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  #1  
Old October 27th, 2004, 08:22 PM
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A Person's maturity is the sum total of his/her life experiences

This is one of the dialogues from Richard Linklater's movie "Before Sunset" ...

This made me rethink about what maturity is (also DB's recent post about "kya Life hai meri?") ? Are we really the sum of our life time of experiences ? I heard from someone that a person carries the innocence he/she had during his/her childhood and that all the mistakes that happen are just some negative reactions (due to that innocence) to difficult situations ... Or is it that, as we age, somethings that were important to us now feel worthless and that is a sign of maturity ... What is maturity ? Is it the difference in our attitudes, our philisophy, our rationale, that we experience every New Year's day ?

Let's explore this ... Please put forward your experiences that have stemmed out of some real life situations ...

--LandYA

P.S. where is tantu ? Rakhi sey dikha nahi voh ?
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  #2  
Old October 27th, 2004, 11:57 PM
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This would automatically mean every old man is smart! I don't think so!
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  #3  
Old October 28th, 2004, 03:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by videsee
This would automatically mean every old man is smart! I don't think so!
I think Maturity is like an Artificial Intelligent type program ... The more it learns the better it would be in making balanced decisions ... Now if it learns from its own mistakes or the mistakes of its aquaitances is upto the program ...

Its like what my advisor says ... Its better to learn from other's mistakes than from your own ...

An old man though highly experienced has less of an opportunity to correct those same mistakes but has highly valuable information that can make a novice tackle a similar situation in a smart way ...

--LandYA
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  #4  
Old October 28th, 2004, 10:42 AM
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Cool What is life?


cintam aparimeyam ca
pralayantam upasritah
kamopabhoga-parama
etavad iti niscitah

asa-pasa-satair baddhah
kama-krodha-parayanah
ihante kama-bhogartham
anyayenartha-sancayan

WORD FOR WORD

cintam--fears and anxieties; aparimeyam--immeasurable; ca--and;
pralaya-antam--unto the point of death; upasritah--having taken
shelter of; kama-upabhoga--sense gratification; paramah--the
highest goal of life; etavat--thus; iti--in this way;
niscitah--having ascertained; asa-pasa--entanglements in a network
of hope; sataih--by hundreds; baddhah--being bound; kama--of lust;
krodha--and anger; parayanah--always situated in the mentality;
ihante--they desire; kama--lust; bhoga--sense enjoyment;
artham--for the purpose of; anyayena--illegally; artha--of wealth;
sancayan--accumulation.

TRANSLATION

They believe that to gratify the senses is the prime necessity of
human civilization. Thus until the end of life their anxiety is
immeasurable. Bound by a network of hundreds of thousands of
desires and absorbed in lust and anger, they secure money by
illegal means for sense gratification.

PURPORT

The demoniac accept that the enjoyment of the senses is the
ultimate goal of life, and this concept they maintain until death.
They do not believe in life after death, and they do not believe
that one takes on different types of bodies according to one's
karma, or activities in this world. Their plans for life are never
finished, and they go on preparing plan after plan, all of which
are never finished. We have personal experience of a person of such
demoniac mentality who, even at the point of death, was requesting
the physician to prolong his life for four years more because his
plans were not yet complete. Such foolish people do not know that a
physician cannot prolong life even for a moment. When the notice is
there, there is no consideration of the man's desire. The laws of
nature do not allow a second beyond what one is destined to enjoy.

The demoniac person, who has no faith in God or the Supersoul
within himself, performs all kinds of sinful activities simply for
sense gratification. He does not know that there is a witness
sitting within his heart. The Supersoul is observing the activities
of the individual soul. As it is stated in the Upanisads, there are
two birds sitting in one tree; one is acting and enjoying or
suffering the fruits of the branches, and the other is witnessing.
But one who is demoniac has no knowledge of Vedic scripture, nor
has he any faith; therefore he feels free to do anything for sense
enjoyment, regardless of the consequences.
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  #5  
Old October 28th, 2004, 10:44 AM
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kamam asritya duspuram
dambha-mana-madanvitah
mohad grhitvasad-grahan
pravartante 'suci-vratah

WORD FOR WORD

kamam--lust; asritya--taking shelter of; duspuram--insatiable;
dambha--of pride; mana--and false prestige; mada-anvitah--absorbed
in the conceit; mohat--by illusion; grhitva--taking;
asat--nonpermanent; grahan--things; pravartante--they flourish;
asuci--to the unclean; vratah--avowed.

TRANSLATION

Taking shelter of insatiable lust and absorbed in the conceit of
pride and false prestige, the demoniac, thus illusioned, are always
sworn to unclean work, attracted by the impermanent.

PURPORT

The demoniac mentality is described here. The demons have no
satiation for their lust. They will go on increasing and increasing
their insatiable desires for material enjoyment. Although they are
always full of anxieties on account of accepting nonpermanent
things, they still continue to engage in such activities out of
illusion. They have no knowledge and cannot tell that they are
heading the wrong way. Accepting nonpermanent things, such demoniac
people create their own God, create their own hymns and chant
accordingly. The result is that they become more and more attracted
to two things--sex enjoyment and accumulation of material wealth.
The word asuci-vratah, unclean vows, is very significant in this
connection. Such demoniac people are only attracted by wine, women,
gambling and meat-eating; those are their asuci, unclean habits.
Induced by pride and false prestige, they create some principles of
religion which are not approved by the Vedic injunctions. Although
such demoniac people are most abominable in the world, by
artificial means the world creates a false honor for them. Although
they are gliding toward hell, they consider themselves very much
advanced.
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  #6  
Old October 28th, 2004, 10:46 AM
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Question So what happens after life ends..


rajasi pralayam gatva
karma-sangisu jayate
tatha pralinas tamasi
mudha-yonisu jayate


WORD FOR WORD

rajasi--in passion; pralayam--dissolution; gatva--attaining;
karma-sangisu--in the association of those engaged in fruitive
activities; jayate--takes birth; tatha--similarly; pralinah--being
dissolved; tamasi--in ignorance; mudha-yonisu--in animal species;
jayate--takes birth.

TRANSLATION

When one dies in the mode of passion, he takes birth among those
engaged in fruitive activities; and when one dies in the mode of
ignorance, he takes birth in the animal kingdom.

PURPORT

Some people have the impression that when the soul reaches the
platform of human life it never goes down again. This is incorrect.
According to this verse, if one develops the mode of ignorance,
after his death he is degraded to an animal form of life. From
there one has to again elevate himself, by an evolutionary process,
to come again to the human form of life. Therefore, those who are
actually serious about human life should take to the mode of
goodness and in good association transcend the modes and become
situated in Krsna consciousness. This is the aim of human life.
Otherwise, there is no guarantee that the human being will again
attain to the human status.
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Old October 28th, 2004, 01:15 PM
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  #8  
Old October 28th, 2004, 02:18 PM
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Your Expereinces instills the beliefs .. not the other way round.

So i guess during your childhood. our primary purpose is to feel safe and so we try to base our beliefs without any experiences, just to feel safe.

As u grow older these change. YOur experiences control what you will do or believe in your life.

So saying that learn from others expereinces is a fallacy because

"Experiences is not what you know . It is what you do with what you know "

Smart eh?
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Old October 28th, 2004, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by vakil sahib
linkwa to chapai's posts
Sites are many.. words are many.. but the moral of the story in this case is that have you understood what the shlokas I quoted mean in the context of this post?
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Old October 28th, 2004, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by echarcha
Sites are many.. words are many.. but the moral of the story in this case is that have you understood what the shlokas I quoted mean in the context of this post?
I could not understand how it relates specifically to maturity, experience ? Yes there is a mention about pleasures, and moral values etc. but not abt how a person as a whole evolves as s/he ages in terms of maturity that stems from his/her experience or of that of others ...
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Old October 29th, 2004, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by JaiSpeaks
Your Expereinces instills the beliefs .. not the other way round.
[YES that is what I mentioned]

Quote:
Originally posted by JaiSpeaks
So i guess during your childhood. our primary purpose is to feel safe and so we try to base our beliefs without any experiences, just to feel safe.
[Well we are not that mature at that young and tender age]

Quote:
Originally posted by JaiSpeaks
As u grow older these change. YOur experiences control what you will do or believe in your life.
[Yes one gets seasoned with the good/bad/balanced experiences or events]

Quote:
Originally posted by JaiSpeaks
So saying that learn from others expereinces is a fallacy because

"Experiences is not what you know . It is what you do with what you know "
[I still dont get the point ... I mentioned with the "knowledge of other's experiences, one may be more capable of making a guarded opinion abt things in life...]

Quote:
Originally posted by JaiSpeaks
Smart eh?
[Unfortunately that opinion (good/bad/guarded/balanced is the one that may again provide us with some sort of an experience... The saying that you have qouted aptly reflects these train of thoughts]

My experiences till date have let me to this conclusion ... and I am sure as time passes one may get novel insights into these propositions

--LandYA
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Last edited by landyaBhai; October 29th, 2004 at 12:08 AM.
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  #12  
Old October 29th, 2004, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by landyaBhai
I could not understand how it relates specifically to maturity, experience ? Yes there is a mention about pleasures, and moral values etc. but not abt how a person as a whole evolves as s/he ages in terms of maturity that stems from his/her experience or of that of others ...
Tumha samamjh nahin ayega vatsa. Prabhu ki kimaya ke aagey hum sarv tucch hain.
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Old October 29th, 2004, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by echarcha
Tumha samamjh nahin ayega vatsa. Prabhu ki kimaya ke aagey hum sarv tucch hain.
Bhai kyon fundey pel ke achchey-bahle thread ki le rahaa hai?

Landya,

Maturity is the measure of sensibility and wisdom a person has acquired through his intelligence and experience – so it is the life’s sum in essence. Every individual is different – some learn from others mistakes and experiences others do not even learn from their own mistakes.

In my opinion, maturity and innocence are not mutually exclusive.
In my opinion, being innocent does not mean being naïve or silly it is being harmless, pure and simple.

Absence of innocence may make you mean but meanness in not maturity.

For example what is a better virtue?

“Divide and Rule” or “Unite and Lead”

An innocent person can do neither but he can be divided or ruled or united or lead or manipulated.

A mean person can Divide and Rule but cannot Unite and Lead.

A mature person can Unite and Lead and keep kis and others' innocence preserved – He would unite and lead just to preserve innocence because he won’t let meanness prevail – this is maturity – Knowing what’s right and being able to do it.
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Old October 29th, 2004, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by landyaBhai
[YES that is what I mentioned]

Ok

[Well we are not that mature at that young and tender age]

Its not abt maturity .. its just what makes us safe . they are different . ever thgt abt why a kid is so comfortable with parents around rather than a strangers.



[Yes one gets seasoned with the good/bad/balanced experiences or events]

Yeah .. not all do that . Thats where insecurity seeps in



[I still dont get the point ... I mentioned with the "knowledge of other's experiences, one may be more capable of making a guarded opinion abt things in life...]
Its not that easy ..



[Unfortunately that opinion (good/bad/guarded/balanced is the one that may again provide us with some sort of an experience... The saying that you have qouted aptly reflects these train of thoughts]

My experiences till date have let me to this conclusion ... and I am sure as time passes one may get novel insights into these propositions

--LandYA
Hey dont worry abt it .. i wanted to just touch base the thread ..
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Old October 29th, 2004, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zen

Landya,

In my opinion, being innocent does not mean being naïve or silly it is being harmless, pure and simple.
Zen-pai,

I think innocence goes more than being pure and simple ... Lets take an example:

"Santaa and Bantaa are kids of age, say 5 ... they both are having an icecream ... and suddenly because Bantaa somehow flips his hand and that results in Santaa's ice-cream dropping to the ground ... now it would be a natural innocence from Santaa's part to think that it is Bantaa's fault and that he should also somehow drop Banta's icecream to the ground"

Now this is an example of innocence too ... The thing that is important here is what Santaa does and how Bantaa percieves it no matter whatever the consequence ...

[This is something I heard during one of the Yoga session @ Yoga Institute, Santa Cruz, Mumbai, India.]

I have seen similar traits in adults ... and the maturity is in understanding that it is our innocence that is driving us to such feelings but its our experience that lets us decide what we want to do with such an urge or feeling ...

That is the reason why the philiosophy that "We are all sum total of our life experiences" is simply an awesome idea worth meditating upon ...

--LandYA
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