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  #16  
Old March 6th, 2017, 09:08 AM
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Re: Bollywood Surrogacy trend

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Originally Posted by Napolean View Post
So what other choice did she have if she did not want to marry? Be pregnant and bear a child?
Why not? It is neither illegal nor unnatural to have children without marriage.
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  #17  
Old March 6th, 2017, 09:11 AM
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Re: Bollywood Surrogacy trend

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Originally Posted by raniraja View Post
Maybe his parents wanted a waaris
That is typical Indian mindset with which I don't have any issue but these guys will have problem with such other mindsets. They will exclude some mindsets as regressive if it is theirs but will judge others on ones that are not their problem.
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  #18  
Old March 6th, 2017, 09:13 AM
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Re: Bollywood Surrogacy trend

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Originally Posted by Aashika View Post
adopt is what he is saying.
But i dont agree with it.

I think progressiveness is not complete for anyone. Just because one has that so called progressiveness, that doesnt mean he/she should be of the same thought consistently, especially when it comes to life changing decisions like kids.

Surrogacy is one of the most beautiful things that has happened in the recent past for people who want their own DNA and cannot.
Same sex couples, single parents and people who cannot themselves have a kid naturally can go this route.
No problems with any choices. But have issues with preaching by these half baked liberals.
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  #19  
Old March 6th, 2017, 09:18 AM
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Re: Bollywood Surrogacy trend

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Originally Posted by Aashika View Post
I think its unfair to expect people (celebrities mainly) to act progressively when it comes to children. Everyone wants a child and he is no exception.

Are you saying that female feticide and surrogacy more or less same?
Not by any means that I am justifying any evil.

I am questioning the undeserved right to judge or criticise or act all holy. And especially the celebrities deserve more scrutiny because they try to be opinion makers by the virtue of their position.

Wouldn't adoption be a better choice?
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  #20  
Old March 6th, 2017, 09:21 AM
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Re: Bollywood Surrogacy trend

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Originally Posted by raniraja View Post
Actually you bring up a sensitive topic. Is surrogacy an excuse for tailor-made progeny ?
In Indian context we have to take into account who rents a womb and who hires them. I am pretty sure most who rent their wombs are lower income people and most who hire are rich or upper middle class. So it's paisa bolta hai.
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  #21  
Old March 6th, 2017, 09:31 AM
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Re: Bollywood Surrogacy trend

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Originally Posted by raniraja View Post
Actually you bring up a sensitive topic. Is surrogacy an excuse for tailor-made progeny ?
IVF usually involves implanting more than one egg in the hopes that at least one will survive. That's how many IVF pregnancies end up with twins/ triplets.
Now, when they use the technology (spin technology i think), they can figure out the most healthy eggs suitable for implantation. during the process they find out the x or Y chromosomes which in turn tell you the gender of the baby.
I am yet to hear of a single case where people used this IVF as a tool to get the gender of choice. Its a tedious process and there is no guarantee that one would be pregnant. Many a time, you need several rounds of IVFs to get pregnant and the hormones/ the moods/ injections/ physical and emotional stress....its just not worth it, if its your own body/ your wife/ girl friend (Edit: just to clarify its not worth it to persu IVF as a tool for gender of choice).

Last edited by Aashika; March 6th, 2017 at 09:38 AM.
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  #22  
Old March 6th, 2017, 09:36 AM
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Re: Bollywood Surrogacy trend

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Originally Posted by Bhidubhai View Post
Not by any means that I am justifying any evil.

I am questioning the undeserved right to judge or criticise or act all holy. And especially the celebrities deserve more scrutiny because they try to be opinion makers by the virtue of their position.

Wouldn't adoption be a better choice?
I dont know this Karan guy and I havent heard his speeches. i merely saw a few movies that he directed. That is all I know about him. So, when i am saying something, I am not really talking from his POV. I am saying in general for any person of popularity.

If he were judging or criticising, then yes, it was undeserved and uncalled. I fully agree.

Adoption maybe a better choice but may not be a suitable choice. I hope you see the difference.
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  #23  
Old March 6th, 2017, 04:45 PM
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Re: Bollywood Surrogacy trend

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Originally Posted by Aashika View Post
I dont know this Karan guy and I havent heard his speeches. i merely saw a few movies that he directed. That is all I know about him. So, when i am saying something, I am not really talking from his POV. I am saying in general for any person of popularity.

If he were judging or criticising, then yes, it was undeserved and uncalled. I fully agree.

Adoption maybe a better choice but may not be a suitable choice. I hope you see the difference.
I understand and acknowledge the differences. Like I said I have no problem with anyone with their choices of how they want to lead their life. I am not against surrogacy, gays, celebrities or what have you. My grouse is with those who sit in judgement of others and go all progressive on them when they themselves go regressive when an option is available.

I think Karan Johar is a far more realistic liberal and less hypocritical than, say, SRK. I like Johar, not his movies though.
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  #24  
Old March 7th, 2017, 04:02 AM
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Re: Bollywood Surrogacy trend

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Originally Posted by Bhidubhai View Post
I like Johar, not his movies though.
Karan is good till he opens his mouth, after that it is all down hall. Sounds so fake. He has no laughing sense, just laughs anywhere.
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  #25  
Old March 9th, 2017, 10:04 AM
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Re: Bollywood Surrogacy trend

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aashika View Post
adopt is what he is saying.
But i dont agree with it.

I think progressiveness is not complete for anyone. Just because one has that so called progressiveness, that doesnt mean he/she should be of the same thought consistently, especially when it comes to life changing decisions like kids.

Surrogacy is one of the most beautiful things that has happened in the recent past for people who want their own DNA and cannot.
Same sex couples, single parents and people who cannot themselves have a kid naturally can go this route.
surrogacy is cruel - cruel on the baby - cruel on the mom who gives birth to the baby. in a poor 3rd world country like India it's exploitation.

so you find a lady from a poor family who allows you to exploit her body and mind for some money.. i am told for as cheap as 50k. women rent out their wombs and put themselves in mortal danger - sometimes as many as multiple c sections to support this practice.

did you know that the surrogate mom that gives birth to this kid after carrying it in her womb for months doesn't even get to hold it once.. the newborn is separated almost immediately at birth and given to the customer.. who is barred from having any contact with the surrogate

what could be more cruel than that..

i would rather adopt an unfortunate kid than follow thru with this type of exploitation.
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  #26  
Old March 9th, 2017, 11:41 AM
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Re: Bollywood Surrogacy trend

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Originally Posted by razzrhino View Post
surrogacy is cruel - cruel on the baby - cruel on the mom who gives birth to the baby. in a poor 3rd world country like India it's exploitation.

so you find a lady from a poor family who allows you to exploit her body and mind for some money.. i am told for as cheap as 50k. women rent out their wombs and put themselves in mortal danger - sometimes as many as multiple c sections to support this practice.

did you know that the surrogate mom that gives birth to this kid after carrying it in her womb for months doesn't even get to hold it once.. the newborn is separated almost immediately at birth and given to the customer.. who is barred from having any contact with the surrogate

what could be more cruel than that..

i would rather adopt an unfortunate kid than follow thru with this type of exploitation.
I fully support surrogacy. From what I know it is a fully regulated legal process, more so like adoption. Of course there are a few cases that falls through the gaps; same like adoption. How exactly is adopting an unfortunate kid different from adopting a baby at birth that has been agreed upon prior?

I say surrogacy is far more safer for the mother and child as I am assuming that the neonatal and prenatal care is taken care of by the people who 'rent her womb'; unlike in the scenario of a mom who cannot afford medical attention during pregnancy and who inturn has to put a child up for adoption after birth.

How is it cruel on the baby? why is the mom having multiple C-sections? Did you mean multiple IVF's?

How is paying 50k after birth in the process of adoption different from agreeing upon a price before implantation?

Is it hard on the mother? Of course it is. No arguing there. I am just making a point that separating a mother and child is painful on the mom regardless of adoption or surrogacy.
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  #27  
Old March 9th, 2017, 11:54 AM
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Re: Bollywood Surrogacy trend

I do not support this rent-a-womb business of surrogacy. I quite agree with razzrhino.
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  #28  
Old March 9th, 2017, 01:19 PM
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Re: Bollywood Surrogacy trend

Quote:
Originally Posted by razzrhino View Post
surrogacy is cruel - cruel on the baby - cruel on the mom who gives birth to the baby. in a poor 3rd world country like India it's exploitation.

so you find a lady from a poor family who allows you to exploit her body and mind for some money.. i am told for as cheap as 50k. women rent out their wombs and put themselves in mortal danger - sometimes as many as multiple c sections to support this practice.

did you know that the surrogate mom that gives birth to this kid after carrying it in her womb for months doesn't even get to hold it once.. the newborn is separated almost immediately at birth and given to the customer.. who is barred from having any contact with the surrogate

what could be more cruel than that..

i would rather adopt an unfortunate kid than follow thru with this type of exploitation.
1) In India it is easy to force hapless woman into this. There is a contract to show the agreement of the person renting the womb. So there is no force. Show me one case where a rich lady rented her womb just to be helpful and one poor lady who was able to hire one.
2) It is cruel to separate a child from a mother. It is against nature to deny a mother access to the child she helped nurture in her womb. If that's the case then she shouldn't sign up.
3) Gays don't deserve to have a biological kid as they have knowingly adopted a lifestyle that doesn't produce children. But they too are humans who have parental instincts etc. So in one case there is an agreement to justify hurting the sentiments of a mother while in this case sentiments come into play to justify this business. Of course there is no agreement by the gays with nature or society isn't that double standards?
4) science is trying to help people who are not Ina position to have kids [b]on their own.[/B] But why insist of their own? no reply.
5) End of the day we are legitimising business of relations which is not what the nature intended. But gays and womb hirers are also a part of the nature. I had no answer. If I had said being gay is against natures way of producing children, I would have been shown scientific articles.
6) What is the guarantee that parents who can't bear the pain of having the child in their womb will turn out to be good parents? Pain of the 9 months is only a fraction of the pain of the whole process of raising a child. That is not for us to judge. If someone is willing to go to such lengths of having a child, I am sure they love them enough to be good parents.
7) what about cases where the mom doesn't want pregnancy because she is too conscious of her shape? That's their personal choice.

That's how a discussion went. Coloured text are the arguments in support of such arrangements.
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Last edited by Bhidubhai; March 9th, 2017 at 01:30 PM.
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  #29  
Old March 9th, 2017, 01:25 PM
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Re: Bollywood Surrogacy trend

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Originally Posted by sarv_shaktimaan View Post
I do not support this rent-a-womb business of surrogacy. I quite agree with razzrhino.
I support in very limited cases where a couple who would have otherwise been able to have kids but for some medical conditions. Certainly don't support it for gays or lazy parents. But it has become huge business. Check out the big hospital in Gujarat that is doing this. I had seen a documentary on it a few months back. Can't remember the channel. That hospital has its own set of surrogates contracted to help foreigners. Of course, they all show how noble it is and such stuff.
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  #30  
Old March 9th, 2017, 01:33 PM
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Re: Bollywood Surrogacy trend

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Originally Posted by Aashika View Post
I fully support surrogacy. From what I know it is a fully regulated legal process, more so like adoption. Of course there are a few cases that falls through the gaps; same like adoption. How exactly is adopting an unfortunate kid different from adopting a baby at birth that has been agreed upon prior?

I say surrogacy is far more safer for the mother and child as I am assuming that the neonatal and prenatal care is taken care of by the people who 'rent her womb'; unlike in the scenario of a mom who cannot afford medical attention during pregnancy and who inturn has to put a child up for adoption after birth.

How is it cruel on the baby? why is the mom having multiple C-sections? Did you mean multiple IVF's?

How is paying 50k after birth in the process of adoption different from agreeing upon a price before implantation?

Is it hard on the mother? Of course it is. No arguing there. I am just making a point that separating a mother and child is painful on the mom regardless of adoption or surrogacy.
How about hiring from orphanage where the kids are already separated?

Of course like I have said in other posts, I support it in cases where the mom has medical conditions. But I don't support the business angle of it and the arguments of human service to shroud that angle.
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