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  #1  
Old November 23rd, 2015, 12:58 PM
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Radical Islam is mainstream Islam!

Radical Islam is rooted in Islamic scriptures and is a dominant force within the beliefs of the majority of practicing Muslims.

Radical Islamic movements flourish in authoritarian and anarchic conditions where they seek to exploit the poor, the oppressed, and the impressionable. There are Islamic extremists who are healthy, wealthy, well-educated, have never seen a Jew, and were born in post-colonial societies who long for a caliphate or strive to impose sharia law.

Even more striking is that there are Islamic extremists who were raised in comfortable homes in the liberal West — who still join al Qaeda and the Islamic State. Ahmad Abousamra, who reportedly runs the Islamic State’s social media operations, is the son of an endocrinologist, was raised in the middle-class suburb of Stoughton in Boston, attended a private school, and graduated from Northeastern University. Aafia Siddiqui studied neuroscience and obtained her doctorate from Brandeis before she joined al Qaeda.

Radical Islamic movements are the consequence of a worldview based on the teachings of the Prophet Mohammed. The teachings based on a particular vision of what constitutes a just society and of what God requires of his followers.

Prophet Mohammed had proclaimed a monotheistic spiritual value system. Mohammed led numerous military expeditions and provided these with religious justification. This reflected the tribal culture and values of the time. Unfortunately, as Islam was codified into official schools of religious law (madhahib),

What exactly is mainstream Islam? The official schools of Sunni religious law — the Maliki, Hanbali, Shafii, and Hanafi schools — are all mainstream among Sunni Muslims. Ibn Khaldun, a scholar of the Maliki school, wrote that “holy war is a religious duty.”

Ibn Taymiyyah of the Hanbali school wrote that jihad “is the finest thing in this world.” And "Reliance of the Traveller", the well-known Shafii handbook of religious law certified as authoritative by Al-Azhar University in Egypt, the world’s most prestigious Sunni institution, approves of violent jihad.

It is true that Shiite Islam offers more flexibility, in theory, for new interpretations. Yet Ayatollah Khomeini’s call for jihad led thousands of Iranian children to sacrifice their lives, and his Shiite successors have refused to distance themselves from his teachings.
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Old November 23rd, 2015, 03:39 PM
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Re: Radical Islam is mainstream Islam!

Yes, agreed 100%. All those 999 million others who are not radical islamists, actually have no right to call themselves muslims. They follow a perverted version of Islam which has nothing to do with Mohammed and his teachings.
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Old November 23rd, 2015, 07:55 PM
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Re: Radical Islam is mainstream Islam!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalidas View Post
Radical Islam is rooted in Islamic scriptures and is a dominant force within the beliefs of the majority of practicing Muslims.

Radical Islamic movements flourish in authoritarian and anarchic conditions where they seek to exploit the poor, the oppressed, and the impressionable. There are Islamic extremists who are healthy, wealthy, well-educated, have never seen a Jew, and were born in post-colonial societies who long for a caliphate or strive to impose sharia law.

Even more striking is that there are Islamic extremists who were raised in comfortable homes in the liberal West — who still join al Qaeda and the Islamic State. Ahmad Abousamra, who reportedly runs the Islamic State’s social media operations, is the son of an endocrinologist, was raised in the middle-class suburb of Stoughton in Boston, attended a private school, and graduated from Northeastern University. Aafia Siddiqui studied neuroscience and obtained her doctorate from Brandeis before she joined al Qaeda.

Radical Islamic movements are the consequence of a worldview based on the teachings of the Prophet Mohammed. The teachings based on a particular vision of what constitutes a just society and of what God requires of his followers.

Prophet Mohammed had proclaimed a monotheistic spiritual value system. Mohammed led numerous military expeditions and provided these with religious justification. This reflected the tribal culture and values of the time. Unfortunately, as Islam was codified into official schools of religious law (madhahib),

What exactly is mainstream Islam? The official schools of Sunni religious law — the Maliki, Hanbali, Shafii, and Hanafi schools — are all mainstream among Sunni Muslims. Ibn Khaldun, a scholar of the Maliki school, wrote that “holy war is a religious duty.”

Ibn Taymiyyah of the Hanbali school wrote that jihad “is the finest thing in this world.” And "Reliance of the Traveller", the well-known Shafii handbook of religious law certified as authoritative by Al-Azhar University in Egypt, the world’s most prestigious Sunni institution, approves of violent jihad.

It is true that Shiite Islam offers more flexibility, in theory, for new interpretations. Yet Ayatollah Khomeini’s call for jihad led thousands of Iranian children to sacrifice their lives, and his Shiite successors have refused to distance themselves from his teachings.
%wise, such muslims are very less (compared to the total absolute number of those raised in liberal comfortable environs). However, they (should) connect at the point that the evil kafir has, since ever & forever, conspired against the only true, last & final divine revelation (If they don't, they are not really peacefuls). Then they do their own jihads - one by taking up arms & other by sympathizing with them & pretending to be "moderate". The latter are far more dangerous.
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Old November 23rd, 2015, 08:41 PM
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Re: Radical Islam is mainstream Islam!

I have thought of this topic on and off. Read a bit about it. But I am no expert. Just a bystander.

I think its like this. Every person at some point of time in their lifetime get urges which are really aweful and outright illegal. For example, you are pisssed off at someone who has been harassing you or has caused you great emotional distress. For example, someone in your close circle of friends or family has betrayed you and cheated you out of what is rightfully yours. Or has taken away the opportunity you deserve to get what you want. You have been put at a terrible loss not just financially but emotionally and otherwise.

You want to kill that person. You boil over with rage and would do anything horrible to that person.

But you just get over it because you know it would be illegal, you know it would be wrong, you know that it would land you in trouble, you know that your family and society wont accept it, etc etc.


Now imagine, the same situation where you have these urges and rage. And there is complete support for such urges. Complete encouragement to act out your rage. So much so that your mind is 'trained' to focus all such rage into a systematic outburst where the terrible outcome is condoned and applauded. What would you do?

I am sure that you would think twice. Any sane normal person would think twice.

I dont know where I am going with this but I think you understand what I am saying
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Old November 24th, 2015, 05:43 AM
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Re: Radical Islam is mainstream Islam!

Quote:
Originally Posted by echarcha View Post
I have thought of this topic on and off. Read a bit about it. But I am no expert. Just a bystander.

I think its like this. Every person at some point of time in their lifetime get urges which are really aweful and outright illegal. For example, you are pisssed off at someone who has been harassing you or has caused you great emotional distress. For example, someone in your close circle of friends or family has betrayed you and cheated you out of what is rightfully yours. Or has taken away the opportunity you deserve to get what you want. You have been put at a terrible loss not just financially but emotionally and otherwise.

You want to kill that person. You boil over with rage and would do anything horrible to that person.

But you just get over it because you know it would be illegal, you know it would be wrong, you know that it would land you in trouble, you know that your family and society wont accept it, etc etc.


Now imagine, the same situation where you have these urges and rage. And there is complete support for such urges. Complete encouragement to act out your rage. So much so that your mind is 'trained' to focus all such rage into a systematic outburst where the terrible outcome is condoned and applauded. What would you do?

I am sure that you would think twice. Any sane normal person would think twice.

I dont know where I am going with this but I think you understand what I am saying
I posted snippets from this article in my above post:
http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/11/11/...l-omar-debate/

It's from Foreign Policy journal. Some points really resonated with my thinking:

There are many millions of peaceful Muslims in the world who do not wage jihad. Yet the fundamental problem is that the majority of otherwise peaceful and law-abiding Muslims are unwilling to acknowledge, much less repudiate, the theological warrant for intolerance and violence embedded in their own religious texts. Reformist Muslims who wish to change “mainstream” doctrine are often referred to with contempt as “those who indulge in innovations and follow their passions.”

Mainstream Islam today is simply not like any other religion. In contrast to Christianity, which distinguished between worldly power and spiritual authority, in Islam the boundary between the civil and the religious has always been deeply problematic and remains so today. Mohammed was, after all, lawgiver, warlord, and prophet.

The war with what is often called “radical Islam” is primarily a war of ideas. Such a conflict cannot be won by military means alone. It will require “mainstream Islam” to formally renounce Mohammed’s period in Medina. Such an act of religious reform will require a concerted effort from within the House of Islam.

--

These are views from a Muslim writer .... for what its worth! Not mine.
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Old November 24th, 2015, 08:27 AM
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Re: Radical Islam is mainstream Islam!

Quote:
Originally Posted by echarcha View Post
I have thought of this topic on and off. Read a bit about it. But I am no expert. Just a bystander.

I think its like this. Every person at some point of time in their lifetime get urges which are really aweful and outright illegal. For example, you are pisssed off at someone who has been harassing you or has caused you great emotional distress. For example, someone in your close circle of friends or family has betrayed you and cheated you out of what is rightfully yours. Or has taken away the opportunity you deserve to get what you want. You have been put at a terrible loss not just financially but emotionally and otherwise.

You want to kill that person. You boil over with rage and would do anything horrible to that person.

But you just get over it because you know it would be illegal, you know it would be wrong, you know that it would land you in trouble, you know that your family and society wont accept it, etc etc.


Now imagine, the same situation where you have these urges and rage. And there is complete support for such urges. Complete encouragement to act out your rage. So much so that your mind is 'trained' to focus all such rage into a systematic outburst where the terrible outcome is condoned and applauded. What would you do?

I am sure that you would think twice. Any sane normal person would think twice.

I dont know where I am going with this but I think you understand what I am saying
Absolutely.

In countries like India where "rakshak is bhakshak", its normal for any sane person to get extremely pissed off. ROP gives legitimacy to act on this rage. Which is NOT entirely wrong.

However, under the burqa of this 'religious legitimacy', it has its own agenda to fulfil. It is obvious. Because, a person who instantly acts on his rage, rarely contributes in long term improvement of the situation (such that others don't face similar situation). And ROP claims to be the best forever. What a hypocritic divine revelation. Even mortals do better that this.

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Last edited by PeaceSeeker; November 24th, 2015 at 08:55 AM.
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Old November 24th, 2015, 10:38 AM
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Re: Radical Islam is mainstream Islam!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorro View Post
Yes, agreed 100%. All those 999 million others who are not radical islamists, actually have no right to call themselves muslims. They follow a perverted version of Islam which has nothing to do with Mohammed and his teachings.
You do understand Zoroor pai, that the population of peaceful people is about 2 billion. By your calculations, we are in deep sh*gar

But adjusting to your argument, you do realize that it takes just a guy or two to bring the entire village name down... don't you Especially if the bad guy acts in the name of the village. As they say, it does take a village to educate one person.
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Old November 24th, 2015, 10:56 AM
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Re: Radical Islam is mainstream Islam!

I believe lot of confusion regarding Islam is prevalent Not just here But worldwide, I would try to clear these confusions at-least here, In the end It would be better for everyone.

What is Islam ?

Islam would literary translate into 'Submitting once will to Allah'.

Who would be considered a Muslim ?

To be a Momin (Translate in to Believer, It was the term used frequently into Quran and Hadith Rather than term Muslim) one must believe in One God (who been called by various names in Various culture and referred as Allah in Islam), One Must believe that Muhammad SAW is Allah's last messenger and to believe in All Prophets (referred by different term across the world) and respect them. One Must believe in Quran as message of God to mankind, One must believe that all the other prophets also brought Message of God to mankind. One must believe in Angels and Devil, Heaven and Hell and Day of resurrection when All Humans will be raised again By Lord and their deeds will be judged and according to their deeds they will enter Heaven or Hell.

Why I believe Islam as ability of encompassing all original faiths and living harmoniously ( I am not talking about Muslims)

Islam believes there is Only One God and it's clearly mentioned that He has sent his messengers to every part of world for every nation, every time. Total number of Messengers God has sent in this world is 1,24,000. However only 25 of them are mentioned by name in Quran. So every nation had their own messenger of God sent to them, So God treats everyone equally and no country is superior to other. It's clearly mentioned in Quran to respect all the messengers and not to discriminate among them, So Every Messenger has to be respected as Prophet Muhammad SAW. People across various countries might have started calling messengers by different terms, for i.e. Avtar, Tirthankar etc.

As there are only 25 messengers mentioned in Quran by name (There number is clearly mentioned as 1,24,000) we can't be sure about whom would be considered as Prophets born in India, But there are clear signs for wise people to see. Shri Krishna who is considered as 'Sampurn Avtar' can clearly be a Prophet born in India, and Gita might be message revealed through him, Another evidence can be found in Teaching of Prophet Muhammad SAW where he said that every prophet once in his lifetime worked as a Shepherd (Al-though This English word would only mean one who tends sheep But Hindi as well as in Arabic it would mean someone who tends to animals like Cow, Buffalo, Camel, Goat or Sheep) And we all know That Shri Krishna loved and tend to cows.

So Every country had prophets and every Muslim MUST respect all of them, Hardliners might argue that they can't be sure about who was a prophet or not since out of 1,24,000 only 25 prophet's names are mentioned in Quran But they forget that It's also mentioned clearly mentioned in Quran that a believer should never abuse/say bad things about anyone Non-Muslims are worshiping or revering. So Irrespective of whether Hardliners believe anyone to be prophet or not, They can't say bad things about them.

So with little understanding and mutual respect, people of every religion should live perfectly under a rule in accordance of Islam ( Not happening anywhere in Islamic countries these days). It's a Muslim rulers duty to safeguards lives, property and honor of his non Muslim subjects and Prophet clearly warned Muslims against causing atrocities against Non Muslims. ( I have not heard it but read it myself, So you can be sure irrespective of what hate mongers say)


How extremists of both sides misused word 'Jihad' for materialistic gains ?

Jihad would be literally translate as 'To Struggle' It can be Greater (Internal) and Minor (external). But Since most of the world is concerned with external one only I will discuss only that here.

Again Same verse of Quran been misquoted by extremists of both sides for their materialistic gain, Those verses were revealed when Muslim were severely outnumbered and under attack by tribes from Mecca. In those verses God allowed them to fight in self defense with several restrictions which are as Following
* Not to Kill Children
* Not to kill women
* Not to Kill old people
* Not to kill any able bodied man Not fighting you
* Not to cut down green trees
* Not to destroy people's homes, establishments

Even Those who were Fighting Muslims and died were to be treated with respect, those who been captured were advised to be released after receiving Sum of money as payment of damages. (every losing country has paid reparation directly or indirectly even in Today's world to so called civilized developed countries)

I believe even Geneva Convention can't be fairer and every war which broke out in last 1000 years broke almost every rule of it. It was only been followed properly in time of prophet and 4 true Khalifa after prophet. After that people who seek worldly things took Caliphate in their hands and Islamic world fall into hands of kings.

It's just some basic points I touched, I am free to your queries in order to clear misconception and promote peace and Harmony.
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Old November 24th, 2015, 11:28 AM
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Re: Radical Islam is mainstream Islam!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dovahkiin View Post
I believe lot of confusion regarding Islam is prevalent Not just here But worldwide, I would try to clear these confusions at-least here, In the end It would be better for everyone.

What is Islam ?

Islam would literary translate into 'Submitting once will to Allah'.

Who would be considered a Muslim ?

To be a Momin (Translate in to Believer, It was the term used frequently into Quran and Hadith Rather than term Muslim) one must believe in One God (who been called by various names in Various culture and referred as Allah in Islam), One Must believe that Muhammad SAW is Allah's last messenger and to believe in All Prophets (referred by different term across the world) and respect them. One Must believe in Quran as message of God to mankind, One must believe that all the other prophets also brought Message of God to mankind. One must believe in Angels and Devil, Heaven and Hell and Day of resurrection when All Humans will be raised again By Lord and their deeds will be judged and according to their deeds they will enter Heaven or Hell.

Why I believe Islam as ability of encompassing all original faiths and living harmoniously ( I am not talking about Muslims)

Islam believes there is Only One God and it's clearly mentioned that He has sent his messengers to every part of world for every nation, every time. Total number of Messengers God has sent in this world is 1,24,000. However only 25 of them are mentioned by name in Quran. So every nation had their own messenger of God sent to them, So God treats everyone equally and no country is superior to other. It's clearly mentioned in Quran to respect all the messengers and not to discriminate among them, So Every Messenger has to be respected as Prophet Muhammad SAW. People across various countries might have started calling messengers by different terms, for i.e. Avtar, Tirthankar etc.

As there are only 25 messengers mentioned in Quran by name (There number is clearly mentioned as 1,24,000) we can't be sure about whom would be considered as Prophets born in India, But there are clear signs for wise people to see. Shri Krishna who is considered as 'Sampurn Avtar' can clearly be a Prophet born in India, and Gita might be message revealed through him, Another evidence can be found in Teaching of Prophet Muhammad SAW where he said that every prophet once in his lifetime worked as a Shepherd (Al-though This English word would only mean one who tends sheep But Hindi as well as in Arabic it would mean someone who tends to animals like Cow, Buffalo, Camel, Goat or Sheep) And we all know That Shri Krishna loved and tend to cows.

So Every country had prophets and every Muslim MUST respect all of them, Hardliners might argue that they can't be sure about who was a prophet or not since out of 1,24,000 only 25 prophet's names are mentioned in Quran But they forget that It's also mentioned clearly mentioned in Quran that a believer should never abuse/say bad things about anyone Non-Muslims are worshiping or revering. So Irrespective of whether Hardliners believe anyone to be prophet or not, They can't say bad things about them.

So with little understanding and mutual respect, people of every religion should live perfectly under a rule in accordance of Islam ( Not happening anywhere in Islamic countries these days). It's a Muslim rulers duty to safeguards lives, property and honor of his non Muslim subjects and Prophet clearly warned Muslims against causing atrocities against Non Muslims. ( I have not heard it but read it myself, So you can be sure irrespective of what hate mongers say)


How extremists of both sides misused word 'Jihad' for materialistic gains ?

Jihad would be literally translate as 'To Struggle' It can be Greater (Internal) and Minor (external). But Since most of the world is concerned with external one only I will discuss only that here.

Again Same verse of Quran been misquoted by extremists of both sides for their materialistic gain, Those verses were revealed when Muslim were severely outnumbered and under attack by tribes from Mecca. In those verses God allowed them to fight in self defense with several restrictions which are as Following
* Not to Kill Children
* Not to kill women
* Not to Kill old people
* Not to kill any able bodied man Not fighting you
* Not to cut down green trees
* Not to destroy people's homes, establishments

Even Those who were Fighting Muslims and died were to be treated with respect, those who been captured were advised to be released after receiving Sum of money as payment of damages. (every losing country has paid reparation directly or indirectly even in Today's world to so called civilized developed countries)

I believe even Geneva Convention can't be fairer and every war which broke out in last 1000 years broke almost every rule of it. It was only been followed properly in time of prophet and 4 true Khalifa after prophet. After that people who seek worldly things took Caliphate in their hands and Islamic world fall into hands of kings.

It's just some basic points I touched, I am free to your queries in order to clear misconception and promote peace and Harmony.
Do you think this is what mainstream Islam believes in? Especially about Krishna being a prophet? Really? Or are you trying to start a new religion?
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Old November 24th, 2015, 12:06 PM
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Re: Radical Islam is mainstream Islam!

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Originally Posted by kalidas View Post
Do you think this is what mainstream Islam believes in? Especially about Krishna being a prophet? Really? Or are you trying to start a new religion?
According to Mainstream Islam, There is no doubt that prophets were sent in every country If they don't believe this, They can't be Muslims as it's mentioned in Quran and any Muslim doubting anything said in Quran is not a Muslim.

However We can't say conclusively as only 25 prophets names were mentioned in Quran, But it also can't be denied that India had prophets here and Shri Krishna had a Book ( Gita) wihich shares many Similarity with verses of Quran and Prophet Muhammad also taught that every prophet once in his lifetime been a shepherd, So even according to Islam closest we can get to knowing name of prophets who came in India could be Shri Krishna.

One of my father's Muslim friend with Sufi inclination said that Krishna Must be one of the Prophet sent to India by God.
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Last edited by Dovahkiin; November 24th, 2015 at 12:15 PM.
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Old November 24th, 2015, 03:35 PM
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Re: Radical Islam is mainstream Islam!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dovahkiin View Post
...

What is Islam ?

Islam would literary translate into 'Submitting once will to Allah'.
You are correct. And I do not like submitting my will to anyone... even if it is an all powerful and ever-present deity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dovahkiin View Post
Who would be considered a Muslim ?

To be a Momin (Translate in to Believer, It was the term used frequently into Quran and Hadith Rather than term Muslim) one must believe in One God (who been called by various names in Various culture and referred as Allah in Islam), ...
I personally would like to believe in lots of gods... and goddesses. You see, like a big and happy family up there in the skies. Always smiling and singing and dancing and drinking wine. Absolutely... that is how I want my gods and goddesses to be.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dovahkiin View Post
Why I believe Islam as ability of encompassing all original faiths and living harmoniously ( I am not talking about Muslims)
And because of my previous para... I do not care what you believe in. I respect what you believe in... and you have every right to believe in it. But I do not care... and please do not start your bonga every morning and four more times a day. And also do not raise your arse up in the air in the middle of the road. You may not have any danger... no not from me... but a peaceful female might want to think twice (btw, how come peaceful females do not pray in the middle of the road).
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Old December 2nd, 2015, 07:25 AM
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Re: Radical Islam is mainstream Islam!

Quote:
Moderates & scholars of ROP consider ROP as a peaceful religion which allows violence & attacks in certain "contexts" like self-defence or as a retaliation for injustice etc.

As per them, all the terrorist groups like ISIS, AQ, Boko Haram, etc. etc. (list is very long) are using ROP as a tool and damaging its image etc. In short, they are attacking the "spirit of ROP"

Considering that ROP allows to attack when under attack, the scholars & "vast majority of moderates" should attack these terrorists since they are attacking ROP, maligning ROP, defaming ROP, using ROP, politicising ROP etc. ROP is under attack by terrorists and it is the moral obligation of the "vast majority of moderates" to attack the attackers of ROP.

Attacking the attackers is not only morally obligated but also a guarantee of divine rewards.

If the vast majority of moderates do not attack the attackers of ROP, they are not retaliating against the injustuce being done to ROP. Its a big sin & for this, it shall burn in hellfire.
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  #13  
Old April 11th, 2016, 01:00 PM
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Re: Radical Islam is mainstream Islam!

Whatever happened to this thread I mean, Dovakhaana pai posted so many mistruths in his long post above... he posted and he ran away. I had just started in my response... was waiting for a rebuttal... but he just ran away. Now what is going to happen to all these mistruths that he posted
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Old February 17th, 2017, 12:40 PM
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Re: Radical Islam is mainstream Islam!

Result of inbreeding? Now who will believe hate crimes against Muslims?

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