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  #1  
Old December 26th, 2001, 09:54 PM
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Thumbs down Who says Shivaji was not a Shudra?????

Shiv Sainiks in Mumbai had protested over a Handbook authored by writer Teesta Setalvad wherein Shivaji has been described as “shudra”. The Handbook forms part of the non-detailed text for additional reading in History subject and has been prepared for students from third standard to sixth standard.
She said she had not altered the facts anywhere and all of them were well documented.


‘Teesta’s remarks on Shivaji not derogatory’
Noted social activist Teesta Setalwad's history handbook for school teachers about 17th century Maratha ruler Shivaji is not derogatory, a state committee of historians has concluded.

However, the five-member committee headed by Dr Arvind Deshpande, chairman of the Maharashtra Textbook Board's History Committee, has also opined that Setalwad's writings could partially be blamed of being ' polemical'.

The Shiv Sena had objected to Setalwad's remarks about Shivaji in a history handbook for Standard VI teachers, saying they were derogatory, and had demanded action against her. Setalwad, who has received accolades for her reporting on the Mumbai communal riots and is now involved in publishing the magazine Communalism Combat, has repeatedly earned the Sena's disapproval.

An expert committee was set up by the Maharashtra State Textbook and Syllabi Research Board in October to look into the Shiv Sena's allegations. Apart from Dr Deshpande, the team included J V Naik (retired professor and head of the history department, Mumbai University), Gajanan Mehendale (historian and author of Shivaji's biography) and M K Kerulkar (retired principal and chairman of the Maharashtra History Teachers' Board, Pune).

The committee sought to determine how accurate the statements about the incidents and individuals Setalwad wrote of were, and if they were demeaning to Shivaji or anyone else. They also looked into the question of whether a teachers' handbook should consist of controversial incidents and loaded statements.

The committee found that neither the state government nor the National Council for Education, Research and Training had Shivaji as a topic in their syllabi for Standard VI. So the committee couldn't ascertain which age group of students Setalwad had in mind while providing teachers the additional information.

The committee also opined that the handbook was loosely written and that the author was not very awake to the accuracy of statements or related information. The committee stated an example of the controversy about Shivaji's caste -- a debate on whether he was Kshatriya or Shudra. "After his coronation, nobody seems to have objected to Shivaji's referring to himself as Kshatriya. He took for himself the title of " Kshatriyakulavatans" (from the Kshatriya clan), as evident from the correspondence he made after the coronation," the committee pointed out.

It further said that controversial statements were inevitable in historical writings. " However, recording both sides of the controversy without having any bias and stating that they are controversial is a moral responsibility of persons involved in the process of educational writing. If it doesn't happen, the writing could become polemical and its quality as educational material is harmed. Setalwad's writings have this fault, but only marginally," the committee stated.

It, however, firmly concluded that there were no derogatory statements about Shivaji or anyone else in her writings. Setalwad refused to comment saying she was yet to receive a full copy of the report.
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Old December 26th, 2001, 11:41 PM
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so ?
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Old December 27th, 2001, 07:10 AM
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Lot of People were just not ready to accept the facts......
Donno WHY?
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Old December 27th, 2001, 07:45 AM
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Where R those guys who were having doubts and were not agrreing with the facts on Shivaji.....
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  #5  
Old December 27th, 2001, 09:26 AM
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IF Shivaji was a shudra, it only strengthens the Hindu religion's fundamentals that Caste is not by birth. One is recognized by his work(Karma)
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Old December 27th, 2001, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by aryaputra
IF Shivaji was a shudra, it only strengthens the Hindu religion's fundamentals that Caste is not by birth. One is recognized by his work(Karma)


I would diagree here... In Hindu religion and per all the Hindus.. the caste is decided by birth and is parcticed like that...

Shivaji or Ambedkar or per say Present President of India could be just exceptions...
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Old December 27th, 2001, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by aryaputra
IF Shivaji was a shudra, it only strengthens the Hindu religion's fundamentals that Caste is not by birth. One is recognized by his work(Karma)
Arya pai,
Explain me in breif the concept of re-birth in Hinduism.
I have few doubts about i. Let hear it from u first then I'll ask'em or May be i dont have to. I have couple guys who work or me like very hard core hindus but I am afraid guys may get offended if I ask them.
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Old December 27th, 2001, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Freedom_Peace


Arya pai,
Explain me in breif the concept of re-birth in Hinduism.
I have few doubts about i. Let hear it from u first then I'll ask'em or May be i dont have to. I have couple guys who work or me like very hard core hindus but I am afraid guys may get offended if I ask them.

JAB PAAP KARKNE KE BAAD GANGA NAHAKAR PAAP DHUL JAATEY HAIN USKE BAAD REBIRTH.....AGAIN PAP KA ACCOUNT ZERO...READY TO START NEW LIFE...
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Old December 27th, 2001, 09:23 PM
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Dear Mr. Recker,

We all know how these committies are being formed and what all they do into their so called Findings. Even you can understand these facts simply by looking at the Surnames of these Committee members. For more details what I mean to say you can have a look at my thread below.

http://www.echarcha.com/forum/showth...?threadid=3588


I don't want to start any Caste Bashing here. But bound to talk if anybody try to insult Chhatrapati Shri Shivaji. So, Please don't repeat such statements again.

Chhatrapati Shri Shivaji Maharaj was a Kshatriya and all 96 Kulin Maratha's are Kshatriya.
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Last edited by Raajan; December 27th, 2001 at 09:27 PM.
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Old December 27th, 2001, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Raajan
Dear Mr. Recker,

Chhatrapati Shri Shivaji Maharaj was a Kshatriya and all 96 Kulin Maratha's are Kshatriya.
so ?
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Old December 27th, 2001, 11:07 PM
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Krantikari, If you have nothing to do with it, go and surf other threads of Ur interest.
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Old December 28th, 2001, 01:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Raajan
Krantikari, If you have nothing to do with it, go and surf other threads of Ur interest.
... Pal... don't get me wrong... I was just asking why does it bother people if Shivaji was a Kshatriya or a Shudra. Does it enhance or deminish his contribution to his kingdom in any way?
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Old December 28th, 2001, 02:37 AM
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It Matters Sir....,
Some People are trying to malign all Maratha's along with Shri Shivaji calling them as a Shudra.., though all are Kshatriya. It's a well planned effort of putting those so called Upper cast people in the upper rank than Maratha's.
It's again a part of the issue like Suffornization. They have an arrogance of not agreeing anybody else superior than themselves. That's the reason they are trying to change the History. Those who cannot create the History beleives in changing / Editing the History Books.
These people's arrogance made Muslims and Dalits feel insecure which causes all troubles.
What will you do if you, along with your family, Society and all people of your religion start feeling insecure only because you are in Minority..? Definately U'll try to find out some or other source of the Arms and Ammunations to get secure yourself. That's what happening here now.
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Old December 28th, 2001, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RECKER




I would diagree here... In Hindu religion and per all the Hindus.. the caste is decided by birth and is parcticed like that...

Shivaji or Ambedkar or per say Present President of India could be just exceptions...
I do not disagree with that. That is one (& most common way) to get "castified"(??), but not the only way.

This is like saying that if I am the son of the president of USA, I can get admission to Standford / Wharton, et al with just a phone call. But that does not mean that a common man cannot get admissions to the same institutions. They have to work harder(much harder, in fact) to get there.

Does this clear any doubts?
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  #15  
Old December 28th, 2001, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Raajan
Dear Mr. Recker,

Chhatrapati Shri Shivaji Maharaj was a Kshatriya and all 96 Kulin Maratha's are Kshatriya.
Probably Shring will enlighten U on this that who R 96 K marathas... He has better knowlege of it.. I missed his one post where he had described it well....
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