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  #1  
Old July 6th, 2010, 10:09 PM
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Thumbs down Army out in Srinagar as turmoil worsens

Back to square one? Army had to be called back in Srinagar

Hmmm... here we go again. After a long spell of calm, its back to the same old terrorism. Why can't we go and crush the training camps across the border?

Quote:

SRINAGAR: After months of calm that had raised hopes of normalcy, Kashmir appears to be getting swept into a spiral of violence again, forcing the authorities to call out the Army across the entire Srinagar city.

“The Army will now take over the entire patrolling responsibility in the city from the CRPF and police,” J&K director-general of police Kuldeep Khoda told TOI. The decision was taken after three more protesters, including a 25-year-old woman, were killed in CRPF firing on Tuesday, bringing the death toll in such incidents to 14 since June 11.

Authorities reimposed curfew in most parts of the Valley, which has been simmering since tempers flared after the killing of a 17-year-old in police action last month.

The latest protests broke out after residents of Srinagar’s Batmaloo area alleged that a teenager, Fayaz Ahmad, was killed after CRPF fired at a group of people protesting the drowning of another youth, Muzaffar Ahmad Bhat. The body of the 17-year-old was recovered from a rivulet on Monday night and residents alleged that security forces had thrashed him and thrown him in. CRPF denied firing at the mourners and maintained that Bhat had accidentally fallen into the rivulet.

14 killed in CRPF firing since June 11

Kashmir, after a long period of lull, is on the boil again. The toll since June 11 from CRPF firing on street protesters rose to 14 on Tuesday with three more deaths, including that of a 25-year-old woman.

Police claimed the woman died after a stray bullet hit her in her chest as cops fired in the air to quell protests against the death of two youths — Fayaz Ahmad and Muzaffar Ahmad Bhat — at Danderkha in central Srinagar. Srinagar’s SMHS hospital superintendent Dr Wasim Qureshi said the woman was declared brought dead, with a bullet in her chest.

Hours later, another youth, Abrar Ahmad (18), was killed after CRPF fired at a group of agitators protesting earlier killings at Maisuma, a volatile Srinagar neighbourhood infamous for its stone-pelting incidents. Another youth was critically injured in the incident. Authorities rushed reinforcements to the area to quell further protests.

Residents allege that Bhat’s alleged drowning at Gangbugh Nallah that triggered Tuesday’s violence was due to CRPF troopers chasing away four boys at Tengpora in Srinagar after they stoned housing minister Nasir Aslam Wani’s motorcade in Batmaloo. Three of them managed to swim across, while Bhat drowned. Eyewitnesses said as word spread, hundreds of people poured into the streets to protest the killings. Protests were also reported from Srinagar’s tony localities like Barzulla, Hyderpora and Peerbagh. More than a dozen protesters, including seven photo journalists, were injured in the clashes. Women also joined protesters at Tengpora and Maisuma.

Moderate Hurriyat chairman Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, who spent much of last month under house arrest, staged a sit-in with his supporters in old Srinagar as part of his civil disobedience movement. His aide said the agitation would continue until military and paramilitary soldiers are removed from civilian areas. Later, police used batons, teargas shells and fired in the air to disperse the Mirwaiz’s supporters at Khanyar.

The Mirwaiz is also set to stage a protest at Hawal and Alamgari Bazar on Wednesday. Union home minister P Chidambaram has urged CM Abdullah and his ministers to visit the troubled areas and take stock of the growing anger that is threatening to rekindle the azadi campaign.

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Last edited by echarcha; July 6th, 2010 at 10:12 PM.
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  #2  
Old July 6th, 2010, 10:13 PM
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Post Re: Army out in Srinagar as turmoil worsens

Some more updates ...

Quote:

Indefinite curfew in Srinagar continues, Army deployed

Agencies Posted online: Wed Jul 07 2010, 08:57 hrs

Srinagar : The Army was deployed in Srinagar to assist the state administration in maintaining law and order as indefinite curfew continued in the city and other parts of the Kashmir valley for the second day today after violent protests left four persons dead and over 70 injured.
Army columns were deployed in the entire city which saw widespread violence in Batmaloo and Maisuma locality resulting in the death of three people yesterday.

Curfew was in force in Anantnag, Pampore, Pulwama and Kulgam in South Kashmir and Kupwara and Bandipore in North Kashmir. Restrictions were in force at Sopore and Baramulla where Army also staged a flag march.

The army was called out on the streets of Srinagar late last night to enforce the curfew keeping in view the non-availability of adequate number of police personnel, many of whom have been deployed for Amarnath Yatra and counter-insurgency operations, official sources said.

State Chief Secretary S S Kapoor had sought the Army's assistance in maintaining law and order.

Jammu and Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah had appealed to the people to maintain calm and not to violate curfew restrictions.

Protesters had yesterday clashed with security forces in various places including Khanyar, Nowhatta, Rajouri Kadal, Barzulla, Fateh Kadal, Braripora, Tatoo Ground, Hyderpora, Baghat, Rambagh, Jehangir Chowk, Maisuma, and Habbakadal, leaving many people injured.

The protests had begun on Monday night when a group of men started throwing stones at a security contingent.

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  #3  
Old July 7th, 2010, 07:15 AM
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Re: Army out in Srinagar as turmoil worsens

When two opposing countries have nuclear deterrence conventional war is not an option but confrontation at lower level increases, it is called stability-instability paradox.

Kargil war was just clear manifestation of this theory which was actually developed during cold war era, in which both USA and USSR avoided direct confrontation but had too many surrogate fighting like Vietnam and soviet endeavor in Afghanistan.

In that case USA dealt with utmost caution and crumbled USSRís economy badly; in similar way at most India can afford either to start infiltrating in POK or disturb Pakistan from inside especially in balochistan or else try to crumble Pakistanís economy in harder way so that it canít finance such activities.

As far as war is concerned, BJP missed opportunity in kargil 1999, and we all know UPA is soft government which canít do any such thing.

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Old July 7th, 2010, 07:17 AM
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Re: Army out in Srinagar as turmoil worsens

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Originally Posted by jeetiaf View Post

In that case USA dealt with utmost caution and crumbled USSRís economy badly; in similar way at most India can afford either to start infiltrating in POK or disturb Pakistan from inside especially in balochistan or else try to crumble Pakistanís economy in harder way so that it canít finance such activities.



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forget it ....we haven't got the balls for it.
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Old July 7th, 2010, 07:26 AM
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Re: Army out in Srinagar as turmoil worsens

There is not one solution to J&K problem ... not till world solves Pakistan problem for India. India doesn't have what it takes.
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Old July 7th, 2010, 11:25 AM
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Re: Army out in Srinagar as turmoil worsens

India has never had a strategy to tackle their problems . Like the recent lull in Kashmir had provided an excellent opportunity to reinforce and develop military infrastructure for easier access .. What happened is India withdrew the army from there . and also bowed down to China for construction of roads ..
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Old July 7th, 2010, 10:39 PM
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Re: Army out in Srinagar as turmoil worsens

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Originally Posted by ashdoc View Post
forget it ....we haven't got the balls for it.
Yaara Indians always had balls to do it, the fact is the people above us are impotent to do any such thing, I know you are aware of muktibahini, and know how Bangladesh was formed, muktibahini got weapons from Indian support and finally India came openly in their support which led to formation of Bangladesh.

Pakistan opted same strategy in case of khalistan and now doing same in case of Kashmir
They donít have courage to support openly, like India did in case of Bangladesh.

But yes, it was the time of Indira Gandhi, best commander armed forces ever had.

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Old July 7th, 2010, 10:41 PM
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Re: Army out in Srinagar as turmoil worsens

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Originally Posted by tantric_yogi View Post
There is not one solution to J&K problem ... not till world solves Pakistan problem for India. India doesn't have what it takes.
actually plebiscite is also obsolete in modern day, as verdict will be fractured, I lived in avantipur(Srinagar) for good ten months, local kahmiri muslim wants azadi, means they donít want to be with either India or Pakistan, they think that their fate would be similar to Bengalis as punjabbi muslims dominate every sphere of pakistanís social, economical and political environment.

Apart from that jammu and laddakh would remain with India as former has hindu and sikh population and latter with its Buddhist population do not see any future with communal Pakistan.

If final settlement includes plight of kashmiri pandits then it should include plight of jat muslims and rajput muslims who were expelled after indo-pak war of 1947-48.
Issue is too complex to be solved

And you are correct in your assesment

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Old July 7th, 2010, 10:42 PM
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Re: Army out in Srinagar as turmoil worsens

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Originally Posted by JaiSpeaks View Post
India has never had a strategy to tackle their problems . Like the recent lull in Kashmir had provided an excellent opportunity to reinforce and develop military infrastructure for easier access .. What happened is India withdrew the army from there . and also bowed down to China for construction of roads ..
problem with china was started by India, not Chinese, panchsheel policy clearly states non interference with each others internal matter, it was Indians who permitted Dalai lama and co to be here, visit Dharamshala it appears as if it is Tibet , India has mistaken in case of dalai lama.
Chinese sometimes encroaches and same is done by Indians too, the matter of fact is LAC between India and china is not properly marked anywhere, Chinese recognized sikkim in past and they would be alright if India improves bilateral relations with Chinese, because they are clear conventional war is not an option and despite coldness in relation there are very good business ties between both the countries, business spanning $60 billion, I think.

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Old July 8th, 2010, 01:03 AM
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Re: Army out in Srinagar as turmoil worsens

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Originally Posted by jeetiaf View Post
problem with china was started by India, not Chinese, panchsheel policy clearly states non interference with each others internal matter, it was Indians who permitted Dalai lama and co to be here, visit Dharamshala it appears as if it is Tibet , India has mistaken in case of dalai lama.
Chinese sometimes encroaches and same is done by Indians too, the matter of fact is LAC between India and china is not properly marked anywhere, Chinese recognized sikkim in past and they would be alright if India improves bilateral relations with Chinese, because they are clear conventional war is not an option and despite coldness in relation there are very good business ties between both the countries, business spanning $60 billion, I think.

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I dont get it.. Why the fuck we attach so much importance to Dalai Lama and Tibet? Let China do what they want there? We dont have balls to defend Tibet in case of a Chinese attack on Tibet, so why the fuck get into it?
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Old July 8th, 2010, 01:11 AM
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Re: Army out in Srinagar as turmoil worsens

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Originally Posted by echarcha View Post
I dont get it.. Why the fuck we attach so much importance to Dalai Lama and Tibet? Let China do what they want there? We dont have balls to defend Tibet in case of a Chinese attack on Tibet, so why the fuck get into it?
We got into it in 1959, and now we can't get out of it.

Edit : Panchsheel was signed in 1954.
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Old July 8th, 2010, 06:35 AM
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Re: Army out in Srinagar as turmoil worsens

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Originally Posted by echarcha View Post
I dont get it.. Why the fuck we attach so much importance to Dalai Lama and Tibet? Let China do what they want there? We dont have balls to defend Tibet in case of a Chinese attack on Tibet, so why the fuck get into it?
No we cannot allow China to do what ever they want in Tibet and we are also not supposed to do for ur own interest domestically and internationally.
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Old July 8th, 2010, 10:45 AM
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Re: Army out in Srinagar as turmoil worsens

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Originally Posted by echarcha View Post
I dont get it.. Why the fuck we attach so much importance to Dalai Lama and Tibet? Let China do what they want there? We dont have balls to defend Tibet in case of a Chinese attack on Tibet, so why the fuck get into it?
Bilkul sahi bhai, when I was studying during school days we studied about panchsheel policy, one of the points was non interference in their personal matter. I am all for secularism as it is safe for me, I belong to minority, dalai lama and co is Chinese matter why as a nation chacha Nehru should pry his nose into their matter just to prove to the world that he is a secular person
Itís good to be secular in your own country
But itís not good to mess up with otherís matter

Tibet is in total control of Chinese, they have provincial government there, it also houses muslim minority, interestingly in china Arabic teaching and madarsas are banned by law

Before operation blue star, sikh milltants declared khalistan as an independent territory, did Chinese pry their nose like India did in case of Tibet, no they didnít.

During war of 1971, with all weather friend of china, Pakistan, did Chinese intervene?

I met Chinese officers during my Israel visit, and asked one of them that why they left all of the captured territory like sikkim,arunachal and even assam after they won it in 1962, he said in Chinese culture we believe in teaching a lesson not grabbing territory.
And they recognized sikkim in past.

Aksai chin is disputed territory like Kashmir, Chinese controlled it after annexing Tibet, and they count it as south Tibet, its actually high altitude desert controlled by china.

There is IAF base at daulat beg oldi, some times when SU 30 MKI is operated from there it gives tension to china.

Check the map if you wish to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ch..._border_88.jpg

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Old July 8th, 2010, 10:55 AM
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Re: Army out in Srinagar as turmoil worsens

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeetiaf View Post
Bilkul sahi bhai, when I was studying during school days we studied about panchsheel policy, one of the points was non interference in their personal matter. I am all for secularism as it is safe for me, I belong to minority, dalai lama and co is Chinese matter why as a nation chacha Nehru should pry his nose into their matter just to prove to the world that he is a secular person
It’s good to be secular in your own country
But it’s not good to mess up with other’s matter

Tibet is in total control of Chinese, they have provincial government there, it also houses muslim minority, interestingly in china Arabic teaching and madarsas are banned by law

Before operation blue star, sikh milltants declared khalistan as an independent territory, did Chinese pry their nose like India did in case of Tibet, no they didn’t.

During war of 1971, with all weather friend of china, Pakistan, did Chinese intervene?

I met Chinese officers during my Israel visit, and asked one of them that why they left all of the captured territory like sikkim,arunachal and even assam after they won it in 1962, he said in Chinese culture we believe in teaching a lesson not grabbing territory.
And they recognized sikkim in past.

Aksai chin is disputed territory like Kashmir, Chinese controlled it after annexing Tibet, and they count it as south Tibet, its actually high altitude desert controlled by china.

There is IAF base at daulat beg oldi, some times when SU 30 MKI is operated from there it gives tension to china.

Check the map if you wish to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ch..._border_88.jpg

jeetIAF
Tibet is supposed to be a buffer zone between two of the worlds oldest civilizations. It has served that purpose and helped in peaceful existence of these two civilizations for ages. Today, with China annexing, that buffer is gone. This does not bode well for India. Tibet is not an internal issue like most of you here want to portray. It was an independent nation at time of China's independence from British. Besides, China treatment of the Buddhists is not something any respectable nation should allow. The least we could do and did was to provide sanctuary to these folks. And I am proud that we stood up to this vicious nation.

Folks here are ready to bend over for China! As though China wont sponsor terror activities against us through Pakistan if we have let go regarding Tibet issue. Naivety and foolishness! China will do us harm no matter our stance unless ofcourse our stance is one of total subversiveness!
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Old July 8th, 2010, 12:25 PM
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Re: Army out in Srinagar as turmoil worsens

Indira Gandhi dicked into affairs of Sri Lanka by sponsoring LTTE and Rajiv Gandhi had to pay the price when LTTE bombed his ass to high heavens!

Unless we have the courage and chutzpah to see something through we should not interfere in others' affairs. US, whatever said and done, has the balls and resources to meddle in affairs of others and so they can do it. India neither has the balls nor political conviction to do any such thing to increase her influence in the region. So we should just stick to talking about peace and teachings of Gandhi and Buddha.
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