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  #46  
Old December 5th, 2006, 01:51 PM
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Re: Self-Restraint v/s No Restraint

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Originally Posted by dhurandhar
Oh, how could I forget....but then you could not de-flower me and I realized you were just a dud
It take two to make a pancake ... noh?

and Dhurenderbhai ... what's this edit shit I see below your post ... first time I believe. You just got deflowered ... again!
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  #47  
Old December 5th, 2006, 02:07 PM
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Re: Self-Restraint v/s No Restraint

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Originally Posted by tantric_yogi
It take two to make a pancake ... noh?

and Dhurenderbhai ... what's this edit shit I see below your post ... first time I believe. You just got deflowered ... again!
There was no pancake made, therefore I had to commit suicide then

Tantu, trust me, no one, I mean no one can destabilize my mind
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  #48  
Old December 5th, 2006, 02:21 PM
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Re: Self-Restraint v/s No Restraint

Without any personal interest, how can one be enthusiastic about any work that S/he is into ... I mean, even if we take an example of common day to day activities:

(1) Sleep: Goal is to relax ...
(2) Eat: Goal is to feel satisfied with the food (may be in terms of palate or just to get renewed with energy)
(3) Drink: --- similar logic ---
(4) Mate: I will leave it to one's imaginations to what the purpose would be ...

So, is there any example where we are doing something out of no self-interest ...

Anybody??
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  #49  
Old December 5th, 2006, 02:55 PM
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Re: Self-Restraint v/s No Restraint

A simple answer to your question, Lanbhaida pai, without too many complications is "No". Nobody does anything without self-interest... and believe me, there are no exceptions... none... zit... zero... nobody.
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  #50  
Old December 5th, 2006, 03:03 PM
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Re: Self-Restraint v/s No Restraint

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Originally Posted by Sane Less
A simple answer to your question, Lanbhaida pai, without too many complications is "No". Nobody does anything without self-interest... and believe me, there are no exceptions... none... zit... zero... nobody.
no example of any selfless action ... saneless pai ... koi toh example hoga
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  #51  
Old December 5th, 2006, 03:06 PM
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Re: Self-Restraint v/s No Restraint

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Originally Posted by landyaBhai
no example of any selfless action ... saneless pai ... koi toh example hoga
Try your best... you will not find any... in the entire history of mankind. If you have, let me know and I will prove that you are wrong
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  #52  
Old December 5th, 2006, 03:08 PM
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Re: Self-Restraint v/s No Restraint

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Originally Posted by Sane Less
Try your best... you will not find any... in the entire history of mankind. If you have, let me know and I will prove that you are wrong
This discussion is getting interesting
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  #53  
Old December 5th, 2006, 04:26 PM
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Re: Self-Restraint v/s No Restraint

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Originally Posted by landyaBhai
no example of any selfless action ... saneless pai ... koi toh example hoga
Self-less....but then, what exactly constitutes SELF?

I think Self-less is very misguiding term, and believe that Vivekanand refers to the absence of EGO (or egotistic mentality) while performing necessary actions.
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  #54  
Old December 5th, 2006, 04:43 PM
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Re: Self-Restraint v/s No Restraint

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Originally Posted by dhurandhar
Self-less....but then, what exactly constitutes SELF?
Unfortunately, I dont know what Self means ... In the spiritual sense, it means the soul but I am yet to feel it myself.

"what exactly constitutes SELF?" is a nice question ...

By Self-less service, I am assuming no hidden motive or agenda and ofcourse no *ego* too ... may be like instead of "I am doing this service", wouldnt it be better to say that "I am just an instrument" ... doesnt that relieves a little bit of ego?
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  #55  
Old December 5th, 2006, 04:55 PM
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Re: Self-Restraint v/s No Restraint

Quote:
Originally Posted by landyaBhai
...

By Self-less service, I am assuming no hidden motive or agenda and ofcourse no *ego* too ... may be like instead of "I am doing this service", wouldnt it be better to say that "I am just an instrument" ... doesnt that relieves a little bit of ego?
You should have been more clear about your meaning of selfless before, Lanayabda pai... 'cos what you say is different than what I thought selfless meant. My meaning of selflessness is doing something without thought of personal gain or happiness or pleasure or comfort, irrespective of whether it is hidden or an agenda.

If we go with your definition, then almost all of humanity (including muslims) are selfless. Specially myself... I do my work selflesslessly (no hidden motive... everything out in the open, on clear paper).

So, please guide us, oh great one... how do we proceed with this thread... your definition or mine
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  #56  
Old December 5th, 2006, 05:27 PM
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Re: Self-Restraint v/s No Restraint

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sane Less
So, please guide us, oh great one...
SanePai, ghareeb ka mazaak ... baskya ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sane Less
how do we proceed with this thread... your definition or mine
whatever, I am here to hear everybody's views (as rightly pointed out by Tantu) and may be provide my views too ...

Keep it coming guys
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  #57  
Old December 8th, 2006, 12:54 AM
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Re: Self-Restraint v/s No Restraint

Some of what Vivekananda says about Karma that may be relevant and inspiring for all of us:

1. No Concept of Fate
No one can get anything unless he earns it; this is an eternal law. We may sometimes think it is not so, but in the long run we become convinced of it.

2. Our Future is In Our Hands:
Our Karma determines what we deserve and what we can assimilate. We are responsible for what we are; and whatever we wish ourselves to be, we have the power to make ourselves. If what we are now has been the result of our own past actions, it certainly follows that whatever we wish to be in future can be produced by our present actions; so we have to know how to act.

3. Working Intelligently:
You will say, "What is the use of learning how to work? Everyone works in some way or other in this world." But there is such a thing as frittering away our energies. With regard to Karma-Yoga, the Gita says that it is doing work with cleverness and as a science: by knowing how to work, one can obtain the greatest results.

4. Here is what Saneless says and what Vivekananda says:
Man works with various motives; there cannot be work without motive

5. Work for work's sake
If a man works without any selfish motive in view, does he not gain anything? Yes, he gains the highest. In the first place, a man who can work for five days or even for five minutes without any selfish motive whatever, without thinking of future, of heaven, of punishment, or anything of the kind, has in him the capacity to become a powerful moral giant. This self-control will tend to produce a mighty will, a character which makes a Christ or a Buddha.

6. Patience to look beyond with self-restraint
The majority of us cannot see beyond a few years, just as some animals cannot see beyond a few steps. Just a little narrow circle--that is our world. We have not the patience to look beyond, and thus become immoral and wicked. This is our weakness, our powerlessness.

7. Ideal Karma-Yogi:
The ideal man is he who in the midst of the greatest silence and solitude finds the intensest activity, and in the midst of the intensest activity finds the silence and solitude of the desert. He has learnt the secret of restraint, he has controlled himself. He goes through the streets of a big city with all its traffic, and his mind is as calm as if he were in a cave where not a sound could reach him; and he is intensely working all the time. That is the ideal of Karma-Yoga

8. Begin from the beginning:
We may all hope that some day or other, as we struggle through the paths of life, there will come a time when we shall become perfectly unselfish; and the moment we attain to that, all our powers will be concentrated, and the knowledge which is ours will be manifest.
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  #58  
Old December 8th, 2006, 12:56 AM
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Re: Self-Restraint v/s No Restraint

I think SanelessPai, the difference is in the motive viz Selfless/Selfish and the attitude with which we do our work.
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Old December 8th, 2006, 02:43 AM
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Re: Self-Restraint v/s No Restraint

Interesting excerpt from "What is Duty?" by Swami Vivekananda.
Link: http://www.geocities.com/athens/olym...yoga/duty.html

A sage in India, a great Yogi, told me once the secret of work, "Let the end and the means be joined into one." When you are doing any work, do not think of anything beyond. Do it as worship, as the highest worship, and devote your whole life to it for the time being. Thus, in the story, the Butcher and the wife(or mother) did their duty with cheerfulness and whole-heartedness; and the result was that they become illuminated, clearly showing that the right performance of the duties of any station in life, without attachment to results, leads us to the highest realisation of the perfection of the soul.

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Old December 8th, 2006, 05:11 AM
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Re: Self-Restraint v/s No Restraint

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Originally Posted by landyaBhai
Interesting excerpt from "What is Duty?" by Swami Vivekananda.
Link: http://www.geocities.com/athens/olym...yoga/duty.html

A sage in India, a great Yogi, told me once the secret of work, "Let the end and the means be joined into one." When you are doing any work, do not think of anything beyond. Do it as worship, as the highest worship, and devote your whole life to it for the time being. Thus, in the story, the Butcher and the wife(or mother) did their duty with cheerfulness and whole-heartedness; and the result was that they become illuminated, clearly showing that the right performance of the duties of any station in life, without attachment to results, leads us to the highest realisation of the perfection of the soul.

I say all that Vivekanand explains, can be implemented without invoking the concept of God

In my opinion, sneezing is the best example of selfless (that is egoless) action. Notice that when you sneeze, for a fraction of second all thoughts come to naught and mind becomes still...there you have it...a miniscule experience of SAMADHI
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