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  #1  
Old October 28th, 2007, 03:44 AM
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Banana republic pakistan thought of nuking India...

Banana republic, Pakistan contemplated using nukes against India during Kargil War




London: Pakistan was preparing to use nuclear missiles against India during the Kargil war, a new book has claimed, citing an eight-year-old conversation between US President Bill Clinton and Pakistan Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif.
The book - Deception: Pakistan, the United States and the Global Nuclear Weapons Conspiracy - written by investigative journalists Adrian Levy and Catherine Scott-Clark says, "When President Clinton met Sharif at Blair House (in July 1999), Clinton asked Sharif if he knew how advanced the threat of nuclear war really was? Did he know, for example that his military was preparing to use nuclear missiles?". Answering Clinton's query, Sharif shook his head implying he was unaware of his military's moves.
Warning Sharif, the President said he had a statement ready for release that would pin all the blame for Kargil on Pakistan if the Prime Minister refused to pull his forces back.
Clinton further questioned Sharif on whether the Pakistani leader could be trusted on anything. The US President reminded Sharif that despite his promise to help bring Osama bin Laden to justice, the ISI had continued to work with bin Laden and the Taliban to foment terrorism and the Americans knew that.
The Americans were unsure as to who was really in control in Islamabad, the book says, as confusion prevailed over whether Sharif was in reality pushed into a war by General Pervez Musharraf, or he attempted to diminish his role in the crisis.


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Old October 28th, 2007, 09:22 AM
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Re: Banana republic pakistan thought of nuking India...

India should have an effective Anti-Missile Shield on it's borders and deep within to shoot down the incoming threats....
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Old October 28th, 2007, 10:27 AM
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Re: Banana republic pakistan thought of nuking India...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rahulpsharma
India should have an effective Anti-Missile Shield on it's borders and deep within to shoot down the incoming threats....
Are you crazy or what? or is it just to difficult to think before you post?
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Old October 28th, 2007, 10:39 AM
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Re: Banana republic pakistan thought of nuking India...

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Originally Posted by dhurandhar
Are you crazy or what? or is it just to difficult to think before you post?
Whats so crazy about it? Shoot a missile down using an anti missile on the border itself before the nuke warhead enters the indian territory....
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Old October 28th, 2007, 11:01 AM
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Re: Banana republic pakistan thought of nuking India...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rahulpsharma
Whats so crazy about it? Shoot a missile down using an anti missile on the border itself before the nuke warhead enters the indian territory....
It is difficult, if not impossible, for India to use a anti-missile system against Pak, for the simple reason that we are neighbours and Pak territory is too small to give sufficient time for India to seek and shoot a airborne missile.

Better way would be to develop good spy satellite system and take preventive bombing using fighter aircrafts.
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Old October 28th, 2007, 11:12 AM
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Re: Banana republic pakistan thought of nuking India...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2gud
It is difficult, if not impossible, for India to use a anti-missile system against Pak, for the simple reason that we are neighbours and Pak territory is too small to give sufficient time for India to seek and shoot a airborne missile.

Better way would be to develop good spy satellite system and take preventive bombing using fighter aircrafts.
If am not wrong, we already have S-300 systems in place which have a fast response time... Its true that the reaction time is tooo less for us but still anti-missile systems are designed to have extremely fast response times.... Plus it's just an additional security tier.... It's a system coupled with Early warning systems that are capable of detecting launches in the launch phase itself....

We can couple this with your suggestion of spy satellites too... But my system will provide additional security in case the missile is launched from some unknown silo or location deep within the mountains... ... Preventive bombings may fail too.... Paki aircrafts can chase and possibly hunt down Indian aircrafts, thanks to F-16 capabilities....
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Old October 28th, 2007, 11:29 AM
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Re: Banana republic pakistan thought of nuking India...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rahulpsharma
If am not wrong, we already have S-300 systems in place which have a fast response time... Its true that the reaction time is tooo less for us but still anti-missile systems are designed to have extremely fast response times.... Plus it's just an additional security tier.... It's a system coupled with Early warning systems that are capable of detecting launches in the launch phase itself....

We can couple this with your suggestion of spy satellites too... But my system will provide additional security in case the missile is launched from some unknown silo or location deep within the mountains... ... Preventive bombings may fail too.... Paki aircrafts can chase and possibly hunt down Indian aircrafts, thanks to F-16 capabilities....
Actually, reconnaissance using spy satellites is an ongoing and relentless effort employing sophisticated computer algorithms and artificial intelligence to identify and pinpoint patterns and movements signifying missile and nuke installations. This coupled with intelligence collaboration with friendly countries like Israel (and possibly US) and ground based intelligence would be an effective way to thwart any such attempt. And preventive action should be taken when the enemy is least expecting us to do that. It should be swift and decisive. We can even use a missile to do that!

I am not certain about the response times of an anti-missile system - one thing to take note is, the thing Pak uses to launch a nuclear warhead is missile too and could be made to have a fast response too! That couple with the proximity could be devastating for cities like Delhi. May be protecting Bombay could be more effective that way, but then they can use Navy for that
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Old October 28th, 2007, 01:12 PM
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Re: Banana republic pakistan thought of nuking India...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2gud
Actually, reconnaissance using spy satellites is an ongoing and relentless effort employing sophisticated computer algorithms and artificial intelligence to identify and pinpoint patterns and movements signifying missile and nuke installations. This coupled with intelligence collaboration with friendly countries like Israel (and possibly US) and ground based intelligence would be an effective way to thwart any such attempt. And preventive action should be taken when the enemy is least expecting us to do that. It should be swift and decisive. We can even use a missile to do that!

I am not certain about the response times of an anti-missile system - one thing to take note is, the thing Pak uses to launch a nuclear warhead is missile too and could be made to have a fast response too! That couple with the proximity could be devastating for cities like Delhi. May be protecting Bombay could be more effective that way, but then they can use Navy for that
Sorry but I have to disagree with you. No amount of tech intel can replace human intel. This is what India lacks. RAW no longer has the kind of human intelligence in Pakistan as it used to decades ago. This is the reason why we are unable to stop terror activities in our country. And the idiots in RAW think they can make up this by heavy tech intel.

As for anti-missile defense, we are making some stragetic moves towards it. Prithvi based anti missile system (PAD) was a move in this direction. I am sure, given a few more years, we will develop some kind of anti-missile system. It might not be infallible but something is better than nothing.
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Old October 28th, 2007, 01:22 PM
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Re: Banana republic pakistan thought of nuking India...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rahulpsharma
Whats so crazy about it? Shoot a missile down using an anti missile on the border itself before the nuke warhead enters the indian territory....
If you are using anti missile in Paki airspace, it is an act of aggression. If you are shooting it down in your airspace, it is stupidity

Why don't you break your analysis down (second-by-second) and you will realize that you are just fantasizing. If you are convinced, I'll prick your bubble of fancy for you if you post it here

What I am saying is start with the time it takes for somebody in India to identify that missile is launched from Paki border (and confirm that it is headed to India)...just because a missile got launched does not mean its headed for India
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Last edited by dhurandhar; October 28th, 2007 at 01:24 PM.
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Old October 28th, 2007, 01:24 PM
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Re: Banana republic pakistan thought of nuking India...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rameshp
Sorry but I have to disagree with you. No amount of tech intel can replace human intel. This is what India lacks. RAW no longer has the kind of human intelligence in Pakistan as it used to decades ago. This is the reason why we are unable to stop terror activities in our country. And the idiots in RAW think they can make up this by heavy tech intel.

As for anti-missile defense, we are making some stragetic moves towards it. Prithvi based anti missile system (PAD) was a move in this direction. I am sure, given a few more years, we will develop some kind of anti-missile system. It might not be infallible but something is better than nothing.
Even US has not been able to come up with a fool proof anti-missile shield, and coupled with the botched up MBT Arjun fiasco.....how many years will DRDO take to come up with some kind of anti-missile system?
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Old October 28th, 2007, 01:29 PM
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Re: Banana republic pakistan thought of nuking India...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rameshp
No amount of tech intel can replace human intel. This is what India lacks. RAW no longer has the kind of human intelligence in Pakistan as it used to decades ago. This is the reason why we are unable to stop terror activities in our country. And the idiots in RAW think they can make up this by heavy tech intel.

As for anti-missile defense, we are making some stragetic moves towards it. Prithvi based anti missile system (PAD) was a move in this direction. I am sure, given a few more years, we will develop some kind of anti-missile system. It might not be infallible but something is better than nothing.
Human intel. is what I meant by ground based. I agree with you it should be a well rounded program using multi approach including what all we discussed.
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Old October 28th, 2007, 05:27 PM
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Re: Banana republic pakistan thought of nuking India...

Let me be clear. Even if you have the best anti-missile or whatever system, its of no use.

Why? Its simple - If Pak launches an attack on us, our government - be it Congress or BJP led - will first think of how to resolve this issue with peace How to label this as simply 'cross border adventurism'.

Then many hours after the missile has struck us, we will turn to the United Nations and lodge a strongly worded protest. By then Russia and US will have stepped in to calm down the issue. Pakistan will not pay heed and we will immediately have Zee TV shows showing how good Pakistani singers are. Mahesh Bhatt will challenge Hindus to come forth and embrace Pakistani Muslims.


So keep all your missile systems with you - We are Indians. We are Gandhi's nation. We wont fight with Pakistan. Oh yes we defended Kargil because our own armed forces had enough self respect and they attacked first and then informed our doddering old Prime Minister Vajpayee ji. He was then forced to save grace call up the Air Force and ask them to bomb and support the military.

Anyway, that was a rare event. Really. Infact Pak need not launch missiles. We will open more railways and bus routes.
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Old October 28th, 2007, 06:22 PM
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Re: Banana republic pakistan thought of nuking India...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhurandhar
Even US has not been able to come up with a fool proof anti-missile shield, and coupled with the botched up MBT Arjun fiasco.....how many years will DRDO take to come up with some kind of anti-missile system?
It will be atleast a decade more before we can deploy a effective anti-missile system. However, this might only be an anti-ballistic missile defense. Defense against cruise missiles is nearly impossible due to the fact that these missiles are designed to fly-low, terrain hugging trajectory. So, in a sense, India will never be safe from Puke missiles.
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Old October 28th, 2007, 06:52 PM
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Re: Banana republic pakistan thought of nuking India...

Quote:
Originally Posted by echarcha
Let me be clear. Even if you have the best anti-missile or whatever system, its of no use.

Why? Its simple - If Pak launches an attack on us, our government - be it Congress or BJP led - will first think of how to resolve this issue with peace How to label this as simply 'cross border adventurism'.

Then many hours after the missile has struck us, we will turn to the United Nations and lodge a strongly worded protest. By then Russia and US will have stepped in to calm down the issue. Pakistan will not pay heed and we will immediately have Zee TV shows showing how good Pakistani singers are. Mahesh Bhatt will challenge Hindus to come forth and embrace Pakistani Muslims.


So keep all your missile systems with you - We are Indians. We are Gandhi's nation. We wont fight with Pakistan. Oh yes we defended Kargil because our own armed forces had enough self respect and they attacked first and then informed our doddering old Prime Minister Vajpayee ji. He was then forced to save grace call up the Air Force and ask them to bomb and support the military.

Anyway, that was a rare event. Really. Infact Pak need not launch missiles. We will open more railways and bus routes.
Sirji I agree with you ... no disrespect ... not meant to denigrate our members who have participated in this thread ... we know our mlitary and brass is at the mercy of the politicians in power ... bloody coward bunch in Delhi ... BJPwallas, Congress, Leftists, Commies, all.

Please tell ... who among our politicians got the guts, courage, and the gallantry of Lady with balls of steel Late Indira Gandhi to order reciprocal strike upon the land of Pakis? Who ... Sonia? Man Mohan? Lalu?, Karunanidhi? Commies? Leftists? Advani? Old chewtiya Atal? Brave heroes of Bollywood or idol warriors of cricket team?

Please name one or two ...
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Old October 28th, 2007, 07:18 PM
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Re: Banana republic pakistan thought of nuking India...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tantric_yogi
Sirji I agree with you ... no disrespect ... not meant to denigrate our members who have participated in this thread ... we know our mlitary and brass is at the mercy of the politicians in power ... bloody coward bunch in Delhi ... BJPwallas, Congress, Leftists, Commies, all.

Please tell ... who among our politicians got the guts, courage, and the gallantry of Lady with balls of steel Late Indira Gandhi to order reciprocal strike upon the land of Pakis? Who ... Sonia? Man Mohan? Lalu?, Karunanidhi? Commies? Leftists? Advani? Old chewtiya Atal? Brave heroes of Bollywood or idol warriors of cricket team?

Please name one or two ...
Sir we have no politician who can do whatever is necessary for sake of the nation. Recently, our own Prime MInister and Sonia ji roared that they will go ahead with the N Deal with USA. Then when the Left parties objected, and even threatened to withdraw support, the Hon'ble PM and Sonia ji immediately took 10 steps back and decided to forego the deal.

If you read news associated to this fiasco, you will realise that Australia and France - who are part of the nuclear suppliers group - have put all further deliveries to India on hold.

So having said that, Pakistan is a fortunate nation that they dont need to fight us with weapons and missiles. They have a real impotent enemy to deal with. They keep shedding our blood and we open bus routes and train services. They keep amassing missiles and we invite their singers to sing on Zee TV. They keep sending infiltrators and blow up bombs in our trains and we keep playing cricket with them.

So sir, I cannot answer your question as there is not a single politician who can do anything for our national interest.
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