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  #16  
Old December 2nd, 2006, 12:19 PM
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Re: Self-Restraint v/s No Restraint

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhurandhar
When YOU do not know anything about Yoga and merely regurgitating or citing what other people have to say, I feel NO remorse making outrageous statements with the sole purpose of kicking your ass.
I just want to know whose ass you are kicking w/o remorse. If it is mine, then I am ready for it because I know that I will not propose by claiming everyone (or someone) as a TOTAL idiot and then fail to provide any convincing arguments in favour

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhurandhar
Recall the Prabhupada thread a year and half ago wherein you got all worked up and then later you concluded what I said at the outset.
I did not conclude what you had said right from the beginning. Please go and look back on that thread. What I had said was that there is a possibility of a misinterpretation of some sanskrit words and it is *purely* my understanding and experience that I feel like that. I dont think that I said somebody was a TOTAL IDIOT for no reason or for that matter any reason ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhurandhar
Because the concept of God, reincarnation and in general ANY religion is purely subjective, I can say without remorse that all those who believe in God are TOTAL idiots
Did I ask you in this thread why are you not having any remorse or guilt to what you have to say? Please go back to 4 posts before this post ... I just asked you one simple question, please "justify the claim that Vivekananda was an IDIOT". Your reason was that "he did not consider Buddha attaining Nirvana by self-restraint" and I pointed out to what he as exactly said about Buddha. Now, either I have a problem with my eyes, or that book which Vivekananda himself has written is talking about some other Buddha (which probably only you are aware of)
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  #17  
Old December 2nd, 2006, 12:22 PM
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Re: Self-Restraint v/s No Restraint

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhurandhar
Can YOU prove that GOD exists? If not, you are not being rational. If you aren't rational, why should I?
What happened? Trying to justify by asking the all-famous *question*

I am still waiting where and which book and in which verse/speech has Vivekananda claimed that Lord Buddha had no restraint. I mean you have claimed that person to be a total IDIOT? rite?
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  #18  
Old December 2nd, 2006, 12:25 PM
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Re: Self-Restraint v/s No Restraint

[quote=dhurandhar]
Quote:
Originally Posted by landyaBhai

Regarding the Jeevan Charitra, I would love to hear what you would cite in relevance or in support to what you want to say about Swami Vivekananda, Sri Ramkrishna, and even about How Dalai Lama would not agree Buddha to be a Karma Yogi. Please cite proper references and I would not argue any further.
I have questioned your material logic just as you are questioning mine. But even then I havent concluded that you are a TOTAL idiot ... because that is not we are discussing here ... right??

[\QUOTE]


You don't even care to read what I have to say...I was referring to Einstein and Schrodinger
What exactly were you referring about Einstein and Schrodinger? And please tell me how that is related to Swami Vivekananda, Sri Ramkrishna, Self-Restraint or No-restraint or Self-Realization.

Unfortunately, as you know that I am an IDIOT, please justify in plain simple english words how to relate all this to one particular idea, thought, analogy, or proposition
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  #19  
Old December 2nd, 2006, 12:28 PM
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Re: Self-Restraint v/s No Restraint

I am talking about these claims and how they relate here in this thread:

1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhurandhar
Vivekanand was a TOTAL idiot.
2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhurandhar
He forgot that Buddha did not attain salvation via practicing restraint,
3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhurandhar
nor did his own guru Shri Ramakrishna Paramhans practice any restraint.
4.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhurandhar
It is noteworthy that many scientists were notorious womanizers...for example Albert Einstein, Schrodinger... to name a few
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  #20  
Old December 2nd, 2006, 01:06 PM
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Re: Self-Restraint v/s No Restraint

[quote=landyaBhai]
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhurandhar

What exactly were you referring about Einstein and Schrodinger? And please tell me how that is related to Swami Vivekananda, Sri Ramkrishna, Self-Restraint or No-restraint or Self-Realization.

Unfortunately, as you know that I am an IDIOT, please justify in plain simple english words how to relate all this to one particular idea, thought, analogy, or proposition
Now that you have accepted that you are an idiot, I need not spend my energies on you
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  #21  
Old December 2nd, 2006, 01:09 PM
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Re: Self-Restraint v/s No Restraint

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhurandhar
Now that you have accepted that you are an idiot, I need not spend my energies on you
Which means that now I can edit your FALSE statements about some personality ...However, I am still waiting for you to provide arguments in favor for these:

1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhurandhar
Vivekanand was a TOTAL idiot.
2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhurandhar
He forgot that Buddha did not attain salvation via practicing restraint,
3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhurandhar
nor did his own guru Shri Ramakrishna Paramhans practice any restraint.
4.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhurandhar
It is noteworthy that many scientists were notorious womanizers...for example Albert Einstein, Schrodinger... to name a few
So, if you dont have anything, I being the moderator of atleast the Spiritual Forum, would moderate over these *unjustified* and *wrong* claims about Swami Vivekananda or Sri Ram Krishna or Buddha ...

And this is a warning to you to not make such claims w/o any reasonable arguments in favor ... Because whenever you will do it, I will moderate it ...

Sorry yaar, I mean there is a way of discussion. Unfortunately, I am still waiting for your comments on your claims (either in support or in opposition) ... But since you have nothing but only these , I think it has reached a point where I will moderate and I know you may not like it ... Sorry

--LandYA
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Last edited by landyaBhai; December 2nd, 2006 at 01:52 PM.
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  #22  
Old December 2nd, 2006, 01:58 PM
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Re: Self-Restraint v/s No Restraint

Landya,what happened to the main topic of the thread...started with so much promise and then frittered away...
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  #23  
Old December 2nd, 2006, 02:02 PM
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Re: Self-Restraint v/s No Restraint

Quote:
Originally Posted by landyaBhai
I think "Selfless Work" is difficult but when done incrementally, it is possible for one to then forget his/her ego, which means the most difficult veil above our original self is removed and it becomes probably easier to understand the gross unrealities and the easier/simple reality/truth ....
That is the confusion....how does one go about selfless work?Anything you do,it turns out to be selfish.You got any examples?
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  #24  
Old December 2nd, 2006, 02:26 PM
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Re: Self-Restraint v/s No Restraint

Quote:
Originally Posted by Napolean
Landya,what happened to the main topic of the thread...started with so much promise and then frittered away...
Yaar, NapoleanPai, it is useless arguing with people who dont believe in rational reasoning ... Following up with stupid claims and *genuinely* requesting for arguments (in favour or in opposition, any) has lead to the derailment of this thread ...

But then that's ok ... I will bring it back or someone will ...

Thanks for pointing that out ...

--LandYA
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  #25  
Old December 2nd, 2006, 02:32 PM
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Re: Self-Restraint v/s No Restraint

Quote:
Originally Posted by Napolean
That is the confusion....how does one go about selfless work?Anything you do,it turns out to be selfish.You got any examples?
Napoleon, I have tried to think about it for sometime now ... Washing utensils, cooking food, and doing something at the temple are one of the examples but that is not selfless either because inherently I think that I am doing it because I feel that I will derive some spiritual benefit out of it ... Ofcourse that is a *very lofty* aspiration ... It comes very rarely to me ... usually it is like, "Oh God, I hope that I get forgiven for something that I did wrong in the past or Oh God, please help me get a better opportunity in solving this or solving that problem"

So, I think it happens sometimes that work is done selflessly but the moment I think about it, is the moment from where onwards, I try to convince myself (repeatedly) that I shouldnt end up asking for or hoping for some material gain ...

I am reading these days about Karma Yoga. We indians are very lucky to have so much knowledge available from time immemorial ... Just need to have a lot of spare time to read, analyze, and realize it within to believe
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  #26  
Old December 2nd, 2006, 07:34 PM
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Re: Self-Restraint v/s No Restraint


Landyabhai ... I have not read entire thread ... being honest ... but I got the hunch and just a matter of time before you two try and rekindle your old love affair.



Quote:
Originally Posted by dhurandhar
When a person is extremely focused on achieving a particular objective, he automatically withdraws attention from other pursuits. For example, Isaac Newton was so engaged in his scientific pursuits that he remained a bachelor. Did he practice Brahmacharya for heck of it, HELL NO! It was his scientific pursuit that channeled his energies from procreation to discovery
Landyabhai ... lets find something you two can agree upon. I dont see why you hesitate agreeing with Dhurendherbhai on his above quoted statement? Channelling the energies is the ultimate Yogic sadhna to achieve higher goals ... I believe.


edit/add: with all due respects.
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  #27  
Old December 3rd, 2006, 02:25 AM
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Thumbs up Re: Self-Restraint v/s No Restraint

Quote:
Originally Posted by landyaBhai
Which means that now I can edit your FALSE statements about some personality ...However, I am still waiting for you to provide arguments in favor for these:

So, if you dont have anything, I being the moderator of atleast the Spiritual Forum, would moderate over these *unjustified* and *wrong* claims about Swami Vivekananda or Sri Ram Krishna or Buddha ...

And this is a warning to you to not make such claims w/o any reasonable arguments in favor ... Because whenever you will do it, I will moderate it ...

Sorry yaar, I mean there is a way of discussion. Unfortunately, I am still waiting for your comments on your claims (either in support or in opposition) ... But since you have nothing but only these , I think it has reached a point where I will moderate and I know you may not like it ... Sorry

--LandYA

Landyabhai ... if I be permitted to speak freely? Its all about point of view and academics have a word for it ... epistemology ... philosophically speaking ... what is knowledge, how is it acquired, and most important of it all what do we really know? We dont see things as they are, we see them as we are ... goes for you, for yogi and for Dhurendherbhai.

If you are receptive ... I go further or lets forget it. If you permit me to proceed ... I might be touching upon your reply above. Landyabhai ... from a learned man such as yourself ... quote above lacks self-restraint. roflmao
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  #28  
Old December 3rd, 2006, 02:38 AM
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Re: Self-Restraint v/s No Restraint

Landyabhai and Dhurendherbhai ... bit long but worth the tem ... I assure you both. Enjoy.

http://www.ucs.louisiana.edu/~kak740...hilosophy.html
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  #29  
Old December 3rd, 2006, 09:22 AM
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Re: Self-Restraint v/s No Restraint

Quote:
Originally Posted by tantric_yogi
Landyabhai ... if I be permitted to speak freely? Its all about point of view and academics have a word for it ... epistemology ... philosophically speaking ... what is knowledge, how is it acquired, and most important of it all what do we really know? We dont see things as they are, we see them as we are ... goes for you, for yogi and for Dhurendherbhai.

If you are receptive ... I go further or lets forget it. If you permit me to proceed ... I might be touching upon your reply above. Landyabhai ... from a learned man such as yourself ... quote above lacks self-restraint. roflmao
Tantu, I agree with him posting anything but it is ridiculous to post something that outrightly disrespects some personality on the basis that has not been supported properly ... He said Vivekananda was a Total Idiot because he did not recognize Buddha as the one exercising Self-Restraint. I mean, I quoted Vivekananda's words (nothing more, nothing less) which says exactly the opposite to which DhurPai has claimed. I am not arguing here about Philosophical issues. But when a person rejects some other person (not me, I have agreed that I am an IDIOT), a great Personality as an Idiot by providing false claims, I have the right to moderate that statement. That's it.

He can say anything about his philosophy ... He can call me a moron or all of us as a moron without providing any substantial arguments. Exactly in some other thread, I have warned BKN to stop disrespecting some personalities. I mean, discuss spiritual realizations w/o disrespecting the people who provide us with atleast the theoretical basis ... Is it that difficult to do?

--LandYA
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  #30  
Old December 3rd, 2006, 10:29 AM
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Re: Self-Restraint v/s No Restraint

When I pointed out about what Vivekananda had to say about Buddha, is it that difficult for a person to realize that S/he had made an erroneous statement based on an assumption that has been proven to the contrary.

I mean, personally, if that would have happened with me, I would atleast retracted my statement. I would have also given an unconditional apology.

DhurPai, claimed somebody an IDIOT on the basis of what he thinks that personality did not acknowledge that Buddha exercised self-restraint. I just pointed out the *exact words* of that personality that dilutes the condition on which DhurPai bases his claim.

I mean, I dont understand, is it that difficult for somebody to retract their statements? I did not ask for an apology. I asked for a basis for that claim. If there is no basis then what I have cited in opposition to his claim should be accepted and I should be given a chance to retract Dhurandhar's statement.

Moreover, how difficult is it for somebody to participate in a discussion where he does not start his/her statements maligning some personality. Did any of us call Vivekananda an idiot? Was this the topic of this thread? I just solicited examples from echarchans about karma done without any self-interest.

Yes, I have exercised no self-restraint while arguing with somebody but then there is a reason for it. This whole thing would not have happened in the first place, if he wouldnt have maligned anybody and just stuck to what he thinks about self-restraint or no restraint.

--LandYA
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