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  #1  
Old February 16th, 2003, 11:18 PM
Czarcasm Czarcasm is offline
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I'm disappointed

I have never seen as much ignorance and hate speech as here on this place that supposedly contains "loud and proud desi opinions". I rarely find a thread worth reading that doesn't contain some for of racism or religion bashing (generally Islam). Whats even more disappointing is the Admin's attitude to all this. In the response to the religion bashing ... the argument made was that it doesn't achieve anything. That is perhaps the most spineless moral argument I have ever heard. The very fact that the Admin was willing to agree (albeit with a disclaimer) with the disgusting insults toward Islam speaks volumes about whats acceptable on these forums. I've been reading eCharcha for over a year now, and the only reason I don't post is because I don't want to reply to people accusing me of not being a true Indian or a true Hindu or whatever... This site needs better moderation. Hate speech, personal or directed at a community, is not acceptable in any kind of a society. Here at eCharcha, you have an opportunity to provide a wonderful ground for communication that a lot of people can benefit from. Please don't waste it...

Note: I'm not looking to flame or offend anyone, I just wanted to give you my opinion. I hope you take it as constructuve criticism and not as a personal insult.

If i may add another suggestion, I recommend looking at the straightdope.com forum rules. they offer excellent guidelines to keep people from senselessly screaming obscenitites.
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  #2  
Old February 16th, 2003, 11:39 PM
CYBERIAN CYBERIAN is offline
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Agree but disagree

I disagree with u that there is IGNORANCE AND HATE here. There is more ARROGANCE and CONCEIT here.

I understand Maadhavs and Aurangazebs because right or wrong they LOVE their religions.

I am more scared of hedonistic and self-centred guileful 'cosmopolitan'/'secular' persons than a religious bigot.

Religious bigots at least will not cross the bounds of their Religion. But hedonistic and self-centred guileful 'cosmopolitan'/'secular' persons will have no qualms about anything to fulfil their PERSONAL ego and SELF_CENTRED pursuits.
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Old February 16th, 2003, 11:51 PM
Madhav Madhav is offline
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Dear Cyberian,

you have taken strong position against hypocracy and decipt of pseudo-seculars. But if you see carefully , one of the tactics of these baastards is to manufacture an artificial parity.
When they find something completely undefendable in actions of people from one faith, they club one expamle from another faith , so that thier criticicsm appear to be balanced.

I do not spew unsubstantiated hate against islm .I just place facts ( which are abundant , undisputed and in public knowladge ) and i make logical concluions WITHOUT any regard to bigotery like " all faiths are equaly peaceful" . i just say it as i see it .

Thats why your clubbing me with aurangzeb is very much like tactics of pesudos. Hope you will look at it carefully and realise.
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Old February 17th, 2003, 12:33 AM
Czarcasm Czarcasm is offline
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Re: Agree but disagree

Quote:
Originally posted by CYBERIAN

I understand Maadhavs and Aurangazebs because right or wrong they LOVE their religions.
Loving your religion doesn't translate to justifiable hatred of other religions

Quote:
I am more scared of hedonistic and self-centred guileful 'cosmopolitan'/'secular' persons than a religious bigot.
You've obviously never been on the wrong side of a religious bigot. Try convincing a muslim from gujrat that he should be more afraid of people who aren't religious extremists.

Quote:
Religious bigots at least will not cross the bounds of their Religion. But hedonistic and self-centred guileful 'cosmopolitan'/'secular' persons will have no qualms about anything to fulfil their PERSONAL ego and SELF_CENTRED pursuits.
What exactly are these 'self-centered pursuits' that you accuse secular people of? Peace? Tolerance? God forbid we ever think those are good things.

And as far as your presumption that religion draws a line that people respect, I think you'll find that every single religion in the world is open to interpretation. Several of the worst atrocities in history were commited with religious justification. It takes very little imagination for anyone to decide that his religion is telling him to kill people of other religions. Islamic terrorists, and the Hindutva yahoos in Gujrat are only a couple of examples. everything is fine as long as you're with the pack.
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Old February 17th, 2003, 12:47 AM
Czarcasm Czarcasm is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Madhav

you have taken strong position against hypocracy and decipt of pseudo-seculars. But if you see carefully , one of the tactics of these baastards is to manufacture an artificial parity.
When they find something completely undefendable in actions of people from one faith, they club one expamle from another faith , so that thier criticicsm appear to be balanced.
When people do something undefendable in the name of religion, it doesn't reflect on the religion. As i just posted, all faiths are open to interpretation. One man's violent interpretation doesn't make the religion violent. There isn't a single religion in the world that doesn't have some sort of a blemish on its name. Islamic extremists are madmen, and should be exterminated, but that doesn't mean Islam should be. No one has ever said that all Hindu's support what we just saw in Gujrat. Why do you assume that all Muslims are Jihad hungry barbarians.

Quote:
I do not spew unsubstantiated hate against islm .I just place facts ( which are abundant , undisputed and in public knowladge ) and i make logical concluions WITHOUT any regard to bigotery like " all faiths are equaly peaceful" . i just say it as i see it .
Thats exactly my point, what you see isn't black and white. No religion is perfect. They all have strong and weak points, and they all have episodes they would like to forget. All faiths are NOT equally peaceful. I agree with that. But what that means is the call to violence is more explicit in some religions than in others. But it's still left to men to choose. And its men that should be held accountable. SOME muslims deserve to be condemned. Its inexcusable to insult the entire Islamic community. Some of my best friends are muslims. They are no more predisposed to violence than I am. I live in a Christian dominated area, and know what it's like when people start making generalizations about you and your faith. Its not a nice feeling (to say the least), and no one should be subjected to it.

Once again, i want to add that this isn't personally directed at anyone. I just want you to think about what I'm saying.
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Old February 17th, 2003, 12:50 AM
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This is drifting into non Editiorial type stuff. Maybe we should move this to a different section and continue there
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  #7  
Old February 17th, 2003, 01:02 AM
CYBERIAN CYBERIAN is offline
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clari

I do not know whether this clarifies the matter. but an attempt:-

I consider Nathuram Godse a 'better' person than (i wuld tell later in my post)

Because godse believed that Gandhi was wrong and cruel to the cause/people he genuinely loved and Godse gave HIS life for this cause.

But there are many who will sell their respect (and anything else) for a US visa, lead a materialistic life of self-enrichment , deride the neglected and left out sections of Indians and finally claim to be seculars and cosmopolitans and progressives. IN FACT THE MOST 'ASTOUNDING' POST I CAME ACROSS ON THIS FORUM WAS BY NONE OTHER THAN OUR ADMIN WHO ADVISED H1B FOLKS NOT TO VISIT INDIA BECAUSE THEY MIGHT LOSE THEIR VISA ON THEIR RETURN TO US.

I would consider this kind of inferiority complex AND duplicity to be more dangerous and harmful to India than religious conflicts.

A bigot muslim will try to berate a Hindu and a bigot Hindu will berate a muslim.

But spineless and hypocritical dishonest Indians (of the variety I explained earlier) will devalue the very word INDIAN.
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  #8  
Old February 17th, 2003, 01:27 AM
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I guess I misunderstood you. You don't seem to be attacking secularism, but rather the motivation of some people in adopting secular views. In that much I agree with you, the motivation is questionable, but there are people who truly believe in secularism - Gandhi was one - and the ideal of secularism is sound.

To make a crude analogy - if a person donates money to a homeless shelter just to feel good about himself, he doesn't appreciate the spirit of what he's doing, but really - the act is still a good one.
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Old February 17th, 2003, 03:19 AM
CYBERIAN CYBERIAN is offline
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analogy

I think i will clarify further.

A narrow minded muslim might say 'I will help muslims because they are mine'.

A narrow minded hindu may say 'i will help hindus because they are mine'.

A falsely secular (suck-ular?) person might say 'who cares whether other person is hindu or muslim. i will try my best to fock the other guy anyway.'

a secularist will say ' i will decide to help depending on the situation as per my conviction and conscience. The other person's religion would not matter to me'.

So what I mean is 'suck-ularism can easily be projected as secularism'.

Beware of suck-ularists!
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Old February 17th, 2003, 03:24 AM
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Netra Netra is offline
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Re: analogy

Quote:
Originally posted by CYBERIAN
I think i will clarify further.

So what I mean is 'suck-ularism can easily be projected as secularism'.
You forget that it could be the other way round too.
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  #11  
Old February 17th, 2003, 03:27 AM
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Re: Re: analogy

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Originally posted by Netra
You forget that it could be the other way round too.
NetraBane, i am not even remotely suggesting that u r a suck-ularist.

Anyway you DID take my bait!
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Old February 17th, 2003, 03:29 AM
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Re: Re: Re: analogy

Quote:
Originally posted by CYBERIAN
NetraBane, i am not even remotely suggesting that u r a suck-ularist.

Anyway you DID take my bait!
HA HA HA. I wasn't talking about myself. Just asking a question, having nothing better to do that use up Company's time and money asking stupid questions.
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Old February 17th, 2003, 03:35 AM
CYBERIAN CYBERIAN is offline
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Re: Re: Re: Re: analogy

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Originally posted by Netra
HA HA HA. I wasn't talking about myself. Just asking a question, having nothing better to do that use up Company's time and money asking stupid questions.
I have NEVER seen you at echarcha on Sundays. And also u were absent for months on end. Just when everyone wondered where u had disappeared you came back with the 'frank' revelation that u were unable to logon from the OFFICE all that while!?


FYI my day is over at the office. I am at home.
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Old February 17th, 2003, 03:40 AM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: analogy

Quote:
Originally posted by CYBERIAN
I have NEVER seen you at echarcha on Sundays. And also u were absent for months on end. Just when everyone wondered where u had disappeared you came back with the 'frank' revelation that u were unable to logon from the OFFICE all that while!?


FYI my day is over at the office. I am at home.
Arey week-end ko logon karoongi to other-half ke jootey khaane padenge.

Yeah, I was absent for a few months because of loads of work to be finished. Then I was moved to my project-leader's office so found it difficult to log on. I am still in his office, but manage to get in a sentence when he goes out of the office, or when he is busy on the phone. That's why my messages are generally short. Actually I shouldn't even bother about him. He is on the internet a lot of time too.

Last edited by Netra; February 17th, 2003 at 04:13 AM.
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Old February 17th, 2003, 03:48 AM
CYBERIAN CYBERIAN is offline
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: analogy

Quote:
Originally posted by Netra
Arey week-end ko logon karrongi to other-half ke jootey karne padenge.

Yeah, I was absent for a few months because of loads of work to be finished. Then I was moved to my project-leader's office so found it difficult to log on. I am still in his office, but manage to get in a sentence when he goes out of the office, or when he is busy on the phone. That's why my messages are generally short. Actually I shouldn't even bother about him. He is on the internet a lot of time too.
to be honest i do not feel guilty even when i surf from office for long hours. because surfing is like to listening to music in the office. if we can listen to music all day through our work we can as well surf.

however one should ensure that work and deliverables do not suffer and deviant use of internet is not practised.
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