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  #31  
Old March 26th, 2013, 11:00 AM
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Re: The insanity of Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

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Originally Posted by milanfanabhi View Post
yup seems like that....gandhi was a class a asshole
Like all human beings, Gandhiji had his flaws and quirks, but that is a very unfair assessment of him.

I don't like his fast-unto-death blackmail, but the idea of non-violent civil resistance is very important.

Change is often associated with the use of violent tactics and bloodshed ... nobody before Gandhi had tried out non-violent civil resistance on the stupendous scale that Gandhi had, and he deserves credit for that!
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  #32  
Old March 26th, 2013, 05:29 PM
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Re: The insanity of Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

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Originally Posted by sanjayt View Post
Like all human beings, Gandhiji had his flaws and quirks, but that is a very unfair assessment of him.

I don't like his fast-unto-death blackmail, but the idea of non-violent civil resistance is very important.

Change is often associated with the use of violent tactics and bloodshed ... nobody before Gandhi had tried out non-violent civil resistance on the stupendous scale that Gandhi had, and he deserves credit for that!
With about 30 generations of emasculated Hindus behind him, and two generations of emasculated British (ever since Queen's rule came about) in front of him, only non-violent civil resistance would have resonated with both sides.
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  #33  
Old March 27th, 2013, 08:15 AM
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Re: The insanity of Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

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Originally Posted by dhurandhar View Post
With about 30 generations of emasculated Hindus behind him, and two generations of emasculated British (ever since Queen's rule came about) in front of him, only non-violent civil resistance would have resonated with both sides.
I'm not too sure of the "Hindus are emasculated" proposition. There's plenty of violence in India: where does all this come from? Not from emasculated people, surely? I feel human beings, particularly males, are innately violent. This is true across race and culture. So I don't think there's any danger of any group getting emasculated.

Now if we're talking of staking claim to a particular piece of land, and then defending it, what is needed is some form of social organization that will permit that society to collaborate towards collective goals (like defence). Plus you need weapons, and technical capabilities, and all that stuff. India is riven by caste, religious, and linguistic tensions. Naturally, this reduces the level of cooperation, and it becomes more difficult to achieve common goals.

Now consider a different scenario.

In North America, South America, and Australia, white people went and totally subjugated native tribes, in some cases wiping them off the face of the earth. Do you think these native tribes were emasculated? I don't think so. Maybe naive, in some cases. In other cases, some tribesmen were pretty fierce. But there was a huge power differential here. The Europeans were far more technologically advanced. The native tribes were no match to European power. Native tribal societies did not have the organizational abilities of the Europeans. Etc., etc.
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  #34  
Old March 27th, 2013, 08:52 AM
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Re: The insanity of Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

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Originally Posted by sanjayt View Post
Churchill hated Indians. He called Hindus a foul race. He hated Gandhi even more, derisively calling him "a half-naked fakir." One thing I admire about Gandhiji is that he happily went around here, there and everywhere (including the goras' lands) shirtless. That must have taken some balls. Especially considering he was a suited-booted gentleman once upon a time.
And have we proved churchill wrong even now?
The idea of Gandhism is much stronger than Gandhi himself. Today even APJ talks about Gandhian philosophy of self sufficiency called PURA
Bhagat, Netaji and Gandhi lived in very trying time in the history of modern world. Half of Europe was facist, Half was Communist and a little democratic somewhere and mostly colonial. While Bhagat was inspired by russian revolution and Gandhi was inspired by British system of parliament,judiciary and administration. Unlike other great leaders who talked about revolution, Mahatama's call for removal of untouchability (still prevalent in Rural India), set of democratic governance in Congress cadres, self sufficiency, are revolutionary in itself. No doubt sacrifices made by Bhagat and Netaji are unmatchable, but what sort of world after 3 generation would be only apparently clear to Gandhi. He died by the hand of communal so did Indira.


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Originally Posted by sanjayt View Post
Like all human beings, Gandhiji had his flaws and quirks, but that is a very unfair assessment of him.

I don't like his fast-unto-death blackmail, but the idea of non-violent civil resistance is very important.

Change is often associated with the use of violent tactics and bloodshed ... nobody before Gandhi had tried out non-violent civil resistance on the stupendous scale that Gandhi had, and he deserves credit for that!
his idea of removal of untouchability, self sufficiency, secularism and even gender equality in congress cadre are very fundamental and set the right foundation of a country to come. Gandhi was born some 30 years after revolt of 1857. In the book, 1857 :Voices from Delhi where all english translation of Urdu letters and newspaper is available, book should be read only after The last mughal of William Dalrymple for better understanding.
Maulana Mehmood Baqar, of Delhi Urdu Akbhar, wrote, that Christians have defiled Hinduism by banning sacred rite of Sati and started Widow remarriage . Gandhi's idea of gender equality is itself revolutionary.
French gave women, right to vote in 1949, we gave in 1950 . Rahul still goes into houses of Dalit because still in rural India, Dalits have hardly moved ahead of where Gandhi left them

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  #35  
Old March 27th, 2013, 07:27 PM
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Re: The insanity of Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

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Originally Posted by sanjayt View Post
I'm not too sure of the "Hindus are emasculated" proposition. There's plenty of violence in India: where does all this come from?

It comes about by the pent up vengeance due to generations of emasculation. If British had not arrived, the average Indian would still be afraid of Muslim overlords with only an occasional unsuccessful revolt. Sikh, Marathas & Rajputs tried but could not stick to power for long.

Not from emasculated people, surely? I feel human beings, particularly males, are innately violent. This is true across race and culture. So I don't think there's any danger of any group getting emasculated.

Now if we're talking of staking claim to a particular piece of land, and then defending it, what is needed is some form of social organization that will permit that society to collaborate towards collective goals (like defence). Plus you need weapons, and technical capabilities, and all that stuff. India is riven by caste, religious, and linguistic tensions. Naturally, this reduces the level of cooperation, and it becomes more difficult to achieve common goals.

By that argument, it would have been easier for British to colonize Arabs who speak one language from Mauritania to Iraq. But obviously, British couldn't do it for the reasons that Arabs had only been collectively emasculated by mere four-five generations ago by the fall of Ottoman Turks and rise of British empire.

Now consider a different scenario.

In North America, South America, and Australia, white people went and totally subjugated native tribes, in some cases wiping them off the face of the earth. Do you think these native tribes were emasculated? I don't think so. Maybe naive, in some cases. In other cases, some tribesmen were pretty fierce. But there was a huge power differential here. The Europeans were far more technologically advanced. The native tribes were no match to European power. Native tribal societies did not have the organizational abilities of the Europeans. Etc., etc.

The tribes were eliminated because they were divided and did not have the communication and diplomatic survival skills due to isolated existence. On the other hand, India and China had centuries of experience dealing with foreign cultures, invasion, assimilation etc. This helped them survive the Greek, Islamic and British onslaught.
If Gandhi had been dealing with Stalin or Hitler, they would have let him starve to death for their own amusement. The rest of the protesters would have been gassed (Hitler) or put to hard labor (Stalin) for progress of communism.
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  #36  
Old March 28th, 2013, 08:05 AM
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Re: The insanity of Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

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Originally Posted by dhurandhar View Post
If Gandhi had been dealing with Stalin or Hitler, they would have let him starve to death for their own amusement. The rest of the protesters would have been gassed (Hitler) or put to hard labor (Stalin) for progress of communism.
Gandhi's tactics might not have worked with the French either.

Hitler considered Slavs as subhuman. During WWII, Germans had this attitude that giving food rations to POWs from countries like Russia and Ukraine was a waste of good calories. Western POWs got better treatment from Germans. In Hitler's pecking order, Gandhi, being a brown man, would have ranked lower than Slavs.
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  #37  
Old March 28th, 2013, 11:18 AM
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Re: The insanity of Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

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Originally Posted by jeetiaf View Post
In the book, 1857 :Voices from Delhi where all english translation of Urdu letters and newspaper is available, book should be read only after The last mughal of William Dalrymple for better understanding.
Never read Dalrymple. But I had read reviews of three of his books: The Last Mughal, White Mughals, City Of Djinns. The last is a travelogue of our rajdhani, Dilli. Some people, when they write travelogues, make the places they talk about so alluring.
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  #38  
Old March 29th, 2013, 10:39 AM
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Re: The insanity of Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

Imperial Britain was as bad as germany was, never in their history British were fair to anybody. Nazi Germany never banned anything except anti-german theology. And french in past had invaded Ruhr because Germany wasn't able to pay indemnity as promised through treaty of Versailles, the polish thought their misadventure in West prussia under their rule won't trigger German Backlash. Compared to the atrocities committed by both franks and poles, German reaction was too mild. Imagine instead of German, had it been Brits

Heinreich Himmler used to keep copy of Bhagwat Geeta with him, Gandhi would have confused him with is religous theology alone . Churchill thought of poisoning Gandhi and then declaring seven days mourning but he was advised to not to do so.

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Never read Dalrymple. But I had read reviews of three of his books: The Last Mughal, White Mughals, City Of Djinns. The last is a travelogue of our rajdhani, Dilli. Some people, when they write travelogues, make the places they talk about so alluring.
His last mughal is masterpiece, he has written it in Dastaangi form of Urdu style of writing history. Writing travelogue is very different than other form of non fictional writing. Dominique Lapiere has written O Jerusalem and freedom at midnight very well but somehow his travelogue 'Once upon a time in Soviet russia' is not as good.
Sir VS Naipaul is the best when it comes to travelogue, he writes the best in this form of non-fiction

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  #39  
Old March 29th, 2013, 05:02 PM
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Re: The insanity of Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

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Originally Posted by jeetiaf View Post
Imperial Britain was as bad as germany was, never in their history British were fair to anybody. Nazi Germany never banned anything except anti-german theology. And french in past had invaded Ruhr because Germany wasn't able to pay indemnity as promised through treaty of Versailles, the polish thought their misadventure in West prussia under their rule won't trigger German Backlash. Compared to the atrocities committed by both franks and poles, German reaction was too mild. Imagine instead of German, had it been Brits

jeetIAF
That is interesting - here on EC ,it is a prevailing opinion that Brits were much more gentlemanly compared to Germans.Reason for this is the holocaust committed by Hitler.Did Brits do anything of that sort?
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  #40  
Old March 29th, 2013, 11:30 PM
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Re: The insanity of Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

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That is interesting - here on EC ,it is a prevailing opinion that Brits were much more gentlemanly compared to Germans.Reason for this is the holocaust committed by Hitler.Did Brits do anything of that sort?
If they did, it certainly wasn't advertised.
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  #41  
Old March 30th, 2013, 12:35 AM
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Re: The insanity of Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

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That is interesting - here on EC ,it is a prevailing opinion that Brits were much more gentlemanly compared to Germans.Reason for this is the holocaust committed by Hitler.Did Brits do anything of that sort?
To begin with, the theory of concentration camp was not newly developed by Nazi Germany but was extension or further evolution from concentration camp used by British in Boer wars in South Africa in the beginning of 20th century by the british. After the end of second world war, British shipped hundreds of Croatians to Soviet Russia where they were killed through forced marches and starvation as Soviet Union never signed Geneva Convention.

German theory of Racial segregation was very similar to British treatment of Indians in our own country. Dogs and Indians are not allowed . Instead of Gas Chambers, gentlemanly British chose starvation as measure. It was not Nazi britain but Democratic British which forced us to grow Indigo and never allowed to make our own salt till 30s.

Gandhi was very genuine problem, his use of non-violence never gave british chance to make allegation of atrocity on British like 1857 did. He used learning of British law on Britannia government itself. Bhagat Singh and accomplice were terrorist, they didn't had any idea how to turn Gandhi a villain among their own crowd and the international ones.

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  #42  
Old March 30th, 2013, 04:41 AM
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Re: The insanity of Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

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If they did, it certainly wasn't advertised.
Where r u RRBhai,hope life is being fair with you .
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  #43  
Old March 30th, 2013, 06:40 AM
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Re: The insanity of Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

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Where r u RRBhai,hope life is being fair with you .
Chal raha hai; shanti hai. Nothing new to report so far.
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  #44  
Old April 24th, 2017, 03:08 PM
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Re: The insanity of Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

Yeh kameena bhi kahaan kuchh kam thaa ?? Waqt aane par Mahatma ban beitha,.....

Lo Padho,..... aaj-kal bade jor-shor se foorward ho raha hai !!

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इस आदमी को पहचाने तो जाने........

15 साल की उम्र में वेश्या की चोखट से हिम्मत न जुटा पाने के कारण वापस लौट आये .
16 साल की उम्र में पत्नी से सम्भोग की इच्छा से मुक्त नहीं हो पाए जब उनके पिता मृत्यु शैया पर थे .
21 साल की उम्र में फिर उनका मन पराई स्त्री को देखकर विकारग्रस्त होता है .
28 साल की उम्र में हब्सी स्त्री के पास जाते है लेकिन शर्मसार होकर वापिस आ जाते है .
31 साल की उम्र में १ बच्चे के पिता बन जाते है .
40 साल की उम्र में अपने दोस्त हेनरी पोलक की पत्नी के साथ आत्मीयता महसूस करते है ,
41 साल की उम्र में मोड नाम की लड़की से प्रभवित होते है .
48 की उम्र में 22 साल की एस्थर फेरिंग के मोहजाल में फंस जाते है .
51 की उम्र में 48 साल की सरला देवी चोधरानी के प्रेम में पड़तेहै .
56 की उम्र में 33 साल की मेडलिन स्लेड के प्रेम में फंसते है .
60 की उम्र में 18 साल की महाराष्ट्रियन प्रेमा के माया जाल में फंस जाते है .
64 की उम्र में 24 साल की अमेरिका की नीला नागिनी के संपर्क में आते है .
65 की उम्र में 37 साल की जर्मन महिला मार्गरेट स्पीगल को कपडे पहनना सिखाते है .
69 की उम्र में 18 साल की डॉक्टर शुशीला नैयरसे नग्न होकर मालिश करते है.
72 की उम्र में बाल विधवा लीलावती आसर,पटियाला के बड़े जमींदार की बेटी अम्तुस्स्लाम ,कपूरथला खानदान की राजकुमारी अमृत कौर तथा मशहूर समाजवादी नेता जयप्रकाश नारायण की पत्नी प्रभावती जैसी महिलाओ के साथ सोते है .
76 की उम्र में 16 साल की आभा .वीणा और कंचन नाम की युवतिओं को नग्न होने को कहते है . जिस पर ये लडकिया कहती है की उन्हें ब्रह्मचर्य के बजाय सम्भोग की जरूरत है .
77 की उम्र मे मनु के साथ नोआखाली की सर्द रातें शरीर को गर्म रखने के लिए नग्न सोकर गुजारते है . और
79 के अंतिम क्षणोंतक आभा और मनु के साथ एक साथ बिस्तर पर सोते है………………….
आपको इनके बारे मे क्या कहना है??

वैष्णव जन तो तेने कहिये,
जे पीड पराई जाणे रे।।

पहचानिए और बताईये कि ये मुस्लिम परस्त आदमी कौन था
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  #45  
Old April 26th, 2017, 09:53 AM
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Re: The insanity of Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

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Originally Posted by jeetiaf View Post
To begin with, the theory of concentration camp was not newly developed by Nazi Germany but was extension or further evolution from concentration camp used by British in Boer wars in South Africa in the beginning of 20th century by the british. After the end of second world war, British shipped hundreds of Croatians to Soviet Russia where they were killed through forced marches and starvation as Soviet Union never signed Geneva Convention.

German theory of Racial segregation was very similar to British treatment of Indians in our own country. Dogs and Indians are not allowed . Instead of Gas Chambers, gentlemanly British chose starvation as measure. It was not Nazi britain but Democratic British which forced us to grow Indigo and never allowed to make our own salt till 30s.
Bhai deliberately capturing people and sending them in an organised way to death chambers is very different to showing indifference to native population and letting them die on starvation. The former is about ideology of superiority of a race or the inferiority of the other, the latter is economics. I dont side with what the brits did to Indians but think there is a difference from what Hitler did.



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Originally Posted by jeetiaf View Post
Gandhi was very genuine problem, his use of non-violence never gave british chance to make allegation of atrocity on British like 1857 did. He used learning of British law on Britannia government itself. Bhagat Singh and accomplice were terrorist, they didn't had any idea how to turn Gandhi a villain among their own crowd and the international ones.

jeetIAF
In the end, it was economics which made brits to give up India. They couldnt afford to rule over India as they had run the country dry! Would have happened even if Gandhi had not been around.
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