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  #1  
Old August 4th, 2010, 04:49 PM
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Is India Really a Country?

Interesting perspective.. Sometimes I think we Indians take our national identity for granted and ignore the underlying conflicts..

I think a serious national debate should be held on this topic, so that the nation can move forward...

http://i-zeen.com/articles/Is-India-Really-a-Country
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  #2  
Old August 4th, 2010, 05:10 PM
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Re: Is India Really a Country?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diet Coke View Post
Interesting perspective.. Sometimes I think we Indians take our national identity for granted and ignore the underlying conflicts..
Diet Cokeji, these are the same issues we brought up on EC in the last two weeks.

The "The city of Mumbai is in constant conflict, with right wing Maharashtrian parties like the Shiv Sena, demanding that all non-Marathi speaking people should leave the city." in the article dovetails the thread "Are marathi the people of Maharashtra" http://www.echarcha.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35462. Sadly, the EC board and India thinks that the state belongs to those speaking the mothertongue and doesn't include those born and brought up there.

"For the Indian nation to exist and grow, it must provide itself with an enlightened leadership that can provide the bond to keep the country united, and at the same time respect the fact that India is more of a federation of nationalities, with no real dominant religion, language or culture." is the same thought mentioned in "Why isn't India bold" ( http://www.echarcha.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35628 ),
"For India to be a leader, it would have to be bold and fearless, needs a vision, and heroes who integrate the diversity and are worshipped and followed, and needs administration that supports what India it wants to do."



Quote:
Originally Posted by Diet Coke View Post
I think a serious national debate should be held on this topic, so that the nation can move forward...

http://i-zeen.com/articles/Is-India-Really-a-Country
Nothing happens with national debate. 95.3% of people are like sheep that will follow the leader and they can debate for centuries with no action. What we need is visionary leadership with balls and everything else will then line up nicely.

Finally, the concept of unity in diversity already includes the various language and religion differences. There is nothing new that I can see.
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Old August 4th, 2010, 05:35 PM
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Re: Is India Really a Country?

Good points. However I do not think there is a real unity in diversity. It is more superficial. If there was unity there would not be so much internal conflict...

Also it is the people who have to produce such leaders, rather then wait for them to come. This has been a major Indian weakness. We always want someone else to solve our problems.

I feel there is something negative in the culture which conditions the people to be more of follower rather then decisive individuals who can bring about change.
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Old August 4th, 2010, 05:49 PM
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Re: Is India Really a Country?

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Originally Posted by Diet Coke View Post
Good points. However I do not think there is a real unity in diversity. It is more superficial. If there was unity there would not be so much internal conflict...
Conflicts are natural. US is united is that not? Why then are there conflicts on the issue of abortion, gay rights, and civil rights?

The challenge is to make any violent response unaccptable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diet Coke View Post
Also it is the people who have to produce such leaders, rather then wait for them to come. This has been a major Indian weakness. We always want someone else to solve our problems.

I feel there is something negative in the culture which conditions the people to be more of follower rather then decisive individuals who can bring about change.
People are like that in all countries. At least with democracy they get a chance to change the leadership.

As far as "wanting someone else to solve our problems", that has changed a bit.

I remember the time in 70s where the building construction was stopped because there was no cement available for months. For many things the license raj was brutal.

When the market opened up, all these problems got resolved. No new building societies now wait for government to get a new pipeline or electric line or telephones to their buildings. They do it themselves swiftly and share the cost. Same for schools and everything else in the neighborhood. At one time they expected government to do all that.

So things are getting better at granular level, hopefully something will happen at national level. I hope the new leader will be one of us and not an ex-italian or something.
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Old August 4th, 2010, 05:59 PM
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Re: Is India Really a Country?

I think that we are lacking a leader who has a vision for the country . Most leaders are only interested in their own region and except for a few are really working for the betterment of society .

Conflicts should be welcomed because thats how the country will progress , but a conflict which disrupts the normal functional machinery and the law and order is not the way to go and will be detrimental in the long run .

Is there a dynamic leader who can really put national interests first and then everything else . Wonder if that will happen in current time frame .
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Old August 4th, 2010, 07:58 PM
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Re: Is India Really a Country?

Quote:
Originally Posted by amritvani View Post
Diet Cokeji, these are the same issues we brought up on EC in the last two weeks.

The "The city of Mumbai is in constant conflict, with right wing Maharashtrian parties like the Shiv Sena, demanding that all non-Marathi speaking people should leave the city." in the article dovetails the thread "Are marathi the people of Maharashtra" http://www.echarcha.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35462. Sadly, the EC board and India thinks that the state belongs to those speaking the mothertongue and doesn't include those born and brought up there.

"For the Indian nation to exist and grow, it must provide itself with an enlightened leadership that can provide the bond to keep the country united, and at the same time respect the fact that India is more of a federation of nationalities, with no real dominant religion, language or culture." is the same thought mentioned in "Why isn't India bold" ( http://www.echarcha.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35628 ),
"For India to be a leader, it would have to be bold and fearless, needs a vision, and heroes who integrate the diversity and are worshipped and followed, and needs administration that supports what India it wants to do."





Nothing happens with national debate. 95.3% of people are like sheep that will follow the leader and they can debate for centuries with no action. What we need is visionary leadership with balls and everything else will then line up nicely.

Finally, the concept of unity in diversity already includes the various language and religion differences. There is nothing new that I can see.
Correction! Its MNS and not Shiv Sena who wants UP and Biharis to leave the state.
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  #7  
Old August 5th, 2010, 04:44 AM
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Smile Re: Is India Really a Country?

I personally feel that since there is so much diversity, such a leader who is acceptable to all is very difficult to attain. That is why a dynasty has dominated the Indian political landscape. They were able to take advantage of the post independence climate and create the myth of a legacy in the eyes of the Indian masses.

The only people who claim close to challenging that myth was the BJP. But their ideology was to far right wing and based upon hate. That is why they eventually fizzled out.

We need a long term strategy, to rectify this problem. There is a problem in the constitutional definition of India which has led to so much continued bloodshed. I feel we need to open our eyes to this and not be led my emotions in the hope that a great leader will come and save us. That never really happens. We need to save ourselves by creating a framework where co-existence is possible, rather then just the privelled upper caste middle class that recieves the benefits of independence..

You are right about the MNS. But then the MNS is an offshoot of the Shiv Sena who has had similar agendas in the past. In the 50's they wanted all South Indians out.

I am enjoying this discussion. Please keep the ideas coming. Its all about sharing rahter then convincing others...
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Old August 5th, 2010, 08:36 AM
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Re: Is India Really a Country?

Open your eyes to Congress party and you will see that they manage India very well. They have done a commendable job if you look at how our neighbour fucked up despite being freed a day ahead of us.

Its easy to criticise the governments so far, but very difficult to manage.
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Old August 5th, 2010, 09:14 AM
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Re: Is India Really a Country?

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Originally Posted by Diet Coke View Post
............

I am enjoying this discussion. Please keep the ideas coming. Its all about sharing rahter then convincing others...
Enjoy....

India is really NOT a country....its a set of countries!!!....

its a group of countries which is stuck together by fevicol like thing...wonder what this fevicol cud be? may be culture, may be tolerance, may be just like adjust maadi...thoda adjust karo.......See, whenever somebody tries to bring all of them together, they (somehow) invariably become a very dirty nuisance fellows and so they get kicked out or get killed..........but then since we have been stuck together now in some format, we have to go back to our old behavior, like that "kutte ka dum teda hi hota hai" something and so have now started creating new countries.......oh! wait...wait and watch for latest country to be released "Telangana" .......being formed in the middle of the desert like area.......

Meanwhile others are waiting and watching....some in MH, some in Kar, oh its everywhere....just read the newspapers...etc....etc....etc....

so when each country of India becomes powerful enough with money, we will end up somehow fighting with each other...and by the law of India...Indians will have to repeat the Indian history...

Errrrrrrrr...what did I write???
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Old August 5th, 2010, 09:23 AM
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Re: Is India Really a Country?

India is a piece of land truly rambharosey....
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Old August 5th, 2010, 09:25 AM
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Re: Is India Really a Country?

Nothing of this sort will happen Metafours bhau.

We Indians might have a hundred flaws but the glue which keeps us together - our politics - will never fail. Had our politics been stupid we would have easily ended up under military rule by now like Pakistan or Bangladesh.

Nah, you underestimate our politics. Call them inept, corrupt, thugs, whatever - but we owe it to our style of politics for keeping us united.

I am sure that come what may we will never disintegrate into smaller nations. Our politicians are far too responsible to let that happen because if they do then their days of filling their private coffers will be over.
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Old August 5th, 2010, 10:37 AM
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Re: Is India Really a Country?

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Originally Posted by echarcha View Post
Nothing of this sort will happen Metafours bhau.

We Indians might have a hundred flaws but the glue which keeps us together - our politics - will never fail. Had our politics been stupid we would have easily ended up under military rule by now like Pakistan or Bangladesh.

Nah, you underestimate our politics. Call them inept, corrupt, thugs, whatever - but we owe it to our style of politics for keeping us united.

I am sure that come what may we will never disintegrate into smaller nations. Our politicians are far too responsible to let that happen because if they do then their days of filling their private coffers will be over.
Oh yeah...for u its the ever entertaining Political glue of all the states/countries of India, am just worried when they get serious .... oooohh.....bad thought , they are better off entertaining...

It has happened in the past, few of our great great great grandfathers licked somebody elses and they still filled their coffers, didn't they? selfish guys and all politicians....and that is why we found ourselves at the mercy of others at different times........come on..its just 60 yrs that we've been stuck together & cracks are already visible.....

....its perhaps the neighbors who hate us, that will keep us united...but then we have a job to do...we need to kick out the porkis out of the face of earth... after that perhaps, letz fight, we have no other work to do....

For Indians, past performance always matters... Indians fight with each other....as R.Peters wud say...
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Old August 5th, 2010, 01:07 PM
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Re: Is India Really a Country?

I personally believe politicians play to the masses. This is universal. If tomorrow secessionist tendencies of various regions increase, then the local politicians will play along. This is the way the world works.

Maybe it is time to redefine India as a federation with more regonal powers. That way perhaps downtrodden areas where there is a Maoist insurgency may start coming into the mainstream.
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Old August 5th, 2010, 01:14 PM
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Re: Is India Really a Country?

There is no real revolution except for maybe Kashmir, which is demanding to break of from india . And even in Kashmir its more of an external influence which is creating an environment that Kashmir needs to seperate . Ortherwise most regional conflicts are based only on grievances with ofcourse local establishments taking advantage .

@ Diet Coke . YOu are right , if any state will be willing to seperate , politicians may play along but only if they have the monetary advantage or get more power to rule . Like in Kashmir how Mr Omar Abdullah is asking for more autonomy . He and his entire family are kings there and the insurgency is working to their advantage.
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Old August 5th, 2010, 02:04 PM
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Re: Is India Really a Country?

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There is no real revolution except for maybe Kashmir, which is demanding to break of from india . And even in Kashmir its more of an external influence which is creating an environment that Kashmir needs to seperate . Ortherwise most regional conflicts are based only on grievances with ofcourse local establishments taking advantage .

@ Diet Coke . YOu are right , if any state will be willing to seperate , politicians may play along but only if they have the monetary advantage or get more power to rule . Like in Kashmir how Mr Omar Abdullah is asking for more autonomy . He and his entire family are kings there and the insurgency is working to their advantage.
Did you forget the past demand for Khalistan? and Assam? And the north eastern states do not even consider themselves Indians. When they get out of their colonies they say they are going to India. With the demans for more autonomy Omar at least took away the azad kashmir agenda from nefarious parties.
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