa hota,… naa Bharat ka dau bhagala padta,… !
aaj yeh puraani Hindu maa o' ke jane,… ek cousin bros ke roop me, humein apno se bhi bheed rahe hai,…
Yeh Kali-yug ki ek Mahbharat hi toh hai,… Paandav aur Kauravon ki….....Jo ki, aakhir cousin brothers hi toh the...

Saudi Arebia ke musal-maan bhi toh,… Yeh Pakistan aur Hindustan mein base ko, shudhdha Muslim nahin maante,…
kyon ki ve bhi jaante hai ki,….. unaki bahoot puraani maa-yein Hindu striyaan thii,,.... aur yeh Hindu ke jane huye sankaran Muslim hai ! Yanee ki, Islaam ke mutabir, Haraam ki aulaad hai,..

.

Last edited by prajapati; February 20th, 2017 at 04:07 PM.
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  #57  
Old February 26th, 2017, 07:47 AM
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Re: Who says Shivaji was not a Shudra?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by RECKER View Post
Shiv Sainiks in Mumbai had protested over a Handbook authored by writer Teesta Setalvad wherein Shivaji has been described as “shudra”. The Handbook forms part of the non-detailed text for additional reading in History subject and has been prepared for students from third standard to sixth standard.
She said she had not altered the facts anywhere and all of them were well documented.
So, Madam Teesta used to write school history before she got involved in Gujarat.
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  #58  
Old August 3rd, 2017, 02:07 AM
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Re: Who says Shivaji was not a Shudra?????

shivaji came from the caste known as 'kunbi' . the word 'kunbi' was a corruption of the marathi word 'kuneebi' which literally means 'anybody' . thus any cultivator of land who was classified as 'shudra' by brahmins could be classified as from 'kunbi' caste .

but 'shudra' does not mean dalit . those who call themselves dalits in the modern age came from castes such as 'mahar' 'mang' etc who cleaned human excreta . a 'kunbi' was a 'shudra' not a dalit . according to ancient hinduism 'shudra' was the lowermost of the four hindu castes , but still he was a hindu . however according to ancient hinduism the 'mahars' 'mangs' etc were outside the pale of hinduism as they did demeaning tasks like cleaning human excreta . they were considered no better than the 'chandals' who stole human corpses and ate them . only after the islamic conquest were the dalits considered to be part of hinduism otherwise they were not a caste but were outcastes and untouchables .

but the 'kunbis' who were 'shudras' were not untouchables or outcastes . a brahmin could touch them without defiling himself . the word 'shudra' is demeaning however ; it means 'amounting to nothing' . thus a 'kunbi' like shivaji amounted to nothing in the eyes of the haughty brahmins . so they were reluctant to do his coronation . he had to invite gaga bhatt from varanasi who was ready to declare shivaji as 'kshatriya' after being bribed by a sum of money .

but the problem was---after parshuram had killed all the 'kshatriyas' in the ancient era there were no 'kshatriyas' left . the only ones who were accepted as 'kshatriya' by brahmins were the rajputs . so shivaji was declared a rajput descended from the most honourable rajput clan---the sisodiyas who had honoured themselves by never giving their daughters to mughals unlike other rajputs .

who shivaji's desperation for his acceptance as 'kshatriya' ? he was desperate to get himself coronated as king in the same manner as lord Ram had been coronated ; indeed the sisodiyas claimed descent from lord Ram . shivaji's intention was to revive the ancient practice of coronation of kings that had been forgotten by hindus in centuries of islamic rule . he wanted to set his kingdom directly as rival and challenger of the mughal empire and his coronation became a grand affair that resonated across india and tomtommed the rise of a hindu kingdom . the lengths to which shivaji went to appease the truculent brahmins is not short of statesmanlike ; others would have lost patience at their haughty demeanour . and only the brahmins could coronate him as king ; only their acceptance of shivaji as king would convince the common people that a king had been born among them---for the common people were totally under the influence of brahmins . and shivaji succeeded where lesser mortals would have failed.

---ashdoc .
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  #59  
Old August 3rd, 2017, 03:04 AM
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Re: Who says Shivaji was not a Shudra?????

Shivaji's Grandfather, Maloji Raje Bhonsle claimed that the Bhonsles were descendents of the Sisodiyas, a clan of Rajputs, from Rajasthan.
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  #60  
Old August 3rd, 2017, 07:48 AM
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Re: Who says Shivaji was not a Shudra?????

How could a person be degraded on the basis of our orthodox human-society based, labeled, - sheedy caste and creed? - My mind just denies to accept it !!

On the "Holi" ( festival ) occasion,.. if you have seen “Holi” burning at its full-flame,.. you will also see,…some unburnt, half-burnt pieces of small coal, splashed from it... and are thrown, a little away and apart n’ aside from it,…

Big burning Holi is the Sun,… thrown away small coal cum ashes pieces are Earth, Mars, Venus, Jupiter and such,…. And we are extremely micro-mini viruses surviving on those pieces,

So, we all are the same ” star-dusts ” material,... containing the same ingredients, configuration n' constitution,…and our skin, body, bones, veins, Blood, Organs, meat,..... are all part and particles of the same original substance,…

Now where the hell the part comes of,… Shudra and Brahmin and high caste and low caste, bodies and its material,...scientifically ?

I would call a person dheda or Vaaghari only if he achieved it by..... performance, acts, life-styled, thoughts, way of living, rahan-sahan, Reeti-Riwaaz, Boli, Haal-Chaal, Haav-Bhaav, Vesh-bhusha, Pahervesh, manners, Attitude, Aptitude, Tameez, Tehzeeb, chaal-chalgat..........and in all such other styles,..



Last edited by log1iszero; August 3rd, 2017 at 08:09 AM.
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