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  #61  
Old August 3rd, 2017, 10:24 AM
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Re: Who says Shivaji was not a Shudra?????

One should not be looking at the caste-system from a scientific point of view... but rather from a sociological point of view. I will have to create a new blog to explain this theory of mine... maybe some day. But agar gaur pharmaye, then the caste-system makes a perfect sense... and has a natural way of formation. It happens every where... every time. It is happening right here... at echarcha.com itself. Nature's recourse to survival.

Edit: It fact, the caste-system can be used to explain many a scientific theory
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  #62  
Old August 3rd, 2017, 07:47 PM
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Re: Who says Shivaji was not a Shudra?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashdoc View Post
shivaji came from the caste known as 'kunbi' . the word 'kunbi' was a corruption of the marathi word 'kuneebi' which literally means 'anybody' . thus any cultivator of land who was classified as 'shudra' by brahmins could be classified as from 'kunbi' caste .

but 'shudra' does not mean dalit . those who call themselves dalits in the modern age came from castes such as 'mahar' 'mang' etc who cleaned human excreta . a 'kunbi' was a 'shudra' not a dalit . according to ancient hinduism 'shudra' was the lowermost of the four hindu castes , but still he was a hindu . however according to ancient hinduism the 'mahars' 'mangs' etc were outside the pale of hinduism as they did demeaning tasks like cleaning human excreta . they were considered no better than the 'chandals' who stole human corpses and ate them . only after the islamic conquest were the dalits considered to be part of hinduism otherwise they were not a caste but were outcastes and untouchables .

but the 'kunbis' who were 'shudras' were not untouchables or outcastes . a brahmin could touch them without defiling himself . the word 'shudra' is demeaning however ; it means 'amounting to nothing' . thus a 'kunbi' like shivaji amounted to nothing in the eyes of the haughty brahmins . so they were reluctant to do his coronation . he had to invite gaga bhatt from varanasi who was ready to declare shivaji as 'kshatriya' after being bribed by a sum of money .

but the problem was---after parshuram had killed all the 'kshatriyas' in the ancient era there were no 'kshatriyas' left . the only ones who were accepted as 'kshatriya' by brahmins were the rajputs . so shivaji was declared a rajput descended from the most honourable rajput clan---the sisodiyas who had honoured themselves by never giving their daughters to mughals unlike other rajputs .

who shivaji's desperation for his acceptance as 'kshatriya' ? he was desperate to get himself coronated as king in the same manner as lord Ram had been coronated ; indeed the sisodiyas claimed descent from lord Ram . shivaji's intention was to revive the ancient practice of coronation of kings that had been forgotten by hindus in centuries of islamic rule . he wanted to set his kingdom directly as rival and challenger of the mughal empire and his coronation became a grand affair that resonated across india and tomtommed the rise of a hindu kingdom . the lengths to which shivaji went to appease the truculent brahmins is not short of statesmanlike ; others would have lost patience at their haughty demeanour . and only the brahmins could coronate him as king ; only their acceptance of shivaji as king would convince the common people that a king had been born among them---for the common people were totally under the influence of brahmins . and shivaji succeeded where lesser mortals would have failed.

---ashdoc .
Cool description. Thanks
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  #63  
Old August 3rd, 2017, 09:18 PM
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Re: Who says Shivaji was not a Shudra?????

Gaga Bhat was invited to perform the coronation because the Brahmans of Maharashtra expressed their inability to conduct the coronation as 'properly' as Shivaji desired.
Shivaji showered all that wealth on Gaga Bhat out of pleasure and gratitude, AND, out of a strong desire to enable the likes of Gaga Bhat to run his ashram more efficiently so that MORE such accomplished (really well versed in the shastras and knowledge of Sanatan dharma) students were produced.
BRAHMAN HATERS STUPIDLY CALL IT A BRIBE!
---------------Are we to believe that ALL THE ERUDITE BRAHMANS in Shivajis domain were so upright that NONE of them could be bribed into performing that SPECIAL coronation?!!
Gaga Bhat was akin to the American surgeons invited to treat MGR, Vajpayee etc..( the Vajpayee surgeon was, I believe, conferred with a Padmashree. Was that a 'bribe'?).
------And the 'Mahars moving excreta is an illogical accusation: More of it later!
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  #64  
Old August 4th, 2017, 03:08 AM
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Re: Who says Shivaji was not a Shudra?????

Another spectacular example of marathas being regarded as shudra ( actually in Sanskrit the word is kshudra) is the ill fated love affair of Prince deependra of Nepal. He was in love with a girl from the shinde ( scindia ) family of gwalior. Inspite of the girl belonging to a royal family herself, the marriage was opposed by his parents because the girl was a maratha and therefore a shudra , while the royal family of Nepal was of rajput descent .

But They had not reckoned with crown Prince deependra and his anger at the refusal. He shot dead all his family and the rest is history......
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  #65  
Old August 4th, 2017, 07:08 AM
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Re: Who says Shivaji was not a Shudra?????

It all started from the olden timen vedas, shruti, smiriti,.... all such baloney,… Those, who were smart at that time like rishi-muni-tapashwee,.... and were doing pooja-sadhna-aaradhna,.. mediation,.... declared themselves as smart Brahmins,.. who were fighter force, hot-bloods and well body-builts,.. called them Kshtriya,.. vyopari, bania, vanik,.. as vaishya and those all doing sheedy-shitty ( collecting potty and cleaning open toilets, removing those stuff with hand and carry in the baskets, over their heads,.. and moving and removing,..., cleaning the streets,... ) cart-pulling and other labor work,…– shudra,..
and there was a valid reason for telling them untouchable, as the “topla” they wee carrying and shifting was of "Potty" and had to remove such things manually, as Toilets and Sewer system was not in existence,.. everyone can not go far to the far river banks,... especially ladies, old people and kids,..

Then, coined it in Vedas,……w/ the BS saying,.... by self-proclaimed geniuses of that time like tulsi, rahim, kabir,..
Brahmin mastisk mein se banaaye gaye,.
Aur, shudra poonth ( bum/butt ) mein se,. yada yada,..

During those times, Shudra also had to tie a mitti ki kulhaari on their neck, so that they can not spit on the road,.. also had to tie Bushes of tree-barks and leaves behind their legs so that wherever they walk, their foot- impression will be wiped out automatically,…

Perhaps at that time they had reasoning to allot particular department of work to particular caste, tribe and community,.. as per their bloods heat, nature, body-built, brain-power, cleanliness, and such….. nature,…

But later,.. when the time has changed,… Now no1 is required to lift others’ pee and poos a on his/her head to remove it from the living locality,….
but,..we took it to a totally different level and today we are struggling with SC/ST/ dalit, peedit, aarakshan and all such BS,..

Nobody is now trying the understanding the situation and requirement of that time, .........but trying to now to take the advantage of this SC/ST logo ( as per Mr. Ambedkar fakked up the constitution) to its best,..
Big B even would even, while becoming a beggar, would say that I am a Kissan,.. if he gets benefited,..
and I know 25+ Gujarat castes and creed, who “Forcefully” declared themselves under SC/ST, so that on the basis of Merit / reservation and all advantages in job and education / medical, they can have,..




Last edited by log1iszero; August 4th, 2017 at 07:18 AM.
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