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Old November 10th, 2010, 12:39 PM
ashdoc ashdoc is offline
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Trending Story of Prithviraj Chauhan and the triumph of islam in india--written by myself

prithviraj chauhan was the king of ajaymeru ( now ajmer ) ,who also ruled over delhi .he was the most powerful king in north india ,and had incurred the wrath of jaychand ,the ruler of kanauj in UP , by eloping with his daughter sanyukta .

all these rulers , including those in UP, were rajputs ,who dominated north india .

they were descendants of scythian invaders from central asia ,who had intermarried into local people after settling in india. because the brahmins had realised that these warlike people were set to be the rulers of india for a long time , they had smartly co-opted the rajputs into the hindu system , by declaring them to be kshatriyas.this happened in the seventh century ,after the death of emperor harshavardhan.

by the time of prithvi , the rajputs had dominated india for a period of 5 and a half centuries.they were a people who followed a code of chivalry .......did not hurt innocent women and children in war ,did not chase an opponent who turned away to flee ,and did not attack or destroy the towns and cities or even villages ......indeed ,people went about calmly working and tilling their fields while armies fought battles nearby !!......in short , dharmayudda.......

they also considered death in battle the passageway to heaven if they fought by principles of dharmayudda ,and were not at all afraid to die........but the major weakness of this was that to them , the result of the battle was not important ,it was more important to fight bravely without compromising their principles.

this was okay while fighting other indians , but was glaringly exposed while fighting against determined opponents on an international scale .

not all times they were unsucessful however , and a major arab invasion was defeated by raja bhoj ,the king of ujjain ,in the ninth century.

also muhammad ghauri ,the opponent of prithvi was defeated by the rajput ruler of gujrat ,and by prithvi himself in early encounters.

but in the 11th century , one of the greatest generals mahmud of ghazni invaded india 17 times ,including somnath in gujrat ,which he utterly destroyed, and the weakness of the rajput military machine was glaringly exposed.

the chief advantage of the turks was archery , and their main technique was the parthian shot.......this involved turning back while the horse was galloping at full speed ,and still be able to fire the arrow accurately backwards on the chasing opponent.

thus the opponent could be lured in to chasing the turkish army which feigned retreat ,and suddenly the fleeing turkish army would turn back on their horses and fire arrows on the enemy ,surprising the opponent.

this was not easy , as firing arrows backwards accurately while the horse was moving forwrds required a lot of skill and practice ,but the turks had mastered it.

mahmud of ghazni's invasions resulted in loss of punjab ,northwest frontier ,while sind and baluchistan had already gone to arabs.

thus the area that has become pakistan was under muslim occupation for a much longer time than other parts of india ,which explains the greater muslim population in that area , and the creation of pakistan.

later mahmuds dynasty was replaced by the ghurids , to whom muhammad ghauri ,prithviraj's principle opponent belonged.as punjab passed to him from mahmuds dynasty ,he already had a foothold in india.

now he confronted the brave ,chivalrous prithviraj , ruler of rajasthan ,and dhillika ( delhi ).

but afraid to confront such a powerful and capable ruler ,he first tried his hand in invading gujrat . in this ,he was soundly beaten by the rajput ruler of gujrat .

however , jaychand ,the king of kanauj , proved traitor to his country by inviting ghauri to invade india and crush prithvi , in order to take revenge for the humiliation he had suffered ,when his daughter sanyukta had eloped with prithvi.

realising that cracks were appearing between the rajputs themselves , ghauri decided to invade delhi .declaring that '' he would send the cow-faced hindus to hell '' he proclaimed jehad ,and advanced with a force of maybe 50-60,000 horsemen on delhi ,which was governed by govind rai ,prithviraj's brother .

but as luck would have it , prithvi was in the vicinity of delhi ( actually dhillika ), not in ajaymeru ( ajmer ) his capital.he had with him a force of one lakh cavalry( horsemen ).

the two met at the village of tarain ,near thaneswar north of delhi.

mahmud's army was divided into 3 wings , right ,left and center.

the rajputs had all taken opium , which made them forget all attachment to the world , and fight with reckless bravery.

they attacked in a solid mass onto the turks. the turks were overwhelmed by the superior numbers of the rajputs , and their death defying heroics.

the sheer force of the rajput attack seperated the right and left wing of the turkish army from the center , and the turks began to lose heart.

ghauri decided to bolster up his force's courage and attacked govind rai ,prithviraj's brother with a lance that broke his teeth . but undaunted , govind rai picked up a spear ,and threw with accurate aim , wounding ghauri ,who fell from his horse.

just as govind rai's bodyguards began to close in to kill ghauri ,a khalji ( turk stteled in afghanistan ) soldier quickly picked him up on his horse ,and carried him to safety.

by this time the rout of the turks was complete ,and the first battle of tarain had gone in favour of the rajputs .

ghauri had done the mistake of meeting the brave rajputs in frontal charge ,where the rajputs excelled ,instead of using archers to attack them from far......hence he had lost.

true to their chivalrous spirit ,the rajputs did not try to destroy the retreating turks ......a mistake which would cost india dear in the days to come...........as many turks fled with their lives intact , free to fight another battle......

after this ,the rajputs laid seige to the fort of bhatinda , but did not possess seige engines , and could not capture it ........eventually ,it was starved into surrender after thirteen months........ but this again exposed indias lack of military knowledge .


prithviraj returned in triumph to his capital which was gayly decorated to welcoming him by his wife sanyukta .here , he remained immersed in pleasures and enjoyment , and neglected the defence of the frontiers. this was his grave mistake as he should have realised that ghauri would attack again. prithvi clearly had become overconfident of his strength.

his achievements were sung by his court poet chanda bardai ,who has left us an account from which we also know the story of prithviraj from the hindu veiwpoint ......as also the story of his romance with sanyukta.

not so ghauri ,who was so incensed by his defeat ,that he put the generals who had fled from the battlefield in prison ,and freed them only when they took an oath to be ready to die on the battlefield if they fought again.

next year , he advanced fully prepared , with a force of no less than one lakh and twenty thousand horsemen .

such preparations could not go unnoticed , and prithviraj called upon all the rajput kings in north india ,who advanced to help him. his total forces numbered a mighty 3 lakh horsemen.

again the two armies came face to face at tarain .it was an year after the earlier battle ....the year was 1192 , a fateful year that would change the destinies of india.

the rajputs sent a haughty message telling ghauri of their vast forces.clearly they were overconfident of success. to this ghauri replied by lying that he was indeed impressed by the size of the rajput force ,and he wanted to negotiate a peace and return home.

the rajpots became so relaxed by his answer that they spent the night wining , dining and dancing and taking opium , thinking that no war was going to be fought.

next dawn ,they were rudely woken up from their slumber and morning ablutions,as 1,20,000 turkish cavalrymen charged them from all sides.........

this time ghauri had brought along his horse archers ,who formed four wings ,and surrounded the rajputs from all sides ,firing arrows.

as the rajputs tried to close in with them for hand to hand combat , they would retreat , and fire the arrows backwards while retreating , the classic parthian shot.

the rajputs were frustrated as they could not get into grips with the enemy , and the constant shower of arrows harassed them and began to thin their numbers. this continued for 3 hours.

as rajputs were dwindling in numbers , and began to tire out ,ghauri sent in his reserve force ,who were heavy cavalry expert in hand -to hand combat ,and wore chain armour. these troops were fresh ,and had not fought ,so they were untired. rajputs ,on the other hand ,were tired ........above all ,they had not kept a reserve ,to face untired enemy troops .

this turkish reserve force charged at full gallop into the rajputs ,who were tired by now by the constant skirmishing ,and did not have the energy for hand to hand combat anymore.

slowly but surely the rajputs were cut down .......

finally ,they began to flee .....it was now every man for himself.....

the turks did not show them any chivalry , and a great massacre began .......

prithviraj ,the tragic hero of the tale , proved that he was no hero at all, by trying to escape from the battlefield on a horse ,instead of dying a true general's ( and needless to say ,rajput's )death ,by suffering the same fate as his soldiers........but to no avail ,as he was caught by turkish soldiers and put to death.

catastrophe descended on hindustan ( as the turks called it ), as the army of islam carried death and destruction with it , plundering and destroying temples , breaking idols , raping women en masse ,indiscriminately slaying the population and taking loads of slaves who would never make it across the hindu kush ( killer of hindus ) mountains due to the biting cold......

nobody knows what happened to sanyukta and chanda bardai . as far sanyogita's father jaychand is concerned , the traitor did not live to relish his revenge for long ,as the turks invaded his domains and killed him ,destroying his capital kanauj in an orgy of blood.....

with that this saga had come to an end.......but india's saga of tragedy had just begun........


Quote:
Story of Prithviraj Chauhan and the triumph of islam in india--written by myself
Original forum: Cultural Exchange
Trending Topic (week ending Fri, Nov 11th, 2010)
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Old November 10th, 2010, 01:36 PM
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Re: Story of Prithviraj Chauhan and the triumph of islam in india--written by myself

what a piece of crock

No mention of Ghauri being captured by Prithviraj and let go

There is absolutely no evidence of Ghauri attempting to negotiate surrender...before advent of Islam into India....kings did not carry harem of women to battlefield...Rajput men do not dance...Pathans do...so most likely Ghauri's army would be the one dancing

I am controlling my urge to give you negative rep

The Parthian shot that you are mentioning is actually a Mongol warfare technique...not Parthian...There is no evidence that suggests anybody before Mongols used this idea...if they did Mongols would not have been so effective
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Old November 10th, 2010, 07:16 PM
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Re: Story of Prithviraj Chauhan and the triumph of islam in india--written by myself

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Originally Posted by dhurandhar View Post
what a piece of crock

No mention of Ghauri being captured by Prithviraj and let go

There is absolutely no evidence of Ghauri attempting to negotiate surrender...before advent of Islam into India....kings did not carry harem of women to battlefield...Rajput men do not dance...Pathans do...so most likely Ghauri's army would be the one dancing

I am controlling my urge to give you negative rep

The Parthian shot that you are mentioning is actually a Mongol warfare technique...not Parthian...There is no evidence that suggests anybody before Mongols used this idea...if they did Mongols would not have been so effective
dhurandhar ,the story of ghauri being captured by prithviraj chauhan is not true at all .

even prithviraj was not such a fool to let a captured opponent who was hell-bent on his destruction go free.

i have read numerous accounts of the first battle of tarain by real ,reputed historians , and no one even mentions this story.....remember , i have read several accounts......

the story of ghauri being wounded ,and a khalji soldier rescuing him is accepted by all.

the ' capture and let go ' story has been invented by chanda bardai ,the court poet of prithviraj ,to show that his master could have killed ghauri if he wanted , but did not ,out of chivalry.

rajputs like to repeat it ,as it makes then feel better.

you being a rajput partisan ,as you have proved yourself on this forum in the past , would like to believe it........but using your own words ,its piece of crock......

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ghauri never attemped to negotiate surrender......i never said so ,read what i wrote carefully.

on the eve of the second battle ,the rajputs haughtily sent him a message saying that they had 3 lakh troops with them , and he took the chance of putting the off-guard by sending a message that he would open peace negotiations next day .

next day however ,he attacked the surprised rajputs........

there were no negotiations at all.......

this is account written by the historian ferishta ,who was present in ghauri's camp .....it is accepted by majority , but not by some . i accept it .

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i never said any kind of harem or women were on the battlefield.......you haven't read carefully.

the rajputs certainly drank and caroused on the battlefield ,on the previous day ,lulled by ghauris message ........maybe using the word dance was an exaggeration.
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the parthian warfare technique was used by ALL steppe living nomadic peoples ,including attila the hun ,when he invaded europe ,centuries before the mongols.

the mongols however ,were the greatest masters and exponents of it ,and gave additional modifications to it ,which made it even more effective.

but certainly the turks knew of it ,and used it .

the word parthian comes from the parthians who were nomadic peoples from central asia ,who captured iran ,and then challenged the power of rome.

it was when fighting with these people that europeans saw the parthian shot for themselves ,and began to call it parthian shot........actually it had been used by other nomadic peoples before too.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 08:17 PM
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Re: Story of Prithviraj Chauhan and the triumph of islam in india--written by myself

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Originally Posted by ashdoc View Post
dhurandhar ,the story of ghauri being captured by prithviraj chauhan is not true at all .

even prithviraj was not such a fool to let a captured opponent who was hell-bent on his destruction go free.

i have read numerous accounts of the first battle of tarain by real ,reputed historians , and no one even mentions this story.....remember , i have read several accounts......

the story of ghauri being wounded ,and a khalji soldier rescuing him is accepted by all.

the ' capture and let go ' story has been invented by chanda bardai ,the court poet of prithviraj ,to show that his master could have killed ghauri if he wanted , but did not ,out of chivalry.

rajputs like to repeat it ,as it makes then feel better.

you being a rajput partisan ,as you have proved yourself on this forum in the past , would like to believe it........but using your own words ,its piece of crock......

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ghauri never attemped to negotiate surrender......i never said so ,read what i wrote carefully.

on the eve of the second battle ,the rajputs haughtily sent him a message saying that they had 3 lakh troops with them , and he took the chance of putting the off-guard by sending a message that he would open peace negotiations next day .

next day however ,he attacked the surprised rajputs........

there were no negotiations at all.......

this is account written by the historian ferishta ,who was present in ghauri's camp .....it is accepted by majority , but not by some . i accept it .

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i never said any kind of harem or women were on the battlefield.......you haven't read carefully.

the rajputs certainly drank and caroused on the battlefield ,on the previous day ,lulled by ghauris message ........maybe using the word dance was an exaggeration.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

the parthian warfare technique was used by ALL steppe living nomadic peoples ,including attila the hun ,when he invaded europe ,centuries before the mongols.

the mongols however ,were the greatest masters and exponents of it ,and gave additional modifications to it ,which made it even more effective.

but certainly the turks knew of it ,and used it .

the word parthian comes from the parthians who were nomadic peoples from central asia ,who captured iran ,and then challenged the power of rome.

it was when fighting with these people that europeans saw the parthian shot for themselves ,and began to call it parthian shot........actually it had been used by other nomadic peoples before too.
1) You are forgetting that so called reputed historians had strong anti-Indian bias.

2) Why do you think or assume that Indians did not know how to ride horse and shoot arrows at the same time?

3) Do you really believe the BS that Brahmins could brainwash nomadic Scythians into having a principled warfare based on some mythology fabricated by Brahmins....I doubt that as cunning the Brahmins were...it is impossible for them to be simultaneously as stupid to allow enemy an upper hand by fighting a principled warfare. Rajputs trace their lineage to Sun, Moon or Fire...so the Kshatriya clan and vedic system existed long before that. That assimilation crap is the BF (Brain Fart) from Max Mueller and his Aryan crap theory.

4) Just because you have read more, doesn't mean it is true. Especially in case of history, where it is merely HIS STORY written by victors. Obviously, victors want to prove themselves smart and so don't write all the treachery that goes with it.

5) You forgot that Jaichand Rathod aided Ghauri....to avenge Sanyukta's elopement (not Sanyogita as you call it). It was case of betrayal of India for a petty vengeance and not some sort of master stroke or genius of Ghauri.

Again, your pathetic attempt at maligning Rajputs is ludicruous
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Old November 10th, 2010, 08:27 PM
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Re: Story of Prithviraj Chauhan and the triumph of islam in india--written by myself

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composite_bow

read this link...it says Scythians, Parthians, Huns, Mongols all used this shooting from riding horse trick....why do you think Rajputs would not know that if they were descendants of Scythians? This contradicts some arguments you put forth.

In case if you don't know...many of the Indian metallurgy and warfare techniques made it to the west...somehow the art of explosives was lost (post Mahabharat)...to be discovered later by Chinese.

The idea of putting spikes or knives on chariot wheels to maim enemy soldiers was brainchild of emperor Ajatsatru...used extensively on Roman chariots

I'd say better be good at medical practice than historical malpractice
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Old November 10th, 2010, 08:50 PM
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Re: Story of Prithviraj Chauhan and the triumph of islam in india--written by myself

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Originally Posted by dhurandhar View Post
1) You are forgetting that so called reputed historians had strong anti-Indian bias.

no , i have above all read accounts of this written by soldiers of the indian army , not the secular historians .

i am not stupid to accept accounts written by secular historians ......you know how i hate seculars



2) Why do you think or assume that Indians did not know how to ride horse and shoot arrows at the same time?

indians knew this ,but did not know how to fire backwards while feigning retreat......they could of course ,fire forwards while attacking

but firing backwards while the horse was at full gallop was much more difficult to master ,and not even the europeans could do it , even after they saw the parthians do it.



3) Do you really believe the BS that Brahmins could brainwash nomadic Scythians into having a principled warfare based on some mythology fabricated by Brahmins....I doubt that as cunning the Brahmins were...it is impossible for them to be simultaneously as stupid to allow enemy an upper hand by fighting a principled warfare. Rajputs trace their lineage to Sun, Moon or Fire...so the Kshatriya clan and vedic system existed long before that. That assimilation crap is the BF (Brain Fart) from Max Mueller and his Aryan crap theory.

i have here accepted john keay's account of rajputs.( india -a history )

you are welcome to disagree........even though i have accepted it , many people dont ........but this is not thread to discuss origin of rajputs.

however , i agree that i could be proved wrong in future......the theory about origin of rajputs i have accepted is by no means 100 percent certain.



4) Just because you have read more, doesn't mean it is true. Especially in case of history, where it is merely HIS STORY written by victors. Obviously, victors want to prove themselves smart and so don't write all the treachery that goes with it.

here the turks have accepted their own treachery.

saying that we will open negotiations tommorrow ,and suddenly attacking next dawn is treachery



5) You forgot that Jaichand Rathod aided Ghauri....to avenge Sanyukta's elopement (not Sanyogita as you call it). It was case of betrayal of India for a petty vengeance and not some sort of master stroke or genius of Ghauri.

again ,you have not read properly , i have already written that jaychand invited ghauri ,and have used the word traitor for him BEFORE you did


Again, your pathetic attempt at maligning Rajputs is ludicruous

If it is an attempt ,then its a very good attempt ,not pathetic

......but its not.....

you see , analysis of any defeat is bound to critisize the defeated .....

obviously , weaknesses in the military system of rajputs are bound to be talked about in such a narrative , because it is due to these weakness that they lost.

but i have made no attempt to malign......this is not a rajput bashing thread. later on , i will write about the maratha defeat at panipat ,as time permits.

please dont say that i am making a pathetic attempt at bashing marathas at that time

...................
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Old November 10th, 2010, 08:54 PM
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Re: Story of Prithviraj Chauhan and the triumph of islam in india--written by myself

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no , i have above all read accounts of this written by soldiers of the indian army , not the secular historians .

i am not stupid to accept accounts written by secular historians ......you know how i hate seculars
You are not saying that an armyman knows more history than a historian, are you?
:not-sure-what-kind-of-smiley-to-use::mixed-feelings::hatasha::nirasha:
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Old November 10th, 2010, 08:56 PM
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Re: Story of Prithviraj Chauhan and the triumph of islam in india--written by myself

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Originally Posted by dhurandhar View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composite_bow

read this link...it says Scythians, Parthians, Huns, Mongols all used this shooting from riding horse trick....why do you think Rajputs would not know that if they were descendants of Scythians? This contradicts some arguments you put forth.
These are all steppe people from the wild tracts of central asia .......they knew the parthian shot.

but the settled people of india ,china , rome ,egypt ,iraq ,iran did not know it.

yes , but i agree that the rajputs-descended-from-scythians theory is by no means certain.......i have already said so in my above post.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 08:58 PM
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Re: Story of Prithviraj Chauhan and the triumph of islam in india--written by myself

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Originally Posted by chitrala View Post
You are not saying that an armyman knows more history than a historian, are you?
:not-sure-what-kind-of-smiley-to-use::mixed-feelings::hatasha::nirasha:
armyman is more fair however in his approach .

no serious historian accepts this theory ....it was propagated by the poet chanda bardai in his ' prithviraj raso '.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 09:12 PM
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Re: Story of Prithviraj Chauhan and the triumph of islam in india--written by myself

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armyman is more fair however in his approach .

no serious historian accepts this theory ....it was propagated by the poet chanda bardai in his ' prithviraj raso '.
I would anyday rely on a historian's account (for historical matters)than an armyman's...
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Old November 10th, 2010, 09:52 PM
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Re: Story of Prithviraj Chauhan and the triumph of islam in india--written by myself

India never had a historian per say...the closest that comes to historian is called "barot" who are bards and keep track of generations of people in the village.

Therefore, the poet Chand Bardai (a barot) should be given status of historian and not be discounted as a storyteller
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Old November 11th, 2010, 01:47 AM
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Re: Story of Prithviraj Chauhan and the triumph of islam in india--written by myself

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Originally Posted by chitrala View Post
I would anyday rely on a historian's account (for historical matters)than an armyman's...
if you read armymen's accounts ,they give military moves in detail , and the battles become more clearer.

historians dont describe battles clearly .
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Old November 11th, 2010, 01:53 AM
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Re: Story of Prithviraj Chauhan and the triumph of islam in india--written by myself

wikipedia agrees that ghauri was not captured in the first battle--

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Tarain

it also agrees that in the second battle ghauri fooled the rajputs into celebrating and letting down their guard by pretending to be ready for a truce ,and attacked suddenly next morning.
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Old November 11th, 2010, 09:38 AM
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Re: Story of Prithviraj Chauhan and the triumph of islam in india--written by myself

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhurandhar View Post
India never had a historian per say...the closest that comes to historian is called "barot" who are bards and keep track of generations of people in the village.

Therefore, the poet Chand Bardai (a barot) should be given status of historian and not be discounted as a storyteller
Sure, and along with Chandbardai, give Tulsidas, Surdas, Jaayasi, Kalidas etc also a historian status.

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Originally Posted by ashdoc View Post
if you read armymen's accounts ,they give military moves in detail , and the battles become more clearer.

historians dont describe battles clearly .
C'mon buddy... history is not only about battle plans... at least those secular historians put the facts correctly, their conclusions maybe faulty... but you can draw your own conclusions based on those facts. If you take armymen's account then you may like to take mine version or any other amateur's account as well.
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Old November 15th, 2010, 08:11 PM
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Re: Story of Prithviraj Chauhan and the triumph of islam in india--written by myself

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Originally Posted by chitrala View Post
Sure, and along with Chandbardai, give Tulsidas, Surdas, Jaayasi, Kalidas etc also a historian status.



C'mon buddy... history is not only about battle plans... at least those secular historians put the facts correctly, their conclusions maybe faulty... but you can draw your own conclusions based on those facts. If you take armymen's account then you may like to take mine version or any other amateur's account as well.
FACTS you say!!!!!!!

Even in today's date with all the media coverage....facts are debatable (for example, Godhra train burning was pre-planned)...and you automatically believe whatever some historians say (including Farishta guy who was on Ghori's payroll) to be FACT
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