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  #1  
Old October 27th, 2010, 01:53 PM
ashdoc ashdoc is offline
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Thumbs down India to get american military equipment without cutting-edge electronics

America is well-known for its sanctions ,and India suffered the brunt of them when it conducted the 1998 nuclear tests......the flight control system of the LCA project was impounded ,and the tejas project suffered.

Even now we are being denied key technologies because we have not signed agreements.

For example the C-130J transport aircaft is going to come without IFF ( identification friend or foe ,which can identify whether oncoming aircraft are ours or enemies' ) ,certain radios , and satellite communication systems .

The P8 poseidon maritime patrol aircraft comes with a downscaled radar.

This raises the question if anything should be bought from US at all ,if other countries are willing to offer technologies with no strings attached.

If a US aircraft wins the MRCA contract ,will it come with full technology ??

What if the US suddenly stops supplying spare parts of a defence item after India has spent billions in buying it ,because some commitee decided to place sanctions on India ,something that the US has done in the past ??

COPY/PASTE FOLLOWS--


India’s marked shift towards American weaponry is, paradoxically, leading towards a flashpoint between New Delhi and Washington. Over the next three months, key American military platforms --- including the AH-64 Apache attack helicopter; the C-17 Globemaster transport aircraft; and the M777 ultralight howitzer (ULH) --- come to India for user trials. But New Delhi’s reluctance to sign two technology safeguard agreements demanded by the US could lead to India paying top dollar for American equipment that is divested of the cutting-edge electronics that makes it special.

With neither side giving ground, negotiations have stalled. Before meeting last week in Washington, the US-India Defence Procurement and Production Group (DPPG) --- which coordinates equipment transfers between the US and India --- quietly removed from its agenda a long-running discussion on the two contentious safeguards: the Communications Interoperability and Security Memorandum of Agreement (CISMOA); and the Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement for Geo-spatial Cooperation (BECA).

Also threatened by this continuing stand-off is the transfer to India of crucial avionics, satellite navigation aids, and secure communications equipment that power two advanced American platforms that India has already bought: the P8I Poseidon multi-mission maritime aircraft (MMA); and the C-130J Super Hercules transport aircraft.

US law mandates that certain sensitive American electronics can only be transferred abroad after the recipient country signs the CISMOA and/or the BECA. But New Delhi treats all defence agreements with the US as political hot potatoes. Last year India reluctantly signed up for an End User Monitoring (EUM) Agreement with the US after extended negotiations that eventually kept American inspectors away from Indian military bases. Simultaneously, New Delhi flatly rejected a US proposal for a Logistics Support Agreement (LSA) that would have formally allowed US forces ready access to Indian logistics. The EUM agreement and the LSA faced vocal domestic opposition, notably from the Left.

Manohar Thyagaraj, a security analyst who studies the US-India strategic relationship, explains, "Foundation agreements such as CISMOA and BECA are required by US law for providing another country with the most advanced electronics on US weapons platforms. These agreements are common for all countries that receive US high technology and are not unique to India.”

The CISMOA signed between the US and Korea in October 2008 aims “to promote tactical systems interoperability” between the two armed forces by allowing the US Department of Defense to provide “Communications Security (COMSEC) Equipment” to protect sensitive data during communications. The Indian MoD is apprehensive about permitting the US to fit COMSEC equipment into the platforms that India buys.

If the stand-off over the CISMOA continues, India’s eight P8I Poseidon aircraft, which cost US $2.1 billion, will be delivered with a down-rated avionics suite, not the high-end electronics that make the P8I a leader in its class.

Talking to Business Standard, Egan Greenstein, Senior Manager for Business Development, Boeing Defence, explained, “The signing of the CISMOA would be essential for a high-tech system like the P8I. It is absolutely packed with sensitive technologies. The US wants to share these technologies with India but will make sure that they are suitably protected by the CISMOA.”

The growing distance between New Delhi and Washington on the CISMOA is causing frustration on both sides. A US official complains, “Both sides are just kicking the can down the road, hoping that someone, sometime will see the light and actually do something real about it.”

American vexation was officially conveyed during the visit of US Defence Secretary, Robert Gates, to Delhi in January when he urged Prime Minister Manmohan Singh; and Defence Minister, AK Antony; to sign the CISMOA and the LSA.

Addressing the press after his meetings in New Delhi, a chagrined Robert Gates pointed out, “These agreements have been laying around for quite a while… this is not some new requirement that has just emerged. [These agreements] are preponderantly in India’s benefit, because they give high-tech systems additional high-tech capabilities… are enablers, if you will, to the very highest quality equipment in the Indian armed forces.”

Since the US Defence Secretary’s visit Washington has written back, using concrete examples --- including the P8I and the C-130J aircraft --- to illustrate to New Delhi what capabilities it will pass up by refusing to sign the CISMOA and BECA.

The next discussion on these safeguard agreements is likely during the inaugural US-India Strategic Dialogue from 1st to 4th June, when India’s Minister of External Affairs, SM Krishna, meets US Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, in Washington.

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2010/...tumble-on.html
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Old October 28th, 2010, 09:59 PM
ashdoc ashdoc is offline
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Re: India to get american military equipment without cutting-edge electronics

Other than IFF ( identification friend or foe ,which can identify whether oncoming aircraft are ours or enemies' ) ,certain radios and and satellite communication systems will also be not available with the C130J hercules transport aircraft.

The aircraft is used for covert operations ,and these radios and satellite communications systems facilitate secure encrypted communications with the soldiers landed for covert operations ,that is , the enemy cannot listen or understand what orders are being passed to our troops through these communications systems.

But these are not available to us.

Of course ,the primary aim of C-130 aircraft is not covert operations ,but transport of troops to battle zones .

The P-8 sea patrol aircraft comes with downscaled radar.( radar is used for detecting enemy warships )

All this is okay as these are not our primary warfare systems ,but merely transport aircraft or sea patrol aircraft.

The US is putting enormous pressure to ensure that its fighters are bought.

But India should be extremely wary of buying US fighter jets .

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Old October 28th, 2010, 11:22 PM
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Re: India to get american military equipment without cutting-edge electronics

See, ashubhai, you are a doctor and don't understand the baniyagiri these americans are capable of. Of course they will give us a slightly inferior, bug-ful version of whatever product we are buying from them.

Why???


Why because it is american business strategy to keep 'em coming back for bug fixes and updates
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Old October 29th, 2010, 02:17 AM
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Re: India to get american military equipment without cutting-edge electronics

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Originally Posted by raniraja View Post
See, ashubhai, you are a doctor and don't understand the baniyagiri these americans are capable of. Of course they will give us a slightly inferior, bug-ful version of whatever product we are buying from them.

Why???


Why because it is american business strategy to keep 'em coming back for bug fixes and updates
if it is so ,then it is case of being penny wise and pound foolish , for they are bound to lose major contracts like the fighter competition.
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Old October 29th, 2010, 02:23 AM
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Re: India to get american military equipment without cutting-edge electronics

I am sure these would be better than buying 100 year old Russian junk yard crap.
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Old October 29th, 2010, 03:23 AM
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Re: India to get american military equipment without cutting-edge electronics

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Originally Posted by echarcha View Post
I am sure these would be better than buying 100 year old Russian junk yard crap.
or what we can manufacture at home currently
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Old October 29th, 2010, 04:02 AM
ashdoc ashdoc is offline
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Re: India to get american military equipment without cutting-edge electronics

Quote:
Originally Posted by echarcha View Post
I am sure these would be better than buying 100 year old Russian junk yard crap.
I think european and israeli weapons are better.

The US has propensity to stop supply of spares and other critical equipment ,because some committee decided to put sanctions on india for something.

We might see a fighter fleet bought for billions of dollars not working , and the billions wasted , due to this !!
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Old October 29th, 2010, 11:27 AM
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Re: India to get american military equipment without cutting-edge electronics

What exactly wont be available on the C-130J HERCULES --



1)AN/ ARC- 222 SINCGARS combat net radio,

2) the KV- 119 Identify Friend- Foe digital transponder,

3)the TACTERM/ANDVT high frequency secure voice terminal,

4)the VINSON KY- 58 secure voice module ,

5 )parts of the Rockwell- Collins AN/ ARC-210(V) SATCOM transceiver.
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