Bullet Train

[sgars]

At TOILET

The 508km long Mumbai-Ahmedabad high speed rail corridor will have a 21km long tunnel under the sea, said a senior railway ministry official involved with the public transporter's ambitious bullet train project.
While most part of the corridor is proposed to be on the elevated track, there will be a stretch after Thane creek towards Virar which will go under the sea as per the detailed project report by JICA.
Estimated to cost about Rs 97,636 crore, 81 per cent of the funding for the project, will come in form of a loan from Japan. The project cost includes possible cost escalation, interest during construction and import duties.
It is a soft loan for 50 years at 0.1 per cent annual interest with 15 years' moratorium, said the official.
Rolling stock and other equipment like signalling and power system will be imported from Japan as per the loan agreement.
The official said the loan agreement with Japan is slated to be signed by the end of the year and construction work is likely to begin by the end of 2018.
According top priority to the first of its kind project, railways has formed National High Speed Rail Corporation Limited (NHSRCL), a special purpose vehicle (SPV), with a paid-up capital of Rs 500 crore.

[sgars]

Money of this from {akistan Today site
The proposed bullet train between Mumbai and Ahmedabad will have to ferry 88,000-118,000 passengers per day, or undertake 100 trips daily, for the Railways to keep it financially viable, says a report by Indian Institute of Management Ahmedabad (IIM-A).
The report is titled, "Dedicated High Speed Railway (HSR) Networks in India: Issues in Development,".
Report states that if the Railways set the ticket price at Rs 1500 per person for 300-km drive, then fifteen years after the operation it will have to ferry between 88,000 and 110,000 passengers every day to ensure that it repays the loans with interest on time.

Japan has offered a concessional loan of Rs 97,636 crore to fund about 80 per cent of the project cost with a repayment period of 50 years beginning from the 16th year of operation at an interest rate of 0.1 per cent.


For the remaining 20 per cent loan, the authors assume 8 per cent average rate of interest (on Rs 20,000 crore to be funded by Centre).
Japan has offered a 15-year moratorium on loan, so revenue concerns for the Indian Railways will arise from the 16th year of operation, the authors stated in the paper.
The total distance covered by the train will be 534 kilometres.
The paper has been jointly authored by faculty members G Raghuram, professor of the institute's Public Systems Group, and Prashanth Udayakumar.
While the actual operating cost fifteen years after the bullet train becomes operational, is not known, the paper assumes two scenarios by pegging operating cost at 20 per cent and 40 per cent of revenue.
"So if the Railways earn Rs 100 revenue, Rs 20 or Rs 40 will go for maintenance, and remaining surplus money will go for cash payment of loan with interest. Now, to cover the loan with operating cost in two scenarios, we consider passengers travelling an average distance of 300 kilometres. In this case, we will need 88,000-118,000 passengers respectively for both the scenarios," Raghuram said.
"Typically one train carries 800 passengers, so to carry 88,000 passengers daily, you will need to take a total of 100 trips, or 50 trips each way. So, we need three trains every hour in each direction," he said.
As per the paper, "there are many positive benefits and externalities of the HSR which would be useful in India's overall aspirational development."

[sgars]

Before all start jumping, some questions and Concerns.

- Bullet Train started in Japan in 70s. Are we paying so much though through a soft loan for a 40 year old Technology??

- China got the Maglev train from Germany. Why cant we shoot for that?? Japan is also developing the Technology.

All said and done despite all the drawbacks and looking like some 19th century relic, Indian railways is one of the few rail networks that runs without govt subsidy (except for a brief period when Mumtaz was the rail minister under ABV). Many of the European High speed networks (or for that matter local trains) run with government subsidy. So, if we are planning to spend money on Technology, why not go full swing rather than a 40 year technology.

What is the viability of this compared to say Air travel.

[kalidas]

Originally Posted by sgars

Before all start jumping, some questions and Concerns.....

You talking to yourself partner? Or did you forget to logoff and login with different id?

[sgars]

Originally Posted by kalidas

You talking to yourself partner? Or did you forget to logoff and login with different id?

It is 2 different nooze items and then my take. I preferred 3 posts to one long post. Looks like you are badly missing someone who put long posts.

[BABU_HYDERABADI]

Originally Posted by sgars

Before all start jumping, some questions and Concerns.

- Bullet Train started in Japan in 70s. Are we paying so much though through a soft loan for a 40 year old Technology??

- China got the Maglev train from Germany. Why cant we shoot for that?? Japan is also developing the Technology.

All said and done despite all the drawbacks and looking like some 19th century relic, Indian railways is one of the few rail networks that runs without govt subsidy (except for a brief period when Mumtaz was the rail minister under ABV). Many of the European High speed networks (or for that matter local trains) run with government subsidy. So, if we are planning to spend money on Technology, why not go full swing rather than a 40 year technology.

What is the viability of this compared to say Air travel.

a Maglev would cost atleast twice the bullet train cost. Also you should see that China only implemented that maglev system on one line, that brings airport passengers into the city, but when it came to implementing High Speed rail systems they went with the good old bullet train system.

[Sane Less]

Once they build this, will Bollywood make an action/thriller/suspense movie on this I think for once Bollywood should advance on the idea before the rail corridor is built... and then donate all earnings to repayment of the loan

[sgars]

Thanks Babu pai for the info.

Did some wikiing and found that the Shanghai Maglev is a 'White elephant'

Also, Maglev itself has been around since 70s. So it is not new either.

There is international politics also behind this.
The Shanghai Maglev was built by Germans to show a middle finger to Japan by China. There is a chance Modi Sarkar wants to do the same to China with this.

[BABU_HYDERABADI]

Originally Posted by sgars

Thanks Babu pai for the info.

Did some wikiing and found that the Shanghai Maglev is a 'White elephant'

Also, Maglev itself has been around since 70s. So it is not new either.

There is international politics also behind this.
The Shanghai Maglev was built by Germans to show a middle finger to Japan by China. There is a chance Modi Sarkar wants to do the same to China with this.

Yes it is 70's technology, but they have been improving on the electrical needs and the weight each magnet can bear

[BABU_HYDERABADI]

Originally Posted by sgars

Thanks Babu pai for the info.

Did some wikiing and found that the Shanghai Maglev is a 'White elephant'

Also, Maglev itself has been around since 70s. So it is not new either.

There is international politics also behind this.
The Shanghai Maglev was built by Germans to show a middle finger to Japan by China. There is a chance Modi Sarkar wants to do the same to China with this.

Maglev as a concept existed since before WW-I. Japan built its version and germany its version. And as we all know china hates japan, chineese went with german technology for their maglev.

[Aashika]

Why does it need to go under water? cant they build on land? Its not like Mumbai and Ahmedabad are separated by Atlantic (example) where you have no option but to go under/over/above water? pardon my ignorance.

[swami]

Originally Posted by Aashika

Why does it need to go under water? cant they build on land? Its not like Mumbai and Ahmedabad are separated by Atlantic (example) where you have no option but to go under/over/above water? pardon my ignorance.

Railways between many places have to cross rivers,small streams,etd so same with the upcoming Bullet trains so the underwater over water etc

[Aashika]

Originally Posted by swami

Railways between many places have to cross rivers,small streams,etd so same with the upcoming Bullet trains so the underwater over water etc

I am thinking out loud here...isnt the cost to build a track over the ground/ around the stream/ over the stream a fraction of what underwater track costs?
am sure they thought of this; just curious what was the rationale behind such an expensive project.

[kkkk]

Originally Posted by Aashika

I am thinking out loud here...isnt the cost to build a track over the ground/ around the stream/ over the stream a fraction of what underwater track costs?
am sure they thought of this; just curious what was the rationale behind such an expensive project.

thats only capex you are looking at. there is a massive opex saving there somewhere.

its like worli sea link. I am sure it was a massive project and there were land routes already available. But ask people who regularly use it - its a massive blessing.

[Sane Less]

Originally Posted by Aashika

I am thinking out loud here...isnt the cost to build a track over the ground/ around the stream/ over the stream a fraction of what underwater track costs?
am sure they thought of this; just curious what was the rationale behind such an expensive project.

It is mostly distance. If you look at a map, the direct distance between Bombay to A'bad is about a tenth of the distance you would normally take by land. This saves both distance and time.