eCharcha.Com   Support eCharcha.Com. Click on sponsor ad to shop online!

Advertise Here

Go Back   eCharcha.Com > Current Affairs > Indian Politics

Notices

Indian Politics Our national time-pass!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #91  
Old October 5th, 2009, 09:26 PM
chitrala's Avatar
chitrala chitrala is offline
Clown Prince
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101
Posts: 8,199
chitrala has a reputation beyond reputechitrala has a reputation beyond reputechitrala has a reputation beyond reputechitrala has a reputation beyond reputechitrala has a reputation beyond reputechitrala has a reputation beyond reputechitrala has a reputation beyond reputechitrala has a reputation beyond reputechitrala has a reputation beyond reputechitrala has a reputation beyond reputechitrala has a reputation beyond repute
Re: PIL Against the Shivaji Statue in the Ocean

Quote:
Originally Posted by raniraja View Post
Death is not the only martyrdom, nor necessarily a symbol of patriotism. Staying alive and standing up to the opponents is bigger patriotism. I guess that's why Shivaji is most revered of the marathas.
RRpai its not death which brings martyrdom... it is people's desperation for heroes to look up to which makes martyrs.... people are dying(sic) to have heroes... so we have legends, myths and exaggerated stories of bravado to make one.... lots of people die for their belief.. rightly or wrongly.... doesn't make much difference... religion is just a personal opinion about god and his ways.... how does clinging to one or changing to another makes one a hero beats me completely...
__________________
I am here because I am nowhere else. But, am I there where I wanted to be?

Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old October 5th, 2009, 10:33 PM
raniraja's Avatar
raniraja raniraja is offline
The Y A W N E S T zzzz
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Surat
Posts: 9,624
raniraja has a reputation beyond reputeraniraja has a reputation beyond reputeraniraja has a reputation beyond reputeraniraja has a reputation beyond reputeraniraja has a reputation beyond reputeraniraja has a reputation beyond reputeraniraja has a reputation beyond reputeraniraja has a reputation beyond reputeraniraja has a reputation beyond reputeraniraja has a reputation beyond reputeraniraja has a reputation beyond repute
Re: PIL Against the Shivaji Statue in the Ocean

Quote:
Originally Posted by chitrala View Post
RRpai its not death which brings martyrdom... it is people's desperation for heroes to look up to which makes martyrs....
you mean it's all in the mind, of the contemporaries? Regardless of the deeds of the ones long gone? Doesn't matter if Sambhaji was a dacoit or sage? We pluck a name out of thin air and make him/her a hero, just to satisfy our need for heroes?
__________________
Nietzsche (1887) : God is dead
God (1900) : Nietzsche is dead
-----------------------------------------
I will not be hurried and I will not be bullied

Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old October 6th, 2009, 07:12 AM
Sane Less's Avatar
Sane Less Sane Less is offline
Dead On Arrival is back
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,992
Sane Less has a reputation beyond reputeSane Less has a reputation beyond reputeSane Less has a reputation beyond reputeSane Less has a reputation beyond reputeSane Less has a reputation beyond reputeSane Less has a reputation beyond reputeSane Less has a reputation beyond reputeSane Less has a reputation beyond reputeSane Less has a reputation beyond reputeSane Less has a reputation beyond reputeSane Less has a reputation beyond repute
Re: PIL Against the Shivaji Statue in the Ocean

Quote:
Originally Posted by raniraja View Post
you mean it's all in the mind, of the contemporaries? Regardless of the deeds of the ones long gone? Doesn't matter if Sambhaji was a dacoit or sage? We pluck a name out of thin air and make him/her a hero, just to satisfy our need for heroes?
You got that right. And people want a hero without even reading and/or understanding what the hero's stand is. For e.g. check Obama in US. He has written biographies... and in one of those biographies he has clearly mentioned that he will always go with the muslims, support them in any way. But still, who does the aam aadmi vote? Even if the aam aadmi is adamantly against the religion of peace, they still voted for him, why? 'cos they wanted a hero... they never cared for what his ideals were... they just want a hero.

We do have enough history of Shivaji... we know he was a great guy... but what we need now is development... development away from central locations. Building a statue of Shivaji, right in the middle of a congested place, is foolishness. But nah, the aam aadmi wants a hero.
__________________
-----------------------------------------------

"Kisi ne sahi kaha zindagi kutti cheez hai. You live life without a care in the world not realizing that life is building a heavy load of trash that it dumps on you one fine day, breaking your back." - saneless
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old October 6th, 2009, 10:29 AM
raniraja's Avatar
raniraja raniraja is offline
The Y A W N E S T zzzz
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Surat
Posts: 9,624
raniraja has a reputation beyond reputeraniraja has a reputation beyond reputeraniraja has a reputation beyond reputeraniraja has a reputation beyond reputeraniraja has a reputation beyond reputeraniraja has a reputation beyond reputeraniraja has a reputation beyond reputeraniraja has a reputation beyond reputeraniraja has a reputation beyond reputeraniraja has a reputation beyond reputeraniraja has a reputation beyond repute
Re: PIL Against the Shivaji Statue in the Ocean

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sane Less View Post
For e.g. check Obama in US. He has written biographies... and in one of those biographies he has clearly mentioned that he will always go with the muslims, support them in any way.
I didn't know that.. If possible, post some link.

We do have enough history of Shivaji... we know he was a great guy... but what we need now is development... development away from central locations. Building a statue of Shivaji, right in the middle of a congested place, is foolishness. But nah, the aam aadmi wants a hero.
So, you are saying that we have had enough of Shivaji as a hero, so a new hero, for newer memorials, is needed. Thus, Sambhaji is handy, he can bask in Shivaji's reflected sunshine, as well gather some of his own?.
Maybe.. it's a logic, lekin apne ko dhakkan wali baat lagti hai. It makes appear as if the history of maharashtra begins and ends with this clan only. Why they have to take only warrior kings/princes as heroes?
__________________
Nietzsche (1887) : God is dead
God (1900) : Nietzsche is dead
-----------------------------------------
I will not be hurried and I will not be bullied

Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old October 7th, 2009, 12:06 AM
chitrala's Avatar
chitrala chitrala is offline
Clown Prince
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101
Posts: 8,199
chitrala has a reputation beyond reputechitrala has a reputation beyond reputechitrala has a reputation beyond reputechitrala has a reputation beyond reputechitrala has a reputation beyond reputechitrala has a reputation beyond reputechitrala has a reputation beyond reputechitrala has a reputation beyond reputechitrala has a reputation beyond reputechitrala has a reputation beyond reputechitrala has a reputation beyond repute
Re: PIL Against the Shivaji Statue in the Ocean

Quote:
Originally Posted by raniraja View Post
Maybe.. it's a logic, lekin apne ko dhakkan wali baat lagti hai. It makes appear as if the history of maharashtra begins and ends with this clan only. Why they have to take only warrior kings/princes as heroes?
Look at it this way... how would the aam junta react to a statue of Aurangzeb.... agreed he killed a lot of people.. but what do you expect from an emperor.... 99% of the subject suffers under a king..... Benevolent king is a myth and lives only in stories.... A king has to be ruthless... has to collect taxes... flip side of the argument is that was the order of the day... we didnt have democracy...A Shivajee might be preferred by majority to an Aurangzeb for multiple reasons including religious... Is that enough to make him a hero.

We have one Shivajee and a few handfuls here and there... muslims have many from Muhammad-bin-kasim to Aurangzeb... Does that lessen the importance of Shivajee in history... I don't think so... Does that make Shivajee a hero...I have reservations about that... He(Shivajee) could be a preferred King... I doubt it would be for his administrative skills though I'm pretty sure there would be hundred books singing his praises about his kindness... I don't see how different would that be from other mughal or sultanet sycophants' work....

I am not demeaning Shivajee or any other warrior/rebel in any way.... it is pointless to seek our heroes in history books.... It is pointless to erect statues of our political leaders..... Our priorities have gone all wrong...
__________________
I am here because I am nowhere else. But, am I there where I wanted to be?

Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old October 7th, 2009, 04:04 AM
viking's Avatar
viking viking is offline
Ass Kicker
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 8,624
viking has a reputation beyond reputeviking has a reputation beyond reputeviking has a reputation beyond reputeviking has a reputation beyond reputeviking has a reputation beyond reputeviking has a reputation beyond reputeviking has a reputation beyond reputeviking has a reputation beyond reputeviking has a reputation beyond reputeviking has a reputation beyond reputeviking has a reputation beyond repute
Re: PIL Against the Shivaji Statue in the Ocean

Quote:
Originally Posted by chitrala View Post
A Shivajee might be preferred by majority to an Aurangzeb for multiple reasons including religious... Is that enough to make him a hero.
Yes it's more than enough to make him not just a hero but also an idol for many generations.

To people like us who value their identity (unlike you of course who is secular ...meaning godless even Islamic maybe) he was the one who helped preserve our existence. We owe our identity to him.

Aurangzeb was a marauder and a merciless killer a mass murdering religious zealot. I wonder how you come up with even this idea of comparing Shivaji Maharaj with this Islamic criminal.

Of course there were people like you even at that time who converted to Islam to save the Jazia tax which was imposed on non-Muslims (as a part of the great administrative prowess of your Islamic hero) But our ancestors who were obviously valued self-respect (in your language communal) did not convert in spite of the coercion, got relief from this draconian tax due to Shivaji Maharaj. We owe it to him.
__________________
Viking Kicking Ass - One Post At A Time
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old October 7th, 2009, 04:40 AM
raniraja's Avatar
raniraja raniraja is offline
The Y A W N E S T zzzz
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Surat
Posts: 9,624
raniraja has a reputation beyond reputeraniraja has a reputation beyond reputeraniraja has a reputation beyond reputeraniraja has a reputation beyond reputeraniraja has a reputation beyond reputeraniraja has a reputation beyond reputeraniraja has a reputation beyond reputeraniraja has a reputation beyond reputeraniraja has a reputation beyond reputeraniraja has a reputation beyond reputeraniraja has a reputation beyond repute
Re: PIL Against the Shivaji Statue in the Ocean

Quote:
Originally Posted by chitrala View Post
We have one Shivajee and a few handfuls here and there... muslims have many from Muhammad-bin-kasim to Aurangzeb...
when you say "We" have a shivaji, i guess you mean the maharashtrians.. Indians as a whole have more than a handful of heroes.. and not just counting the moghuls who were latecomers on this scene.
__________________
Nietzsche (1887) : God is dead
God (1900) : Nietzsche is dead
-----------------------------------------
I will not be hurried and I will not be bullied

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
chatrapati shivaji, mumbai, shivaji memorial, shivaji statue


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
309 foot tall statue of shivaji to come up in arabian sea ashdoc Indian Politics 54 August 28th, 2009 07:28 PM
Competetion to design Shivaji Statue ... among echarcha members. tantric_yogi Cultural Exchange 1 August 28th, 2009 07:07 AM
Shivaji Statue being erected off the Bombay coast JaiSpeaks Indian Politics 50 June 12th, 2008 03:55 PM
Ocean's 12 - Please drown this DVD in the ocean echarcha Films 10 May 13th, 2007 11:03 AM
8.2 Richter scale earthquake once again in Indian ocean echarcha Taaza Khabar - Current news 4 March 28th, 2005 06:48 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Site Copyright © eCharcha.Com 2000-2012.