eCharcha.Com   Support eCharcha.Com. Click on sponsor ad to shop online!

Advertise Here

Go Back   eCharcha.Com > Entertainment > Films

Notices

Films Your pet peeves and raves about new releases

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old October 13th, 2017, 04:24 PM
log1iszero log1iszero is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 786
log1iszero has much to be proud oflog1iszero has much to be proud oflog1iszero has much to be proud oflog1iszero has much to be proud oflog1iszero has much to be proud oflog1iszero has much to be proud oflog1iszero has much to be proud oflog1iszero has much to be proud oflog1iszero has much to be proud of
View and Vision on SLB's upcoming " Padmavati ", when Trailer is alreday out.









SLB is back with another opulent costume drama. With highly divided audience profile of Bollywood, this is one of those few genres which reaches both metro and interior audience.

IMPORTANT NOTICE: No media files are hosted on these forums. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website. We can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. If the video does not play, wait a minute or try again later.
I AGREE


Is this a Copy of Bahubali and Bajirav Peshva ?

Even though trailer is quite interesting, I have huge objection to the way they show Alauddin Khilji.

First of all, let me first assure, I am not interested in typical Hindu Origin vs Muslim Invader debate. My point here is, in majority of mainstream bollywood movies, lot of sterotypes and cliches have gone so hard and reinforced when comes to portraying villians.

Okay, in this movie, its said in POV of Padmini. So definitely Alauddin Khilji will be villian and probably for her, evil. But I don't understand why art designers and production team conceive the villian as PRIMITIVE, BARBARIAN, UNCIVILIZED, LOUD etc, all in process of establishing a DEVILISH appearance or personification of Demon itself.

The villian in this movie, is a Sultan, an emperor. He was born into a Royal family, raised in imperial styled and lived all his life in imperial way. Naturally, even if he was ruthless or brutal, still his body language should have the SHAHIness or Imperial Elegance. Whereas if anyone who watches it, sees Shahid Kapoor's Rawal Ratna Singh in high degree of sophistication while Ranveer's Alauddin Khilji as some sort of primitive tribal etc. sgar pai may not like it,... but ashdoc and Sanelassi pai will like it,.... also aashika will like it the most,...

I feel, its a generic problem with Bollywood these days where in majority drama movies where hardcore villi ans are often projected with certain degrees of cliches and erratic manner. Beyond Bollywood, the worst is in Tollywood, which anyway I am not reviewing.

But even in Tollywood, for Bahubali, Rajamouli has showed how can a hardcore villain appear in sophistication and imperial regalness when he projected Rana as Bhalladeva.

In many movies of North, we see Villians always comes in darker shades clothing, their environment in dark settings, always erratic in behavior... The body language often goes into ridiculing mode, with larger outbursts all of sudden. I often wonder, why directors reinforce these cliches again and again.

Perhaps,
That's because both were from the same royal family. Compare that to how Rajamouli portrayed Kalkeya.

This negative portrayal of the enemy is very common across the world. Even in some of the acclaimed Hollywood films.

And he has a justification for that... The very term Kalakeya in Hindu Myths stands for Danavas, the demons. The first reference of Kalakeyas is related to Vrutraasura, against whom Indra fought and established the right of Throne of Gods.

So mythologically itself, Kalakeyas means demons and had traditional Demonic/devilish imprints (Okay, Hindu description of demons may be different from Bibical demon concepts which are more in today's India visual medium).

In movie Bahubali, there is a reference, that they were tribals, primitives, uncivilized etc and they even talk a language, not common to civilized kingdoms around. Everything is primitive about them. Their arms, weaponry etc.

Thats not case when comes to the EMPEROR OF DELHI SULTANATE. Remember, Chittoor or Mewar was a small kingdom that time, while we are talking about the Emperor of one of India's largest empires- The Delhi Sultanate. They weren't primitive tribals to fashion in form of Kalakeyas as a reference. Doc Dova and SS pai are not watching much movie sso teh opinions nulls anyway,...

In Bahubali, all royal families or kingdoms have similar level of sophiscation, because basically sophistication and elegance is what we call ROYALTY. Thats same for Kunthala warriors who went underground to fight against a Kingdom as Gurrellia warriors. Even as underground warriors, their ruler and soldiers had a certain body language that fits them into civilized world.

I am not taking Bahubali as ultimate reference point... I am just pointing out, Tollywood which has more strong cliche culture for portrayal of villains have shown a change in movie like Bahubali, whereas Bollywood still keeping that even in a movie aimed for global reach.

Well,.. One may say,..
It's the same thing. Just like Kalkeyas were considered barbaric, the Muslim invaders are considered barbaric in Rajasthan as well. In Hollywood films about ancient Greek, the Persians are portrayed like that even though they were a much larger kingdom compared to the Greeks (like Delhi and Mewar).

Its not a fanasty movie, my dear... Bahubali is so fanasty oriented movie, that there is no need to question, how come a primitive society whose haven't got into civilization, be close to a civilized Kingdom, as per its own maps...

Whereas Alauddin Khilji etc is not an imaginary character. Its a real one.

I said before, every invasion for country being invaded will be seen as evil... Does any Oriya Guy sees Ashoka The Great, in positive way? No... The horrors of Kalinga war is always known in that land. Take Ashoka Movie. I perfectly agree, Ashoka Movie has no costumes designed in accordance to its time set. Its all director's creativity.

But you see its hero- SRK having an elegant body language, even when silting the throat of own brother or having his hands fully dipped in blood of thousands of Kalinga men.... That elegance and body language matters, because Ashoka might be an invader, still he was a King. A king's body language is different from a tribal.

In Alexander Movie (2004), the scene where he encounters Paruva, you see the costumes of Indian King not being authentic... But atleast it doesn't look tribal... It has all elegance of royalty, if not true to authentic Indian costumes

What say sgar pai, on thsi movie??

IMPORTANT NOTICE: No media files are hosted on these forums. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website. We can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. If the video does not play, wait a minute or try again later.
I AGREE


Even slowly Hollywood started investing some amount for authenticity, rather going behind stereotypes ,

you will say,..
The Hollywood has failed I think in the authenticity aspect. Please read what Iranians think about films like 300 or Alexander.

if you have seen a good number of Bollywood movies these days, you would have noticed that a significant majority don't have the good vs evil story with villains. Bollywood and Bollywood audience have changed a lot.

That is why the entire Lokhandwala gang (who don't want to be part of TV industry) look towards South for villain roles. Lokhandwala provides steady supply of heroines and villains for Telugu and Tamil movies (Kannada and Malayalam too to a lesser extent). South still produces heavily formulaic commercial good vs evil movies which need those heroines and villains.

BUT, The story is more of imagination from incomplete historical bits. It is as much a fantasy as Bahubali. Even SLB never claimed it is real. Moreover, in a democratic country like India, a commercial historical movie would always be shown in a way the majority audience would accept. Just like how "commercial Hollywood movies" portray other countries and civilizations!!!

Once again, this is a visual spectacle meant for entertainment, not really a history chapter.

ps: IMO, body language is more of an individual trait rather than a family trait (whether it is royal or poor). We see brothers from same family having completely different demeanor and body language.

Also,
I am not talking about the old styled villains surrounded by goons and some harsh looking villains etc.

Now a days, even good looking are becoming villains, its fact. But the problem is rising cliche of associating certain characterizations, certain specific body language, certain theatrics etc to feel evil on screen even at a glance, is somewhat we call stereotypes.

You don't need to do that... The villains or heroes on screen are just like normal anyone around in the society. The evil deeds of villains can be in storyline, why the cliches in creating aura for a villain and similar opposite for hero?

With me, sane pai, so far ?

The problem is, you are reinforcing again and again certain impressions.

I won't say, its Muslims vs Hindu debate here... For example, in Jodha Akbar, we see a highly elegant Hrithik as Akbar, ordering his soldiers to take his own brother and throw him down from terrace which he again orders after finding that the latter hasn't died. Its also a cruelty, but since in the movie, the hero is Akbar, the elegance and sophistication is there for hero even doing a cruel act.

Whereas in the same movie, we see his brother in law Sharifuddin Hussain played by Nikitin Dheer showing all typical cliches of a villain, like erratic anger outbursts, black costumes, shouting of all sudden, facial expressions... The only saving grace was, they didn't make the villain into a tribal that time...

Same when it came to Mohenj Daro movie, with Kabir Bedi...

In romcom movies or inspiration movies, such villain characters are not there, which are more common these days. But in movies political, revenge thrillers etc, where villains do come, you see a huge level of stereotyped, cliched characterization. This is more severe in historical dramas.

Do not me wrong... I am not talking about authenticity of costumes or the story.

I am talking on authenticity of characterization....

In movie Alexander, the way they showed Darius a Persian Emperor of ancient period more like an Islamic King, which is wrong. The costumes resembled more Arab than Persian. But whatever, you see the characterization of Darius as an Emperor in war in all its grandeur, isn't it

IMPORTANT NOTICE: No media files are hosted on these forums. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website. We can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. If the video does not play, wait a minute or try again later.
I AGREE


In Padmavati, the makers made Alauddin Khilji, the imperial sultan of Delhi more like Gabbar Singh of Sholay...

A friend told me,..
The Qasims, Ghaznis, Tughlaqs, Khaljis, Timurs, Shahs, Lodis, Babars et al were no more than ugly (both inside and out) barbarians and should be depicted as such. Apologists can shove it.

That said, I don't care much for films directed by Bhansali. And not OT anymore, see?

My answer would be,
Prejudices can't be helped anyway.... Definitely, we can show the invading Maratha forces into Tanjore or Surat in similar horrific manner.

The Invasion of Pandyas into Chola capital of Gangakodaicholapuram which simply wiped out a great imperial city to mere ruins of today, that once a great imperial city, has reduced to mere village even today. Invasion is invasion and horrors of invasion is always same, whether its Hindu Ashoka or Parvathy worshiping Pandyas or Thugalaks or Barbar etc.

Well, there is a tamil movie called Ayarathil Oruvan which is pucca Fantasy movie based on Chola's civilization's sudden disappearance from face of world due to Pandyan invasion and the extreme cruelties that lead to complete extinction of a dynasty itself.

The opening scenes of this movie has shown the horrors of invasion of a fellow Hindu city, named after Lord Shiva and Ganga by Pandyas, who always take pride to the adherent devotees of Parvathy.

Kalidas will sure like this,...

IMPORTANT NOTICE: No media files are hosted on these forums. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website. We can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. If the video does not play, wait a minute or try again later.
I AGREE


Despite of being a fantasy movie and that talks about possible survival of a Chola clan in somewhere remote interiors of the world, maintaining their civilization, they show the surviving Chola King in all its ancient regal manner. The biggest criticism this movie faced in Tamil Nadu was its portrayal of last clan of Cholas as tribals, primitive to the core etc, whereas the director justified in media that people who are deprived of all world connections are likely to be primitive, but even in such cases, the ruling class are very likely to keeping its regal outlook.

You see that in the movie. While you see a clan struck in time capsule as primitive society, still their king and its members of royal family maintaining a royal elegance.

Yes, movies are creative work of directors, but there should be a logic.... Portraying an invader as tribal, primitive is not a matter of imagination, rather ignorance as well as reinforcement of sterotypes.

However my friend thinks that,
" This is exactly what happens in south movies. Not in Bollywood. Yes those villains are models from Lokhandwala. The good-vs evil stories are far and few in Bollywood. Padmavati is one of that very few. In Padmavati, he is an anti-hero rather than those traditional villains of south movies. Bahubali and almost all Hollywood Sci fi movies fall under that category where characters are portrayed either black or white, which is far from reality.

The director need not have the same vision as yours. Sorry, I am not great in history. But, portraying one character in certain manner does not mean anything for a clan,. Your aayirathil oruvan example is different as the entire clan is portrayed as tribals. Wait for the full movie to pass your judgement.

The same Bollywood showed Akbar in good light in Jodha Akbar. That doesn' t mean that whole clan is gentle.

btw, SLB is just a mainstream director who gives visually pleasing movies. That is it. No need of scratching head over his imaginary stories. "

In a way, history is taught across the world in a simple "black or white" fashion (as seen from that country's perspective. No wonder all period movies portray characters as simple "black or white".

I wasn't great in 'History' during school days. If I remember, Nehru and Indira Gandhi were described as heroes of the country in the text books. Two centuries down , you never know that could be the belief among the general population

Also padmavati is only semi-historical since it is likely based on the poem padmavat. That poem is clearly written in a manner that shows padmavati as epitome of grace and khilji as a marauding barbarian. So bhansali isn't doing anything wrong since he is merely adapting from the source.

Perhaps my views were based on that 1 or 2 critics who want to get that limelight by nitpicking. And you used that to generalize Bollywood without understanding what kind of movies it makes!!! It may not make great movies, but it doesn't make those formula movies with villains.

Now just sample this from that specific 1 or 2 critics

Surely, these critics need some good dictionary!!!

History is highly imaginary and it is absolutely silly that these critics think that every king in a dynasty has similar body language and characteristics.

The sickularists and anti hindu like you are a problem in india. Marathas looted surat to bring back looted wealth taken by muslim invaders. And unlike muslim invaders they did not raped or killed innocents because of their religion. Timur lung has mentioned killing lakhs of hindus in a day in his autobiography. Millions of hindus died in hindu kush mountains when they were taken as slaves. No where in history you will find this level of barbery. And that muslim invador in SLB movie wanted rani padmavati even after she made him her brother. Such was their level . If SLB movie changes history i m not watching it.

Muslim appologists can try Infinite times but they will not find parallel barbarity level. Chattrapati shivaji maharaj was a ideal king to the level that even his enemies said he could do no wrong and this is as per their accounts only .































What ashdoc thinks, let see,.....

.

Last edited by log1iszero; October 13th, 2017 at 04:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old October 13th, 2017, 04:44 PM
log1iszero log1iszero is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 786
log1iszero has much to be proud oflog1iszero has much to be proud oflog1iszero has much to be proud oflog1iszero has much to be proud oflog1iszero has much to be proud oflog1iszero has much to be proud oflog1iszero has much to be proud oflog1iszero has much to be proud oflog1iszero has much to be proud of
Re: View and Vision on SLB's upcoming " Padmavati ", when Trailer is alreday out.









Well,........ the protrayal of Black and white is definitely understandable. But protrayal of associating Black into Hell and White into Heaven is exactly where I feel the problems comes.

My point is simple. Yes, this is a movie or a story where you have a hero, villian etc. And Villian will always be negative, which can be expressed in storyline, why in aura and characterization?

Its where sterotypes works higher and reinforcement of such sterotypes as targetted.

Just for example, we all know the story of Ramayana... We all know, Ravana is the villian of the story, Ram is the hero of the story. Its there for ages.

But in olden days, be it in scriptures, be it plays and be it dramas or serials, Ravana was always shown in majestic manner. Why so? Because the original scriptures itself says, Ravana was a great scholar, a great culturalist who loves poetry, who plays Rudraveena that even make Vindayas to bend down, a great connoisseur of arts, someone whom Lankans love for making the entire island into Gold, someone whose glory has crossed all over the three worlds etc. As a result, historically Ravana wasn't seen just as another demon etc, rather in a very majestic manner.

In 1980s when Ramanand Sagar made Ramayana serial, around 15 mins of serial time was dedicated to praise the greatness of Ravana as his introduction. Let see what ashdoc thinks,..

IMPORTANT NOTICE: No media files are hosted on these forums. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website. We can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. If the video does not play, wait a minute or try again later.
I AGREE


Now,...Such a massive introduction wasn't even shown for Ram itself....

As time changed, the typical Bollywoodish stereotyping has started into serial sectors... As multiple serials passed, Ravan character has changed from its majesty outlook as done past to more of typical cliches associated with villianry of Bollywood. The acting, facial expression, the body language all changed as time passed to more of typical bollywood villians style.

For example you can see in the last Ravan introduction as that of Hanuman serial

IMPORTANT NOTICE: No media files are hosted on these forums. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website. We can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. If the video does not play, wait a minute or try again later.
I AGREE


Even such levels of cliches have became standard when you talk about Ravan generally in all visual medium.

Yes, villians do exist... But why villianry goes overboard on visual appearance? When you can do that in story, whats the point in overdoing the characterization?

Thats the problem with many of these.... sgar pai, with me?

The same Bollywood showed Akbar in good light in Jodha Akbar. That doesn' t mean that whole clan is gentle.


Its not matter of clan... The matter is if the movie talks Hero, he will be always gentle and sophisticated even doing at heights of evilness, the same if done by Villain of the story will be over-extaggerated to an extreme evil aura.

I said, in movie Ashoka, you see SRK having a very sophisticated body language even during silting throat of his own brother. Had this character was the villain of the story, the same scene would have shown in a horrific manner, as if its some devil doing it...

Its this sort of characterization what I am questioning.

One may say,..
Also padmavati is only semi-historical since it is likely based on the poem padmavat. That poem is clearly written in a manner that shows padmavati as epitome of grace and khilji as a marauding barbarian. So bhansali isn't doing anything wrong since he is merely adapting from the source.

Barbarian is doesn't mean tribal or something like that... When you see the few scenes in the trailer, you feel, the massive difference in showing a sophiscated Rajput vs Tribal Khilji kind of image when in reality both are royals.

You can see a scene of invasion by Ashoka in movie Asoka against Kalinga which all recorded as most brutal in history. After all, its was at excess of brutality, even Asoka had a change of mind. So despite of brutality on scenes, you see the warrior invader keeping the aura of regality on his body language. Let see what Kalidas has his own view,..

IMPORTANT NOTICE: No media files are hosted on these forums. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website. We can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. If the video does not play, wait a minute or try again later.
I AGREE


Thats happened, because the movie has Asoka as hero, not vice versa. But if Hero can be shown extremely brutal, why not a villain have similar composite or regal manner in similar brutality?

You may also say,...
Thats where reinforcement of stereotypes works to push the movie in market.

Ofcourse, its all creativity and freedom of directors. But unforunately it also creates very wrong narrative patterns in my opinion.

Well bro,..Your points are true, however we can treat them as just movies and not historical documents. The filmmaker takes the artistic liberty with the characters, events and timelines to tell a story that they wish to tell. It's subjective and we can't say this is how a story should be told. It can't be objective - that all invaders are wild and ugly barbarians or that all must be shown with their human/regal side intact. You can have straight black and white narrative or a grey narrative. We can just say if the movie is done well or bad.

Even with some historic fiction hollywood epics, we have Braveheart that made the villain/s pretty stereotypical and The last Samurai had antagonists that were morally ambiguous.

Grey narrative mostly give deeper movies. It is when you have a darker side in a hero and human side in the villain, you get deeper, richer and mature stories. For eg. In hollywood, Marvel usually goes with a straight up conflict between good vs evil narrative, which is simple, appeals to most people young and old right at the surface...and DC goes with the conflicts within heroes and between the protagonist and antagonist on ambiguous justifications, and gives a grey picture/moral conflict for its characters....which is true to real world - most good people have bad sides in them and most bad people have good sides to them. For eg. Joker, Bane, Zod, Lex, Ra's al ghoul...etc have been shown in the movies as people with reasonable justifications for the villainy that they indulge in. Gen. Zod in MOS was made/programmed in Krypton to protect/save his people no matter what the cost is, even if he had to go against his own leaders or even if it means killing all life on earth. The intended purpose of his existence is to protect his people's survival. He is doing it to save his species....and there is a moral justification to his actions from his perspective, however from a human POV, he is this monster that came from the sky to kill all life on earth. He is not shown in the movie as some evil marauder. He and Faora are shown as valiant fighters, soldiers. His status of general does make you feel for him.

IMPORTANT NOTICE: No media files are hosted on these forums. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website. We can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. If the video does not play, wait a minute or try again later.
I AGREE


These layered, in depth characters and portrayals make the story rich, mature and better. But, it is up to the film maker to make that call....or they can go with a formulaic monster villain. Most formulaic villain/hero stereotypes only make a bad movie....unless it is done well with good script, plot, acting and action. Villainy, just for the sake of villainy will not make a good movie. It looks like that's how they have made this movie,but got to wait and see. aashika you must agree to this,...

However I should not repeat my point of repeat your point on stereotype of Bollywood villains as Bollywood hardly has those traditional villains any more, except possibly in 2-3% of movies.

TV industry is not Bollywood, as it has very different audience in the interiors. Even there you nitpick some period dramas with your own imagination where none could understand your viewpoints.

ps: Ranveer clothes look royal. It is his mannerisms which is shown as crude. But for a perosn who has such a controversial history behind him, it really is not off the mark There is no proof that a king should behave in a certain way.I that case, Rahul Gandhi, Indira, Rajiv and Nehru and may be even Lalu should have same body language and mannerisms

You may also say,.. not great in history and I just read some historical articles after this debate here. The movie hardly captures 10% of what is written in those historical evidences. He seems to be a person who massacred thousands of people and raped numerous women on a single day (just for the heck of it). Deaths in war are different . The portrayal of his character in the movie looks reasonable if one believes those stories in public.

Now, those may or may not be true but one can't say that a director should not believe those. Unlike most of Hollywood movies, which are real fantasy and choose simple black or white characters.

But so be it,... I stick to what I say, like sgar pai...does...


http://www.timesnownews.com/business...jamouli/104816
























Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old October 13th, 2017, 04:44 PM
log1iszero log1iszero is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 786
log1iszero has much to be proud oflog1iszero has much to be proud oflog1iszero has much to be proud oflog1iszero has much to be proud oflog1iszero has much to be proud oflog1iszero has much to be proud oflog1iszero has much to be proud oflog1iszero has much to be proud oflog1iszero has much to be proud of
Re: View and Vision on SLB's upcoming " Padmavati ", when Trailer is alreday out.






Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Poonam Pandey Detained for "indecent" behaviour, "Released" later raniraja Taaza Khabar - Current news 8 May 6th, 2014 11:55 AM
Use Section "49-O" of the Election Commissions Code of Conduct Rules to "Not Vote" zyzzva Indian Politics 8 January 5th, 2009 06:50 PM
"Out sick", "WFH", "Leaving Early"...howz it in your company? shahenshah Life Abroad 7 December 8th, 2006 12:43 AM
Of "Single gals " AND "Double Degree Prospects " Prodigy Cultural Exchange 6 March 24th, 2003 12:19 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Site Copyright © eCharcha.Com 2000-2012.