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  #16  
Old January 8th, 2019, 09:57 PM
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Re: what do u guys think about the 10% Economically backward among Upper Castes

Reservations, if at all, should only be on economic/financial status. But nothing positive will come of it because in India the voters and so the politicians are all into reservations for every caste, tribe, sect, cult, etc etc.

I guess the government should just say all are in reserved categories except Brahmins. And even then the voters will not be satisfied. Everyone wants reservations and reserved government jobs. Unfortunately for India, the Congress party got the voters into this habit of hand outs, freebies and assured jobs. Now our people are so used to this that nothing will change.

Some politician had suggested that those who get reservation and a government job should not be allowed to apply for same benefits for their children. The aim of reservations is to uplift the backward and provide a proper government job. Once that happens, the benefits of reservation should be stopped for the next generation.

Offcourse, such a good middle-of-the-road idea would never be allowed to survive nor be implemented.

So kuch nahi hoga.. all want freebies.
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  #17  
Old January 9th, 2019, 04:33 AM
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Re: what do u guys think about the 10% Economically backward among Upper Castes

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Originally Posted by BABU_HYDERABADI View Post
have you ever seen how a school in some of Indian's districts look like? How can you expect someone who comes from such foundation to take on a english private school?.

We need some sort of reservation, but not like directly giving them like they do now. rather we need to be able to add certain amount of extra marks for students who come from certain locations and economic status.

Also everyone should be graded on the same scale.

I cannot get my head around most things you wrote Babu. starting from the last -
grade everyone on some scale - yet have some sort of reservation - to me these are contradictions. How can you grade everyone on same scale yet provide reservation (meaning allow people from certain castes irrespective of grades they have?)?
You talk about people from schools from certain Indian districts not being able to compete with Private English schools - I don't see the relevance. My batch mates in engineering had studied in Marathi medium through out their life and still got through engineering.
So you say, we add some extra marks to results of people coming from certain Indian district schools (which cannot compete with private english schools) and get them into an institute for higher education (how is that grading on same scale?) - if you are grading them on same scale AFTER they come into the higher education institution - how do you expect them to fare given their weak foundations and grace marks which got them there? their supposed disadvantage is not going to go away just by giving them some extra marks...

We need them to be able to genuinely compete with everyone else - medium of instruction may be important, but not as much as mental ability or merit. we need a mechanism to evaluate the merit and then help such people get through education without having to worry about tuition fees or cost of notebooks or hostels....
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Old January 9th, 2019, 04:39 AM
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Re: what do u guys think about the 10% Economically backward among Upper Castes

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Originally Posted by Sane Less View Post
Anthropological studies have always shown that reservations have always been a bane... never a boon. Reservations may be useful for a short-term. And that is exactly how they should be used... reservations should be used (by individuals) to get out of the reservations-class. Once out of it, stop using it. But if used generations after generations, all you are doing is weakening yourself... and your society. And a weak society never lasts long.

Instead of looking at becoming rich individuals... we should strive to become a rich society. A rich society usually means wealthy individuals. And being wealthy is different than being rich.
I reckon we agree and disagree at the same time. Short term for me in this context is not length of time - but length of time per person/family... if reservations have provided better life to one person in one part of the country does not mean its benefits have reached the entire country. Reservation for the same set of people all the time is definitely a bane.

either way, since Independence we have come far, it really is time to ditch reservations... and perhaps think of an alternative.
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  #19  
Old January 9th, 2019, 07:43 AM
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Re: what do u guys think about the 10% Economically backward among Upper Castes

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Originally Posted by kkkk View Post
I cannot get my head around most things you wrote Babu. starting from the last -
grade everyone on some scale - yet have some sort of reservation - to me these are contradictions. How can you grade everyone on same scale yet provide reservation (meaning allow people from certain castes irrespective of grades they have?)?
You talk about people from schools from certain Indian districts not being able to compete with Private English schools - I don't see the relevance. My batch mates in engineering had studied in Marathi medium through out their life and still got through engineering.
So you say, we add some extra marks to results of people coming from certain Indian district schools (which cannot compete with private english schools) and get them into an institute for higher education (how is that grading on same scale?) - if you are grading them on same scale AFTER they come into the higher education institution - how do you expect them to fare given their weak foundations and grace marks which got them there? their supposed disadvantage is not going to go away just by giving them some extra marks...

We need them to be able to genuinely compete with everyone else - medium of instruction may be important, but not as much as mental ability or merit. we need a mechanism to evaluate the merit and then help such people get through education without having to worry about tuition fees or cost of notebooks or hostels....
when i say grade everyone on the same scale means do not have separate ranking or exam for quota candidates.

Just by providing them with free education, hostel and books is not going to be sufficient. How can you build a strong building if the foundation is week. You talk about Marathi Medium students in your engineering class, can you tell me what was the proportion of Marathi medium students to English medium students throughout Maharashtra and what was that ratio in your engineering class.

How can you have one single test to test the caliber of a son of a engineer and a son of a peon?? Without taking socioeconomic conditions of students before enrolling them in to professional courses, we cannot make a proper society.
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  #20  
Old January 9th, 2019, 08:46 AM
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Re: what do u guys think about the 10% Economically backward among Upper Castes

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Originally Posted by BABU_HYDERABADI View Post
when i say grade everyone on the same scale means do not have separate ranking or exam for quota candidates.

Just by providing them with free education, hostel and books is not going to be sufficient. How can you build a strong building if the foundation is week. You talk about Marathi Medium students in your engineering class, can you tell me what was the proportion of Marathi medium students to English medium students throughout Maharashtra and what was that ratio in your engineering class.

How can you have one single test to test the caliber of a son of a engineer and a son of a peon?? Without taking socioeconomic conditions of students before enrolling them in to professional courses, we cannot make a proper society.
I consider education to be the foundation. so yes, with free or subsidised education, the future will be stronger. "Mechanism to evaluate merit" does not mean one single test. I wont go into your question around proportion of non-english medium students in my Engineering class - that is besides the point which I was making - that medium of instruction is not as important as merit.

so at the end of this, what are you suggesting? add extra marks for socio-economic background - bhai, how will that help? you will just chuck in students with weak foundations alongside those that have had better chances in life...
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  #21  
Old January 9th, 2019, 09:15 AM
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Re: what do u guys think about the 10% Economically backward among Upper Castes

The thing that is most confusing is... how can one say proudly that s/he is in a "Reserved" category This is similar to saying that one is "Mentally deranged" or a "Nitwit". Reservation should be reserved only for the needy... but once you avail of it, you should not qualify for it again ever in the same life.

So, if you got into a good education system based on "reservation" then you cannot use the same card again for employment. If you never had reservation in your entire education... for e.g., you came from a district/area where there was no proper schooling system... then you can use "reservation" for your job. But this should be limited to one job. If you switch from it, you cannot use the "reservation" card again.

People who use "reservation" card time and again should be shamed. Should be laughed at. Should be treated as untouchables... as indeed, they are the real shudras.
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  #22  
Old January 9th, 2019, 10:04 AM
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Re: what do u guys think about the 10% Economically backward among Upper Castes

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Originally Posted by BABU_HYDERABADI View Post
If you consider 26% of Hindu Upper Caste, 2% Christian, 15% Muslim, 2% Sikh comes to a total of 45%. More than 90% of these individuals come under this quota.
And they are all earning less then 8 lacs a year and live in a house less then 1000 Sq. Feet.
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  #23  
Old January 9th, 2019, 08:48 PM
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Re: what do u guys think about the 10% Economically backward among Upper Castes

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But if you read Toilet of India , they are using upper class word, which is wrong. There are people that arr not upper class Brahmins but they are poor. This would benefit them. But most advantage would be for Muslims. Majority of muslims in INdia are below poverty line.

Why not call it Poor Muslim reservation bill ? My anger is towards media that is so fucked up.
Have you read the bill?
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  #24  
Old January 10th, 2019, 01:33 AM
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Re: what do u guys think about the 10% Economically backward among Upper Castes

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Have you read the bill?
If you have read it sir, please enlighten us...
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Old January 10th, 2019, 01:40 AM
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Re: what do u guys think about the 10% Economically backward among Upper Castes

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Originally Posted by Sane Less View Post
The thing that is most confusing is... how can one say proudly that s/he is in a "Reserved" category This is similar to saying that one is "Mentally deranged" or a "Nitwit". Reservation should be reserved only for the needy... but once you avail of it, you should not qualify for it again ever in the same life.

So, if you got into a good education system based on "reservation" then you cannot use the same card again for employment. If you never had reservation in your entire education... for e.g., you came from a district/area where there was no proper schooling system... then you can use "reservation" for your job. But this should be limited to one job. If you switch from it, you cannot use the "reservation" card again.

People who use "reservation" card time and again should be shamed. Should be laughed at. Should be treated as untouchables... as indeed, they are the real shudras.
I used to be confused with this too. Its like, I remember when I was young, anybody who was involved in corruption was looked down on by the society - vo adami (for women were not as involved in these transactions) paise KHATA hai! but in the world of today, this is so accepted that people who are not corrupt are looked down on by the society!
so all are nangas in the hamam - pride stems from herd mentality or insecurity of being left out of the picture. Looks wrong to me, this situation and the bill to reserve on the basis of economic status seems like a small and a valid start to turn the tide around.
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Old January 10th, 2019, 09:11 AM
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Re: what do u guys think about the 10% Economically backward among Upper Castes

^^ only word that comes to mind is... Kaljug. This is the kaljug that puranhas were talking about. Kawa chale hans ki caal
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Old January 10th, 2019, 01:26 PM
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Re: what do u guys think about the 10% Economically backward among Upper Castes

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^^ only word that comes to mind is... Kaljug. This is the kaljug that puranhas were talking about. Kawa chale hans ki caal
This is waht Har Har was talking about.
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Old January 10th, 2019, 01:28 PM
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Re: what do u guys think about the 10% Economically backward among Upper Castes

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If you have read it sir, please enlighten us...
Waiting .........
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Old January 11th, 2019, 07:33 AM
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Re: what do u guys think about the 10% Economically backward among Upper Castes

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Waiting .........
I am waiting for you. You were the one who said that MSM is wrong in classifying it as caste based.
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Old January 11th, 2019, 08:20 AM
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Re: what do u guys think about the 10% Economically backward among Upper Castes

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I am waiting for you. You were the one who said that MSM is wrong in classifying it as caste based.
I looked it up on net and it seems dirty is right.

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/stor...565-2019-01-08

There are several other websites also but you get the point.
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