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  #1  
Old September 10th, 2009, 11:28 PM
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Exclamation PIL Against the Shivaji Statue in the Ocean

Folks,
This might be a touchy subject, but the known Hindi films music director Vishal Dadlani from the Vishal Shekhar duo thinks that erecting a statue is not the right thing to do. What do I think? Well, I will write in time.

Please read what he has to say, and those who are supporting his Public Interest Litigation (PIL).

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  #2  
Old September 10th, 2009, 11:44 PM
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Re: PIL Against the Shivaji Statue in the Ocean

hmm.. hmmm...
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Old September 11th, 2009, 12:04 AM
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Re: PIL Against the Shivaji Statue in the Ocean

Totally agree with him.

We are proud of our history and its heroes but this is an outright wastage of money. 350cr can be well used in name of shivaji maharaj to launch govt schemes to aid poor people in health domain or to provide vocational training to state youths!
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Old September 11th, 2009, 07:27 AM
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Re: PIL Against the Shivaji Statue in the Ocean

Not to digress but similar arguments have been made about India holding lavish Republic day parades... that the money spent there can be utilized in a better way. But there its a totally different thing.

I agree with Mr. Dadlani that this money should be spent in aiding the farmers and students. The govt must also erect Shivaji's statue but with partial help from public. They can seek donations and aid from common man who feels like it. I will surely donate about $30-50 to the cause if I knew its going to the right place.

somebody wrote this over there:

Quote:
"I think Shivaji Maharaj himself would have signed this petition, if he were alive today! ...perhaps, he would even have started it himself."

Last edited by sarv_shaktimaan; September 11th, 2009 at 07:30 AM.
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Old September 11th, 2009, 08:21 AM
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Re: PIL Against the Shivaji Statue in the Ocean

I believe these kind of big and grand installations are required for gratification of human beings. Rs. 350 Cr is a drop in the bucket for any state government but the ROI is enormous. I have visited Mumbai a couple of times and both the time we visited Gateway of India and areas around it. We spent few thousand rupees in the process. If it were not for these big and grand structures I would have not visited Mumbai and I am sure there are many like me.

For any government spending we can find an alternate spending that can be used for the poor, but these poor donít just need food, they need something to see and enjoy and something to see and feel proud off. Shivaji Maharaj is definitely a figure to look up to and get inspiration from.
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Old September 11th, 2009, 09:25 AM
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Re: PIL Against the Shivaji Statue in the Ocean

Quote:
Originally Posted by chando View Post
I believe these kind of big and grand installations are required for gratification of human beings. Rs. 350 Cr is a drop in the bucket for any state government but the ROI is enormous. I have visited Mumbai a couple of times and both the time we visited Gateway of India and areas around it. We spent few thousand rupees in the process. If it were not for these big and grand structures I would have not visited Mumbai and I am sure there are many like me.

For any government spending we can find an alternate spending that can be used for the poor, but these poor don’t just need food, they need something to see and enjoy and something to see and feel proud off. Shivaji Maharaj is definitely a figure to look up to and get inspiration from.
ChandoBhau, so after seeing the gateway of India, are you sure you remain pumped up all the day or may be the whole week ... I am sure if you can manage to be all excited and proud about it for the whole day, then hunger is justified ... it is better to be proud than to be hungry atleast for a day .... Nekst time go during garbachauth or whatever it is called when folks fast, you get to be pious, you get to be proud about marathas or India, and you even get to fast ... just make sure that you turn a blind eye to all those poor folks who are fasting without a reason ...
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Old September 11th, 2009, 09:37 AM
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Re: PIL Against the Shivaji Statue in the Ocean

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Originally Posted by landyaBhai View Post
ChandoBhau, so after seeing the gateway of India, are you sure you remain pumped up all the day or may be the whole week ... I am sure if you can manage to be all excited and proud about it for the whole day, then hunger is justified ... it is better to be proud than to be hungry atleast for a day .... Nekst time go during garbachauth or whatever it is called when folks fast, you get to be pious, you get to be proud about marathas or India, and you even get to fast ... just make sure that you turn a blind eye to all those poor folks who are fasting without a reason ...
I am not against helping the poor. Is that not we have been "doing" all these years in India. And still we have many people going without one meal a day.

I am purely talking business in such big pojects. Think about the tourisim this can bring to Mumbai and the employement it creates for local chaiwalas to Taj.

All I am saying is we cannot always how we can spend "this" money to help the poor. In that case we can say why do we spend so much money on space prog instead give the money to poor.

Society should have overall growth program, that includes mind and body.
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Old September 11th, 2009, 09:46 AM
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Re: PIL Against the Shivaji Statue in the Ocean

Quote:
Originally Posted by landyaBhai View Post
ChandoBhau, so after seeing the gateway of India, are you sure you remain pumped up all the day or may be the whole week ... I am sure if you can manage to be all excited and proud about it for the whole day, then hunger is justified ... it is better to be proud than to be hungry atleast for a day .... Nekst time go during garbachauth or whatever it is called when folks fast, you get to be pious, you get to be proud about marathas or India, and you even get to fast ... just make sure that you turn a blind eye to all those poor folks who are fasting without a reason ...
I dont think you understood Chando's point! He is not talking about getting pumped up or inspired, although that would be one of the positives of such structrues. He is talking about how tourism can be attracted and raising revenue through that. Think about the thousands of street hawkers who make a living by doing business near Mumbai's tourism spots.

People talk about spending on poor. Dont we have enough programmes already which are siphoned off by politicians. Its like a never ending drain where the poor dont receive anything while politicians and beaucrats keep amassing wealth. I am surprised that despite observing India for so long, most of you folks think socialism still works? What India in general and Mumbai in particular, need is infrastructure - more roads, buildings and industries. This is one of them. The construction, maintainence of the site generates employment and once completed it will pay for itself through tourism, in addition to jobs generated by shops that will come up in the vicinity of such places. I dont understand what the govt stands to lose here? Its will only be investing capital which will be re-couped later. Moreover, all the money for this project will be going into the local industry - construction, transportation, workers!
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Old September 11th, 2009, 09:47 AM
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Re: PIL Against the Shivaji Statue in the Ocean

Quote:
Originally Posted by chando View Post
I am not against helping the poor. Is that not we have been "doing" all these years in India. And still we have many people going without one meal a day.

I am purely talking business in such big pojects. Think about the tourisim this can bring to Mumbai and the employement it creates for local chaiwalas to Taj.

All I am saying is we cannot always how we can spend "this" money to help the poor. In that case we can say why do we spend so much money on space prog instead give the money to poor.

Society should have overall growth program, that includes mind and body.
Nobody is against helping the poor ... We are not talking about distributing money to the poor ...

Tell me: how many jobs can tourism provide than outright employment schemes ...

Just because previous projects at removing poverty have failed does not mean we should turn to tourism to help remove poverty ...

Also regarding tourism, what do you think is a major turn off ... A shivaji statue riding proudly on his horse than the beggars on the streets begging here and there around the horse ...
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  #10  
Old September 11th, 2009, 12:09 PM
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Re: PIL Against the Shivaji Statue in the Ocean

Quote:
Originally Posted by landyaBhai View Post
Tell me: how many jobs can tourism provide than outright employment schemes ...
Tourism will help ppl who are really poor. And the number of jobs that will result if such statue is ever erected is enormous. Starting from, small stalls, peanut distributor, Tea stalls, juice stalls, and many more. Employment Schemes, you think we do not have them already? I am sure there are many schemes, only the sad part is they never get implemented and the allocated money is lost in circulation.

Just because previous projects at removing poverty have failed does not mean we should turn to tourism to help remove poverty ...
Why not? It works in places like Agra....what makes you say it will not work here?

Also regarding tourism, what do you think is a major turn off ... A shivaji statue riding proudly on his horse than the beggars on the streets begging here and there around the horse ...
You think if such a major statue if ever erected, they will let beggars sit next to the horse? Common.....last time I have been to Taj Mahal (its been many years), I never saw any beggars sitting on Taj .

The only way to help the poor is by getting them a source of job. We have been trying to eradicate poverty since ages, and only politicians are getting richer. Although we can assume that there will be lots of money eaten to erect the statue, but that money one way or other is going to end up in wrong bank accounts.

Tourism will not only get jobs to the poor, but will also increase the economy in whole.
However, I also like the idea of getting public to erect the statue, so that government doesn't burn out.
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Old September 11th, 2009, 03:29 PM
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Re: PIL Against the Shivaji Statue in the Ocean

Statue of Shivaji would also create employment,like if the horse wants to go to pee or eat grass, person taking the place of the horse would be given 1lac per day

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Old October 2nd, 2009, 10:11 AM
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Re: PIL Against the Shivaji Statue in the Ocean

This morning I ended up in an argument with a good friend of mine whether Shivaji Statue should be erected or not. She sent some link and asked me sign an online petition against building that statue. I refused as i believed that the statue would do good for Mumbai....a big fight followed!!!

Do you think these online petitions help at all?
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Old October 2nd, 2009, 11:40 AM
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Re: PIL Against the Shivaji Statue in the Ocean

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Originally Posted by Rakhi View Post
This morning I ended up in an argument with a good friend of mine whether Shivaji Statue should be erected or not. She sent some link and asked me sign an online petition against building that statue. I refused as i believed that the statue would do good for Mumbai....a big fight followed!!!

Do you think these online petitions help at all?
I dont know if these online petitions really have any impact. Such online petitions are created and signed by net savvy folks in India. They may raise awareness and the media gets something to publish. But I think that politicians dont care because such 'awareness' is by the small part of the electorate which goes on a vacation during elections. They dont care to vote, they just hold 'western style' candle light vigils. The real voter, the 'aam aadmi' who votes might feel passionate for such causes like a statue or memorial. If the aam admi thinks its important then the politicians know the pulse of their electorate and dont even care for such petitions made by 'educated' citizens. Sad but true.

You can check how many petitions have been started online and how many were acted upon.
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Old October 2nd, 2009, 11:50 AM
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Re: PIL Against the Shivaji Statue in the Ocean

My personal opinion on this statue memorial -

I think having a memorial to honor a past hero is not wrong. About costs, well, if a tourist spot comes up and the government can get revenue then its a good thing.

Now look at San Francisco city. It has the famous Golden Gate bridge and tourists from all over the world flock to this bridge. At minimum they spend money for the toll to cross the bridge and reach the visitor area to see the bridge and take photographs.

The economy and funds of the city are at rock bottom and entire California state budget is bankrupt, but the Golden Gate is maintained because it serves not only the purpose for transport across the bay but also serves as a tourist attraction. Tourists do bring in money to the city economy.

And to arguments that we need to feed our poor first, yes I say thats very valid. But if we are to only worry about why send a rocket to the moon, why spend on a modern army, why spend .... then we are stopping some important aspects of nation building. A modern army is needed to protect us and let us live in peace so that progress can be achieved. A scientific mission to the moon lets us master technologies and gain a lot of knowledge which other developed countries have and dont necessarily share with us. A memorial which attracts tourists is necessary as it creates jobs and brings in money from tourism.

If the music producer Vishal Dadlani is so concerned about money being spent on this statue, then he should also question his own film industry. Infact the entire film industry needs to introspect itself. Why do they spend so much money - foreign exchange included - on going to exotic locales abroad, why spend so much money on erecting lavish sets and using up lots of electricity to light up such sets, why spend on so many things? A film can have songs despite exotic locales, a film can have dance sequences without a huge set and using up so much electricity. A film can be shot in locales like the ones in films of the 60s and 70s where Chandivali garden near Aarey Milk Colony ( where the present Film City is located) were the usual backdrops.

Yes there are many issues, many problems, yes we need lots of resources to take care of our poor, our slums, yes we need it all. And no I dont say that erect a statue just because its of Shivaji Maharaj. If they want, they can erect even a Gandhi statue or a Nehru statue. As long as it becomes a landmark which attracts tourists, generates employment and earns for the state coffers, it is alright.

Look at Dharavi slums, they are not all gone. But long ago Rajiv Gandhi sanctioned Rs 100 crore for slum redevelopment. Later on successive state governments allowed private enterprise to build on a Slum Revedevlopment scheme. Today almost 40% to 50% of Dharavi has concrete buildings for the original slum dwellers. The progress is slow but definite.

Yes we have problems, but we cannot be picky about one and then be partial to others.
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Old October 2nd, 2009, 12:06 PM
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Re: PIL Against the Shivaji Statue in the Ocean

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Originally Posted by echarcha View Post
My personal opinion on this statue memorial -
..............if a tourist spot comes up and the government can get revenue then its a good thing.
Ok, two-in-the-bush theory.
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