No Reservation for Muslims?

[sarv_shaktimaan]

Beginning of a revolution perhaps?

[BABU_HYDERABADI]

Originally Posted by sarv_shaktimaan

Beginning of a revolution perhaps?

this is fake news. In UP, Private medical colleges never had reservations for OBC's. And this also is only for MD seats only.

[jeetiaf]

Originally Posted by BABU_HYDERABADI

Please do not generalize, i have personally known genius who came out of zilla praja parishad schools. A hard working student be it from a remote rural or a city can survive in any situation thrown at them. If one does not get reservation and get in to BSC instead of engineering, a good student always comes on the top.
That being said i am against reservation(even students who get -ve marks in medical and engineering entrance exams get in to MBBS or BE seats and upper caste students who scored 90% do not). The only way to remove the social inequalities is to give additional marks to students who are from a poor family and or coming from a rural area.

Upper caste candidate lost to his own kin who had around 50 % of open seat so as a state they are getting 99% scoring people as well. Those who got negative marks will have to pass exam in same institution with same passing standard. Actually all the general category people who lose out, they lose out to their own category people.

Originally Posted by swami

Reservation was planned only for few years after Independence but it became a strong tools in the hands of politicians.
Till date on the strong and influential of the reserved categories reap the full benefits for SC,ST,BC EB etc meant for them,its very rare that poor of these caste get jobs or admissions.

So in short reservation is only for rich and influential and it will be same if Muslims are included

Reservation are here to stay, India always voted in favour of it and will keep on it

Originally Posted by sarv_shaktimaan

One facet of reservation is that those that are backward SC ST, etc will pay less fee, but coming from a middle class family, I was paying 35K per year for engineering and rich SC ST buggers were paying 3K a year. This was my first personal exposure to how BS this reservation crap is.

The system is lopsided in the favor of anybody who can furnish a SC ST OBC what have you certificate. The basis should be economic status but that is as easily faked as backward class certificate.

No it is not easy to furnish backward caste certificate, it is decided at the moment of our birth and cannot be changed unlike economic condition. Almost everybody marries in his own caste, live in area populated by same caste people. Discriminates on the basis of birth superiority and get all sanskars done by people of certain caste.
Privileged castes own more than 50% of India's wealth. Without looking into list I can tell you top 100 richest people in India will have more than 95% people of forward caste then a few OBCs and Muslim and definately no SC/ST

Originally Posted by Bhidubhai

I have no probs in dalits getting reservation but dont think Muslims deserve it.

Again, isnt reservation different from renting, etc.?

Point I want to raise is that discrimination is not on economic condition, it is on the basis of caste and religion. A rich and poor brahmin are more likely to get married than a rich dalit and poor Yadav.

Originally Posted by rationalthinker

"PASSING MARKS" are the barest minimum considered necessary to 'accept' an incumbent as 'qualified' to pursue the job, profession etc.. that 'THAT EXAM' is held for.
The difference in the expertness and proficiency is reflected (unless the 'topper' is from UP,Bihar!) in the '%age' difference that exists between the barely passed, and the 95%er.
Granted that both are taught from the same syllabus, but the diligence, innate intelligence, efforts etc.. between the students gets reflected in HOW MUCH is eventually grasped by each of them------and it invariably SHOWS!

Actually, merit means ability to do a given job or task. How well that job/task is done, is 'excellence'------and it can easily be judged by the resources (time taken, qtty. of materials used etc..) used-----the excellent use minimum, and the mediocre use much much more!
------In local parlance, we use 'merit', when we actually mean 'excellence'!

Assuming both have 6 CGPA, reserved candidate and general candidate, how would be decide excellence?

Originally Posted by kkkk

bhai if there is really no difference in output, why judge the input at all based on ANY criteria? lets just ask everyone who is interested to apply and then pick our candidates from lottery! atleast system will be fairer to every candidate and we wont have to listen to drivel about reservations for this caste or that religion.

apply the same to armed forces, abolish SSBs, abolish all entrances - afterall as long as exit criteria is stringent and uniform, it should not matter?

Selection in Armed forces is not by merit, it is by selection and that is the process that I was trying to advocate all along, In SSB, if anyone here has attended one, nobody asks about "roll on top maneuver" or Drum rolls in the test. One might have topped NDA written exam but might never make out to be clear from SSB. I had a friend in my battalion in NDA with surname Kambli from Dharavi Slum, he consistently had poor percentage but it always increased by 1 % finally reaching 55% in 12th. He finally graduated into Indian Navy and is now a Wulur lake boy. What are his chances of becoming an engineer in IIT or doctor from AIIMS? None.

People who get selected in IITs are generally asked question of BSc Physics of IIIrd Year. They may or may not have aptitude for it but are coached to clear exam and hence they become fantasy writers, TVF people and some good engineers.

Originally Posted by BABU_HYDERABADI

people keep repeating this BS till the time it comes to them. For example if you are to have a life altering surgery, would you pick a guy who took 10 years to pass MBBS with bare minimum or some one who scored 90+% and passed MBBS in a single go??

I would also ask why have such passing criteria, how can someone get degree in at the end of 10th year. I am all for cancelling such graduation. It doesn't happen in AFMC though their is women reservation of 25 women per batch. And some of them might have scored less than boys who didn't get in.

Originally Posted by BABU_HYDERABADI

this is fake news. In UP, Private medical colleges never had reservations for OBC's. And this also is only for MD seats only.

Every state has reservation for its own people, 50% of people of same state, so we don't try to find out merit in the people coming from another state. People of UP won't like people from Assam coming and getting a seat even if it is 99%

jeetIAF

[sgars]

Originally Posted by jeetiaf

People who get selected in IITs are generally asked question of BSc Physics of IIIrd Year. They may or may not have aptitude for it but are coached to clear exam and hence they become fantasy writers, TVF people and some good engineers.

They dont (at least in 80s didnt) ask about partial differentials, differential equation, de moivre's theorem, etc. It is just more twisted questions from what is there in class 11th and 12th and how one does not view each stream in isolation.

One question with a bit of twist was "Is it possible to launch a satellite that remains over New Delhi all the time"

Answer is NO - The Geostationary satellites have to be over the equator

Another one was to find integral of root cos x. It involves calculus, binomial theorem, etc.

The questions go beyond board exams and need the examinee to understand and interlink concepts. In 80s Agrawal and brilliant made students think in tat mode. Now, Kota institutes have taken nover.

[sgars]

There is no reservation for CAs. how many Muslims are CAs? The most famous/infamous one i remember is Yakub Memon.

In 40s, one of the concerns was that all the government posts would be filled by Hindus. This was also a ground for asking partition.

[rationalthinker]

Assuming both have 6 CGPA, reserved candidate and general candidate, how would be decide excellence?-------Jeetiaf.


In that case, the choice is obviously between Tweedledee and Tweedledum!
But, because of the evil reservations and quotas, a reserved guy with 6 CGPA gets preference over a guy with 8-9 CGPA!----And that MEANS mediocrity is being put on a pedestal!


In the armed forces, even physical attributes matter, so, the discretion of the 'selectors' is important!------------So long as the evil of caste and religion isn't a factor in the final selection, the selection will automatically be reasonably fair, and it doesn't matter if ALL those selected are Sikhs, Muslims, Brahmins, tribals, SC/ST etc..------because they will have had been considered as simple Indians!----And that is what 'merit' is all about!

[Bhidubhai]

Demanding reservations has become a fad. Be it Marathas in MH, Jatts in Harayana, Patels in Guj, Muslims, etc. What these people need to understand is that, firstly, the reservations enshrined in the constitution are for historically oppressed people who had absolutely no representation in the higher echelons. Secondly, these people who are enjoying reservations today were forced to do the most despicable jobs of the society and treated inhumanely for 1000s of years. So how many Marathas, Jatts, Patels or Muslim descended from such ancestry? If they want reservations, then let them devolve to the level SC/STs were, not thousands of years ago but at least, during independence. Let them take up manuel scavenging, be denied corporation/well water, move to the outskirts, be denied education, be enslaved to some chewtiya, etc...I hope people get the picture. And then let them decide if it is worth living like that for a few years to qualify for reservation. Apne aap MC logon ka pura nautanki bandh ho jayega. Bheekhmange saale!

[rationalthinker]

There already are Brahmin scavengers in quite a few Municipalities------and Dalits are cribbing that these savarnas are now 'encroaching' on their traditional domains!
By the way, "Housekeeping jobs" are 'sophisticated' scavenging jobs!As for higher echelons, forget just Dalits, India has had even 'slaves' as rulers!
Also, who were Walmiki,Vyas, Atri, Shrunga (eventual bro. in law of Prabhu Ram), Matang etc.. etc.. etc..?
----------OK., they were all figments of imagination (----Ram didn't exist: secular congress petition in court)!
What about the Mauryas? Or the Nandas before them? Also Adi Sankara's Manisha Panchaka?
And then again, two wrongs don't make a right: If caste was evil then, it is evil now too!

[sgars]

Originally Posted by swami

And hear lottery machine tampering/rigging by khujliwaal and other fools ?

This is the last post of Swami in April.
Again, RIP Swami

[sarv_shaktimaan]

Originally Posted by sgars

This is the last post of Swami in April.
Again, RIP Swami

yeah, I was reading his posts.. also checked on twitter.

[Shringarey]

There is a story I heard somewhere (Don't remember where) about a Muslim guy who wanted to study Pali. He apparently went to University and was told that the subject has 100% reservation for SC/ST, because it was language of Buddha. He asked to only sit during lessons so he learns, but not sit for exam. Even this was denied. Finally, out of frustration he entered a distant education online Pali course from Thailand. Thankfully it worked out well because of internet. Don't you think if there was reservation for Muslims he would not have to face injustice?

Is it fair to have Pali only for SCs (Hindus) or nava budhists but not for Muslims? It is unfair is it not? That is point of Muslim Reservation

[Sane Less]

Originally Posted by Shringarey

There is a story I heard somewhere (Don't remember where) about a Muslim guy who wanted to study Pali. He apparently went to University and was told that the subject has 100% reservation for SC/ST, because it was language of Buddha. He asked to only sit during lessons so he learns, but not sit for exam. Even this was denied. Finally, out of frustration he entered a distant education online Pali course from Thailand. Thankfully it worked out well because of internet. Don't you think if there was reservation for Muslims he would not have to face injustice?

Is it fair to have Pali only for SCs (Hindus) or nava budhists but not for Muslims? It is unfair is it not? That is point of Muslim Reservation

Two wrongs do not make a right, Shrainagar pai. Instead of asking for reservations to be taken away completely so that anyone can learn Pali, you are asking for more of the bad things. Unless, of course, you want the "by hook or by crook" method. In that case, go on. Keep doing it.

But even there... if by hook or by crook then why not register yourself as a SC or ST

[Napolean]

Originally Posted by Sane Less

Two wrongs do not make a right, Shrainagar pai. Instead of asking for reservations to be taken away completely so that anyone can learn Pali, you are asking for more of the bad things. Unless, of course, you want the "by hook or by crook" method. In that case, go on. Keep doing it.

But even there... if by hook or by crook then why not register yourself as a SC or ST

That is too much - registering as SC/ST.

[rationalthinker]

Originally Posted by Shringarey

There is a story I heard somewhere (Don't remember where) about a Muslim guy who wanted to study Pali. He apparently went to University and was told that the subject has 100% reservation for SC/ST, because it was language of Buddha. He asked to only sit during lessons so he learns, but not sit for exam. Even this was denied. Finally, out of frustration he entered a distant education online Pali course from Thailand. Thankfully it worked out well because of internet. Don't you think if there was reservation for Muslims he would not have to face injustice?

Is it fair to have Pali only for SCs (Hindus) or nava budhists but not for Muslims? It is unfair is it not? That is point of Muslim Reservation

Reservations is an out and out evil practice.
Ambedkar committed a cardinal sin when, while castigating casteism and blaming it for most of Indias problems he gave legal sanction to castes by actually creating a schedule and incorporating some select castes and tribes in it.
Only 3rd class people need caste and religion, especially caste, to achieve something in life ( consequently one can say India is a 3rd.. world country (ie., 3rd.. class country) because majority of Indians are caste vmongers who want reservations and quotas based on caste).

[kkkk]

Originally Posted by jeetiaf

Actually all the general category people who lose out, they lose out to their own category people.


jeetIAF

that is funny, ironic, stupid, intelligent - all at the same time. A comment worthy of coming from Shring

there is a race of 7 people. Awards are given to people who come 1st, 2nd and 6th. You are saying the person coming 3rd actually lost out to those coming 1st and 2nd and the person coming 6th deserves the award more than the one who came 3rd?

Originally Posted by jeetiaf

Selection in Armed forces is not by merit, it is by selection and that is the process that I was trying to advocate all along, In SSB, if anyone here has attended one, nobody asks about "roll on top maneuver" or Drum rolls in the test. One might have topped NDA written exam but might never make out to be clear from SSB. I had a friend in my battalion in NDA with surname Kambli from Dharavi Slum, he consistently had poor percentage but it always increased by 1 % finally reaching 55% in 12th. He finally graduated into Indian Navy and is now a Wulur lake boy. What are his chances of becoming an engineer in IIT or doctor from AIIMS? None.


jeetIAF

Bhai, I do not understand your argument - if there is one there. you say Armed forces selection is not by merit - without even a full stop, in the same statement you mention it is by selection - I know that the selection criteria does not include anything about the caste or economic condition of the candidate.

so how do you say there is no merit involved? Merit is not just academic excellence, its a result of one's capabilities - which caste/religion one is born in is not their capability.

Your friend Kambli - would he have passed SSB only because he is born a Kambli, because of his caste? Surely he had to prove capabilities acceptable for entry to NDA?