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Old September 1st, 2018, 10:35 AM
Ramesh Suresh Ramesh Suresh is offline
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Question Was Visvesvaraya a British agent a la Gandhi?

Several questions give rise to suspicion that Visvesvaraya was an agent of British Raj a la Gandhi.

1. Except the Musi river dam, how were his Indian projects supposed to benefit Indians?

2. He is credited for many projects abroad like in Aden in Egypt, Sukkur in Pakistan etc. Was there such dearth of talent in Britain that they couldn’t find a British engineer to design those structures? Or are those designs so extraordinary that they are above the level of even Britain’s geniuses?

3. It is rumored that he was on several foreign jaunts – USA, Russia, Japan, and Egypt. Where did he get the money for such expensive travel? What was his salary?

4. How did he get such a free hand in administration and development?

5. While other supposed Indian greats faced persecution, why didn’t this guy face any British racism problem?

6. What was in his mind when he tacitly implied that India’s development was possible even with British colonial rule?

7. Why he married twice and what was his compatibility issue with first wife? How was his nature and why he kept sending money to one wife?

Let me state my take on these points:

1. Musi dam was indeed for the good of Indians. It controlled the notorious Musi floods. But I guess British falsely credited Visvesvaraya for this project because they wanted to glorify their agent a la glorification of Gandhi in South Africa. Readers may ridicule this theory thinking, “Nonsense! Visvesvaraya is famous all over the country and his birthday is celebrated as engineer’s day.” Same argument holds in Gandhi’s context. Gandhi is even more famous and is known all over the world. Even United Nations honored Gandhi. He is ‘father of the nation’ and his birthday is a bank holiday. Just like Gandhi was implored by someone to return to India, Visvesvaraya too was requested to get involved in image-building exercise. The parallels between Visvesvaraya and Gandhi don’t end there. Gandhi indulged in traditional Gujarati dress initially to draw Indian sentiments. I suspect Visvesvaraya too wore that turban to advertise his Indianness. The Western suit, the necktie and the turban – what a combination! Just like Gandhi I suppose Visvesvaraya too was a bad husband.

2. How were Visvesvaraya’s Indian projects supposed to benefit Indians? I don’t know the facts but my surmise is that his role was to show an Indian face to the public to hide the British policy of divide-and-rule and economic exploitation of India i.e. draw wedge between and exacerbate relations between provinces and facilitate the loot of India’s natural resources.

Example 1: The Cauvery river dispute was there even in 1890s. British wanted to dam the river. British engineer Captain Dawes or the puppet of the Raj, Maharaja Wodeyar suggested building a reservoir. But Madras Presidency opposed it and urged the imperial government not to approve it. Remember in the decade 1900s, a strong wave of nationalist movement had swept the country in the wake of Bengal partition. Anti-British feelings were running high. In this backdrop, the British didn’t want to be seen as indulging in divisive politics. Hence they orchestrated a fake death of Dawes. Thus they suggested that the decision of dam had nothing to do with Britons. The façade of Indianness was completed by appointing a celebrity Indian engineer to the project.

Example 2: Till World War, with the exception of Tata Iron and Steel Company, iron ore companies weren’t encouraged in India. When WW1 started, British felt the need of producing more iron and steel. Iron and steel companies started mushrooming in India. One of them happened to be Bhadravati Iron and Steel factory. If I am not wrong, some people suggested waiting for the time when the prices of these metals would become profitable. But on Visvesvaraya’s insistence, the steel production was started right away perhaps because British needs could be served.

3. I hardly need to remind Europeans have tremendous talent in science and technology. Computers, internet, rockets, television, pharmacy, automobiles, phones, electricity, atom bombs, nuclear power plants, refrigerators, airplanes, military equipments – all have been invented by the Whites. Civil engineering should be a piece of cake for them. Why depend on Visvesvaraya then for projects in Aden or Sukkur? Was Visvesvaraya a fable?

4. USA, Russia, Japan, and Egypt. I guess even a corrupt British engineer would have needed government support to carry out so many foreign tours. But our protagonist is known for honesty, sometimes rejected salary, rejected patent royalty and threw money in charity. Media says he paid for his travels from his own pocket. Just how and where did this Indian earn so much money to visit developed countries then?

5. In his endeavors, Visvesvaraya never faced red-tape. Bureaucratic hurdles would magically disappear and powerful administrative positions would land in his lap. He would get access to all resources and expertise very easily. His staple project, the Cauvery dam was opposed by Madras. But he was able to persuade either the Madras government or the imperial government. During the setting up of Bhadravati Iron and Steel factory, he could hire high profile Western organizations like the American firm producing iron from charcoal. Similarly, during the establishment of Sandalwood factory he could send some employee named Shastry for training to London. Visvesvaraya single-handedly established so many institutions like bank, university, occupational institute (akin to today’s ITI or polytechnics) etc. I don’t think such ease was possible without covert British nod for the obvious reasons. The British built railways for their own use, not for betterment of natives. Analogically the banking and educational institutions founded by Visvesvaraya may have been to help British rule over India.

6. There have been other supposed Indian geniuses and I have heard stories of them being persecuted by whites. For instance denial of Nobel Prize to Meghnad Saha and you know what happened to Jagadish Chandra Bose etc. But in the case of Visvesvaraya, the Indian has been only propped up by the British.

7. He spoke a lot about nation building, development and progress. But what exactly was in his mind? In one of his archived online book, he speaks on and on about India’s economy etc. But at the end, he signs off saying all his guidelines would be possible only when the British left the country. This thought didn’t occur to him when he was on numerous foreign jaunts in order to create a vision. Regarding his establishing of factories, banks or educational institutions, his efforts bore fruit only when it suited British interests. When it didn’t involve British interests, there was inertia. For instance, he wanted to establish automobile factory. It didn’t materialize.

8. I am curious about his behavior and nature. I guess he was a harsh manager and rude as a person. Citing an anecdote from the archived book. In a durbar type situation, Visvesvaraya begins, “I am a democrat.” An Englishman goes up to him and exclaims, “Democrat? You are the biggest autocrat going!” Everybody laugh. Someone comments, “He is autocrat in implementation but democrat in policies.” Probably because the democratic policies were to the liking of British. In a newspaper Visvesvaraya’s relative revealed that he broke up with first wife because of lack of compatibility.

Last edited by Ramesh Suresh; September 1st, 2018 at 11:16 AM.
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Old September 1st, 2018, 01:40 PM
HarHarMahaDev HarHarMahaDev is offline
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Re: Was Visvesvaraya a British agent a la Gandhi?

Shit I can’t believe I read all that! What a pointless debate.
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Old September 1st, 2018, 01:44 PM
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Re: Was Visvesvaraya a British agent a la Gandhi?

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Originally Posted by HarHarMahaDev View Post
Shit I can’t believe I read all that! What a pointless debate.
Now you know why Keralites favour UAE.
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Old September 1st, 2018, 06:56 PM
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Re: Was Visvesvaraya a British agent a la Gandhi?

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Originally Posted by HarHarMahaDev View Post
Shit I can’t believe I read all that! What a pointless debate.
I read the first few lines and stopped
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Old September 1st, 2018, 07:42 PM
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Re: Was Visvesvaraya a British agent a la Gandhi?

He must be really a genius and a straight thinking person. Your ranting proves it.

I think this is some parking or ROP lover bitching everything good about India like space programme, leaders
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Old September 1st, 2018, 09:38 PM
Ramesh Suresh Ramesh Suresh is offline
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Question Re: Was Visvesvaraya a British agent a la Gandhi?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarHarMahaDev View Post
Shit I can’t believe I read all that! What a pointless debate.
Is the articulation so bad that the unacquainted reader cannot get the point and the context?
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Old September 2nd, 2018, 08:40 AM
Ramesh Suresh Ramesh Suresh is offline
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Re: Was Visvesvaraya a British agent a la Gandhi?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarHarMahaDev View Post
Shit I can’t believe I read all that! What a pointless debate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Napolean View Post
Now you know why Keralites favour UAE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgars View Post
I read the first few lines and stopped
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhidubhai View Post
He must be really a genius and a straight thinking person. Your ranting proves it.

I think this is some parking or ROP lover bitching everything good about India like space programme, leaders
OK FOLKS!!

I will post a link that has both conviction and also entertainment value. It gives reading pleasure.

But before I provide the source, I would like readers to ponder over this topic. I was hoping for a comment from that fan of Visvesvaraya – sarv_shaktiman.
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Old September 3rd, 2018, 04:42 AM
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Re: Was Visvesvaraya a British agent a la Gandhi?

RS could have this debate about every employee of British before independence.
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Old September 3rd, 2018, 08:41 PM
Ramesh Suresh Ramesh Suresh is offline
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Re: Was Visvesvaraya a British agent a la Gandhi?

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Originally Posted by kkkk View Post
RS could have this debate about every employee of British before independence.
Not everyone but many. Especially those who became famous thanks to British controlled-funded Indian media.

Even in 1900, India's population was too large to be controlled by British. They required many native agents to serve their purpose. Anglo-Saxons are too lazy and cowardly to do everything on their own. Heck even in 2018, they accept immigrants from third world to run their economy and outsource a lot of work to other countries. Even in 2018 British Army recruits Gurkhas from Nepal.
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Old September 4th, 2018, 07:02 AM
HarHarMahaDev HarHarMahaDev is offline
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Re: Was Visvesvaraya a British agent a la Gandhi?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramesh Suresh View Post
Is the articulation so bad that the unacquainted reader cannot get the point and the context?
Yes and No!

Visvesaraya was not a stooge. He was an engineer. Its the same thing.

Wearing turban doesn't mean stooge. It was uss-zamane ka style. Today, if you wear a turban or loin cloth to work in independent India, you will get peeto-fied. If you wear suit boot and tie, you will be admired. So are we all still stooges?

There is a saying in my country - peeling skin of hair. It means that not all hard and time-consuming and meticulous tasks are worth something.
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Old September 4th, 2018, 08:14 AM
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Re: Was Visvesvaraya a British agent a la Gandhi?

He was actually a Japanese Agent and initiated RAW. He set up engineering colleges such that Pak loving commies like RS would take 10 years to finish engineering. I also said elsewhere that the Japs were behind equipment damage and google drive not working to implicate RS.
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Old September 4th, 2018, 08:59 AM
HarHarMahaDev HarHarMahaDev is offline
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Re: Was Visvesvaraya a British agent a la Gandhi?

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Originally Posted by sgars View Post
He was actually a Japanese Agent and initiated RAW. He set up engineering colleges such that Pak loving commies like RS would take 10 years to finish engineering. I also said elsewhere that the Japs were behind equipment damage and google drive not working to implicate RS.
No. He was a bollywood director making crappy Indian movies in Switzerland. That's why it's so developed today.
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Old September 7th, 2018, 11:50 AM
Ramesh Suresh Ramesh Suresh is offline
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Arrow Re: Was Visvesvaraya a British agent a la Gandhi?

An authentic, credible and reliable source: A good book says it all with technical details.

https://books.google.co.in/books?id=...rahmin&f=false

Last edited by Ramesh Suresh; September 7th, 2018 at 12:08 PM.
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