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  #46  
Old April 15th, 2017, 04:29 AM
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Re: United airlines passenger dragged out of flight

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Originally Posted by Aashika View Post
In wake of a long weekend and with a bottle of an old Merlot, I had a very insightful conversation about this whole untined airline with someone who has been in the aviation world for close to 2 decades.

Here are his thoughts.

1. United airline did not break any law. If there is anyone who actually did break the law, it's the guy who needed to be forcefully removed. Why? See point 2.

2. When a federal security agent asks you to step out, you step out. Regardless of whether you want to step out or not. It's the law. You may research more if you don't believe.

3. If you do refuse, be prepared to be dragged out (and look at the video again. He is not being dragged out by airline staff). It's a secured area. You play by their rules. Not yours.

4. When you book your ticket, read the fine print. You agreed to be bumped should there be a need. Bumping happens all the time. Wrestling with a federal agent with a gun and a law on his side doesn't.

5. No airline likes to overbook. They are making arrangements for the crew to be taken to the destination of the flight. As such, they do not bump paying customer for a crew member unless it is important for the crew member to reach the destination (where he is needed for WORK). He is needed to fix another airplane, fly another airplane or some such thing. They do not bump passengers for pleasure. Standby crew wait until playing customers board.

So. That.

Every story has 2 sides. Don't bash an airline or an employee of an airline. They are doing their job.
Do not try to win with a federal agent. Do what they tell you to. They have the authority to remove you from the ✈️
Your points are inaccurate.

1. Fed agents can ask you to leave if they feel you are a security threats, not a paid, seated customer to take care of overbooked situation. Everybody now agrees on this.

2. The customer did not do anything illegal. You cannot use physical force to evict a paid customer.

3. Cops can also break the law, which they did in this case.
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  #47  
Old April 15th, 2017, 05:45 AM
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Re: United airlines passenger dragged out of flight

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Originally Posted by kalidas View Post
Your points are inaccurate.

1. Fed agents can ask you to leave if they feel you are a security threats, not a paid, seated customer to take care of overbooked situation. Everybody now agrees on this.

2. The customer did not do anything illegal. You cannot use physical force to evict a paid customer.

3. Cops can also break the law, which they did in this case.
If it is an overbooked situation, How did he manage to get inside in the first place?
From what i have experienced, the airline announces before boarding that the flight is overbooked and ask for volunteers, who would be accommodated on the next flight plus they also get a free flight voucher. If there are no takers, the voucher increases.
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  #48  
Old April 15th, 2017, 06:42 AM
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Re: United airlines passenger dragged out of flight

^ Exactly. I was to write the same, but you said it.

The whole thing is, Air-Flights is like a Bakery business. At the end of the day, whatever extra bakes you made,... go towards plain wastage. Empty seats flying plane, costs Airways a lot in terms of fuel, its employees, and other plane maintenance, so it's good to overbook to a certain percent. I have seen in few Gulf air flight / Kuwait airways,.. who over-boards a lot, and all,.... poor, beggar class, bharwadi, rabaari and dehati like people, ( who travels only two stops like from Kuwait to Maskat to abu dhabi to Tehran... 2 hrs of flights ) sits in a crowd on floor next to toilet,.. and sleeps in a heap, resting on top each other like a dump,.. with laathi-daang and potlaas,( boriya-bistar) just like in any Indian crowded train.

But in west, they never have such passengers,.. so IMO it's good if they overbook to only a certain extent,.. and imho,.. incentive for volunteers be increased if no one is still willing to leave the plane, for that flight. But of course no manual force be impose, since Whoever is going home for whatever urgent reasons, you never know.

Also,.. what is so difficult, for the Airlines,... to announce it ( incentive vouchers for voluntary quitting ) in a waiting room on the airport, before they already board the plane and get seated with their handbags arranged,...

Last edited by log1iszero; April 15th, 2017 at 06:46 AM.
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  #49  
Old April 15th, 2017, 06:51 AM
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Re: United airlines passenger dragged out of flight

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Originally Posted by log1iszero View Post
^ Exactly. I was to write the same, but you said it.

The whole thing is, Air-Flights is like a Bakery business. At the end of the day, whatever extra bakes you made,... go towards plain wastage. Empty seats flying plane, costs Airways a lot in terms of fuel, its employees, and other plane maintenance, so it's good to overbook to a certain percent. I have seen in few Gulf air flight / Kuwait airways,.. who over-boards a lot, and all,.... poor, beggar class, bharwadi, rabaari and dehati like people, ( who travels only two stops like from Kuwait to Maskat to abu dhabi to Tehran... 2 hrs of flights ) sits in a crowd on floor next to toilet,.. and sleeps in a heap, resting on top each other like a dump,.. with laathi-daang and potlaas,( boriya-bistar) just like in any Indian crowded train.

But in west, they never have such passengers,.. so IMO it's good if they overbook to only a certain extent,.. and imho,.. incentive for volunteers be increased if no one is still willing to leave the plane, for that flight. But of course no manual force be impose, since Whoever is going home for whatever urgent reasons, you never know.

Also,.. what is so difficult, for the Airlines,... to announce it ( incentive vouchers for voluntary quitting ) in a waiting room on the airport, before they already board the plane and get seated with their handbags arranged,...
I would suggest that the airline bump them up to firat class on the next flight. You will have a ton of volunteers.
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  #50  
Old April 15th, 2017, 10:10 AM
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Re: United airlines passenger dragged out of flight

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Originally Posted by kalidas View Post
I would suggest that the airline bump them up to firat class on the next flight. You will have a ton of volunteers.
U mean 1st class? well,.... They generally give free going next time, ( west is very flexible ) very easily and Western airways are very flexible for that, of their mistakes.

The lesson to learn is,... when yr relatives generally come to India airport to drop you ( especially, for first time US visitors,.. or In US they come to NY ( from Penn/Virginia/Florida ) ), you giveaway them all Indian currency and many a times major credit cards )and as soon as, you are boarded, luggage checked-in,.. they leave the airport, thinking that everything is settled down and alright,.. but if such thing happens, then you have no Indian money now, have no relatives in Mumbai / at JFK NY,.. , and you are stranded on Sahar / JFK airport all alone. So, always tell yr relatives not to leave unless the flight has left satisfactorily.

Passengers on a United Airlines flight after the Ariline's infamous attack on passengers due to overbooking


Last edited by log1iszero; April 15th, 2017 at 10:22 AM.
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  #51  
Old April 15th, 2017, 12:19 PM
Aashika Aashika is offline
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Re: United airlines passenger dragged out of flight

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Originally Posted by Napolean View Post
We are talking about a company here and they do not have a plan for a replacement of a crew member? So much so that they are ready to drag one of their customers?\
Your friend is in aviation industry so he will always say positive things about airlines.

Imagine the loss of face now - that would cost them a lot.
There is no way one can and should convince you. But please do a little digging. You will I am telling the truth.
No number of employees are an ideal number to hire, considering a lot of things depend on weather in aviation world
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  #52  
Old April 16th, 2017, 06:02 AM
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Re: United airlines passenger dragged out of flight

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Originally Posted by kalidas View Post
I would suggest that the airline bump them up to firat class on the next flight. You will have a ton of volunteers.
They normally bump up the vouchers to get the volunteers. Like they wanted to bump off 2 people and there was 1 taker for $500 when they incresed the voucher to 1000 and found a second taker. Not sure if the first volunteer got 500 or 1000
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  #53  
Old April 16th, 2017, 06:05 AM
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Re: United airlines passenger dragged out of flight

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Originally Posted by Aashika View Post
There is no way one can and should convince you. But please do a little digging. You will I am telling the truth.
No number of employees are an ideal number to hire, considering a lot of things depend on weather in aviation world
Big question is, whether United is able to convince the judge in the court. The fine print in all these agreements may not stand in the court if it is found to be untenable.

The Doc might already have many Lawyers come up with offers to Sue United.

BTW, does KJ plan his next movie as 'My name is Dao' to improve India China relations.
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  #54  
Old April 16th, 2017, 06:41 AM
Aashika Aashika is offline
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Re: United airlines passenger dragged out of flight

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Originally Posted by sgars View Post
They normally bump up the vouchers to get the volunteers. Like they wanted to bump off 2 people and there was 1 taker for $500 when they incresed the voucher to 1000 and found a second taker. Not sure if the first volunteer got 500 or 1000
yes...this is what happens in almost 99% of the cases. They just keep hiking the benefits until one person is willing to go for it.

As such, over booking is not illegal: see this, its called involentary bumping.
https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rights

when and if you are super bored, you and anyone who wants to take their business elsewhere can read here for Sothwest: https://www.southwest.com/assets/pdf...f-carriage.pdf

Delta: http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_...riage-dgr.html

trust me, its there. since we are talking legal now.

dont get me wrong, I still do not think that there was a need to get bloody with the passenger. perhaps we will know more when this whole thing goes to court. I am just making a point that an airline by law can remove a passenger based on the contract of carriage.
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  #55  
Old April 16th, 2017, 06:43 AM
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Re: United airlines passenger dragged out of flight

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Originally Posted by sgars View Post
Big question is, whether United is able to convince the judge in the court. The fine print in all these agreements may not stand in the court if it is found to be untenable.

The Doc might already have many Lawyers come up with offers to Sue United.

BTW, does KJ plan his next movie as 'My name is Dao' to improve India China relations.
it drives me insane when people try to bring the race into picture. I am sure UA or anyone else have better things to do. they dont go around looking for Asian dudes or black petite women.

generally speaking, the person paying the lowest fare is asked to leave first, if none take the voluntary bumping offer. or the person who last checked in, in the economy class.
First Class are last to touch as they paid a lot more money.
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  #56  
Old April 16th, 2017, 08:45 AM
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Re: United airlines passenger dragged out of flight

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Originally Posted by Aashika View Post
it drives me insane when people try to bring the race into picture. I am sure UA or anyone else have better things to do. they dont go around looking for Asian dudes or black petite women.

generally speaking, the person paying the lowest fare is asked to leave first, if none take the voluntary bumping offer. or the person who last checked in, in the economy class.
First Class are last to touch as they paid a lot more money.
Yups. Everytime some Desi or Peaceful guy is booked at an airport, NDTV starts shouting 'Racial Profiling'. Includes one Hyderabad guy who was trying to transit between Heathrow and Gatwick en route US and deported.

There is also a thread somewhere on a family who were loudly talking on mobiles and then held at Amsterdam.

United (i believe that is the new name after united airlines and continental
airlines merged) would surely have better things to do and i found African-American and East Asian origin Flight attendants there (no South Asian though).

They went by their book. And unless dr. Dao (sounds very similar to Dr Dang) goes for an out of court settlement, The judge decides whether their book is correct or not.
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  #57  
Old April 16th, 2017, 01:30 PM
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Re: United airlines passenger dragged out of flight

This whole logic of randomly picking up a passenger and bumping him off is flawed.
No passenger wants to be carried out by 4 people unless something is seriously urgent.
If that random passenger has something really urgent, he will refuse to be bumped off.
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  #58  
Old April 16th, 2017, 03:40 PM
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Re: United airlines passenger dragged out of flight

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Originally Posted by Napolean View Post
This whole logic of randomly picking up a passenger and bumping him off is flawed.
No passenger wants to be carried out by 4 people unless something is seriously urgent.
If that random passenger has something really urgent, he will refuse to be bumped off.
This is the only way airline ticket prices can be affordable. If airlines charter flights for their crew, or do not overbook, they will always have empty seats and their costs will balloon.
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  #59  
Old April 16th, 2017, 06:16 PM
Aashika Aashika is offline
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Re: United airlines passenger dragged out of flight

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Originally Posted by Napolean View Post
This whole logic of randomly picking up a passenger and bumping him off is flawed.
No passenger wants to be carried out by 4 people unless something is seriously urgent.
If that random passenger has something really urgent, he will refuse to be bumped off.
Yup. I agree, unless something really was urgent, I don't think he would have refused security; a big dude with a gun.
Hopefully we will find out why he refused.

And read sgars reply below about why they book the way they book. I actually came to know about this real reason couple of days ago.
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  #60  
Old April 16th, 2017, 06:20 PM
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Re: United airlines passenger dragged out of flight

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Originally Posted by sgars View Post
Yups. Everytime some Desi or Peaceful guy is booked at an airport, NDTV starts shouting 'Racial Profiling'. Includes one Hyderabad guy who was trying to transit between Heathrow and Gatwick en route US and deported.

There is also a thread somewhere on a family who were loudly talking on mobiles and then held at Amsterdam.

United (i believe that is the new name after united airlines and continental
airlines merged) would surely have better things to do and i found African-American and East Asian origin Flight attendants there (no South Asian though).

They went by their book. And unless dr. Dao (sounds very similar to Dr Dang) goes for an out of court settlement, The judge decides whether their book is correct or not.
I've seen a couple chinky air hostess at United.. i wanted to slap them the way the old hags were acting.. fuckin rude bitches.
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