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chirag2000
June 20th, 2001, 06:51 AM
WIll parvez and atal meeting really have any bearing onn india and pak relations
This is the big question.
I tuned ptv last night and it was having its regular show on -india thrashing. Kashmiri were shown doing morchas against indian govt and supposedly indian army was shown killing innocents.

At the same time i turned on star news and there they were showing how india and pak can work together better

we india want peace but they are not ready.
kashmir has essentially been a part of india and we should never give it away.
we cannot fortell what can happen at the hands of this weak coalition govt.
REMEMBER KASHMIR CAN BE GIVEN AWAY TO PAKISTAN AFTER ALL
IN 1947 WE HAVE LOST THE CRADLE OF OUR CIVILIZATION MOHENJEDARO AND HARAPPA TO PAKISTHAN.
WILL IT BE ALSO DESTROYED BY THE PAKISTANIS MUSLIMS LIKE THE TALIBAN DESTROYED THE PRICELESS BUDDHAS.
WILL ALL JUST STAND AND WATCH.
HISTORY BEING DESTROYED BY THESE VANDALS


akhanda bharat amar rahe
jai hind

Rakshak
June 20th, 2001, 09:57 AM
Chirag,

Dont watch PTV - it is for people with no IQ and has nothing to do with reality. That said, there is no way that Kashmir will be given away to anyone. The outcome of the summit will be as follows-the pig eaters will demand a referundum in Kashmir - India will tell them to (rightly) piss off - and things will go on as they are.

Jai Hind,

Rakshak.

June 20th, 2001, 10:53 AM
Rakshak, is there a sarcasm there or did you actually want to say beef eaters.

On thread subject, the Indus valley civilization being in Pak has no relevance to what is going on in Kashmir today.

chirag2000
June 20th, 2001, 08:39 PM
oh yes it has enri
mohenjedarro and harrapa are our civilizations arent they
but still we are not able to see them
the pakistanis may one day vandalize these places like the way they[taliban] vandalised buddha statues
INDIA will still stand mute["""BECAUSE WE ARE A SECULAR COUNTRY""""]

khanbaba
June 26th, 2001, 09:07 AM
i dont know how come a simple problem become so complex.

tell me one thing? why u call this part ofland 'Kashmir' ? the simple answer is cause it belongs to kashmiris and kashmiris are called kashmiris cause they live in kashmir, its their home land and they should have full right to decide about their future.

think from humanity point of view and tell me..... dont they have the right to decide about their home lands future? its the same right which u have they why dont they should have it?

may be i m wrong... but the best and only solution is to let them decide what they want.....

chirag2000
June 26th, 2001, 08:39 PM
arent kashmiri hindusthanis
now dont say there are only muslims in kashmir
there was time there were 40% hindus in kashmir but they were all driven away to mumbai and delhi. A poll taken now will not reflect the poll of real kashmir but only of some unpatriotic mohammedians

risingsun
June 27th, 2001, 04:45 AM
Originally posted by khanbaba
i dont know how come a simple problem become so complex.

tell me one thing? why u call this part ofland 'Kashmir' ? the simple answer is cause it belongs to kashmiris and kashmiris are called kashmiris cause they live in kashmir, its their home land and they should have full right to decide about their future.

think from humanity point of view and tell me..... dont they have the right to decide about their home lands future? its the same right which u have they why dont they should have it?

may be i m wrong... but the best and only solution is to let them decide what they want.....

O ya thats one of the best solutions, its a pity you propose it after driving more than half of its population out of kashmir or killing them. Wow your initiatives are laudable. muh mein ram bagal mein chhuri.

Other way of looking at it, why do YOU not leave them alone, let them decide what they want to do (by they i mean real kashmiri people who used to live in kashmir initially) why keep sending your bhade ke tattus to maintain the unrest within them, to kill them to drive them away.

Netra
June 27th, 2001, 05:21 AM
Khanbaba I know you have good intentions but if Kashmir is for Kashmiris, is Pakistan willing to take a plebiscite in Pakistan occupied Kashmir? If Kashmir is for Kashmiris with what right did Pakistan sell a part of it to China. Will Pakistan ask China to hold a plebiscite in CoK also? Why is Pakistan hounding India and not China?

With the same logic you have used, Sind is for Sindhis and Baluchistan is for Baluchis. Is Pakistan willing to give them their freedom?

Indian
June 27th, 2001, 06:19 AM
where is the solution ?
Every thing is said and done ..every body has their own opinions ..all are right in their position.
But..
What is the ultimate solution for Kashmir Problem ?
Any one ?
Any idea ?
:(

risingsun
June 27th, 2001, 06:23 AM
Originally posted by Indian
where is the solution ?
What is the ultimate solution for Kashmir Problem ?
Any one ?
Any idea ?
:(

ya there is
step one :
Pak withdraws all forces from kashmir

two :
Pak gives up all its interest in kashmir, releases POK

three :
Kashmiris rehabilitate back to kashmir.

Netra
June 27th, 2001, 06:24 AM
What about China occupied Kashmir?

risingsun
June 27th, 2001, 06:33 AM
I was trying to answer khanbaba.

About CoK we will have to talk to chinese :) and tell them to give it up. That will be an entirely different issue though, because we have border jhagdas with china at more places which include northeastern state borders.

Indian
June 27th, 2001, 06:41 AM
Just see the diverse opinions here

..we being just a handfull of people here on this discussion board have so many diverse interests and opinions.
how can we expect a fast or immediate solution to kashmir issue where vested intersts play and promote all their interests ?

Two Countrie's prestige/reputation is associated with this issue.
Two Countrie's people have strong emotions,egos in this issue.
Two Countrie's politicians have their own interests.
Kashmiris have their own set of demands.
Solution has to make USA, China ,Russia Happy.
Religion,Money, Land is associated with this issue.

I really pray to god ..to solve this issue...But..
I think this issue will continue for atleast two more decades , people will die, soldiers will die, more terrorists will die. I am not trying to be pessimistic or a bad guy here..just guessing the future :(

Stil...
I INVITE ALLl eCharchans TO POST THEIR POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS TO KASHMIR HERE , whatever u think is right ..JUST POST IT HERE. May be Musharraf and Vajpayee will pick an idea from here :)

Netra
June 27th, 2001, 06:44 AM
Surya, why should we talk to the Chinese? Pakistan has sold a part of Kashmir to China, so they should buy it back. Kya bolta hain?

risingsun
June 27th, 2001, 07:06 AM
Originally posted by Netra
Surya, why should we talk to the Chinese? Pakistan has sold a part of Kashmir to China, so they should buy it back. Kya bolta hain?

Ekdam sahi plan hai bhidu.

Not only should they buy it back they should also pay a penalty for selling it to China. Since they are a past part of us, we could offer them (pakis) our help in bargaining for prices since we have cards against them (chinkis) in that they (chinkis) have been wrongfully occupying many other parts of us. pak ko thok ka bhaav bhi dilva sakte hai :D dekha kitna bada dil hai mera!!!

Idhar jitne hawa mein rajwaade baandhe gaye hai usse saari duniya ke palaces replace ho sakte hai :D

khanbaba
June 27th, 2001, 07:52 AM
dear fellows, i think i did'nt explain my point of view well. i admit my fault and appologize for that.

let me try once again and let me tell you that i have no intentions to offend any one. i what i want is to find out some solution that should be accepted to all parties and lets get out of this aimless fight where we are wasting our resources.

friends, i have no problem if the problem can be solved by giving kashmir to india. tell me truthfully, do u really think that all kashmirs want this ??? if yes, congratulations in advance because whenever there will be a poll, kashmiris will vote in favor of india and i will be as happy as you.

but for God sake, lets find out some solution to this problem, we have other things to do also, both of us, india and pakistan are going in wrong direction.

thanx for reading all this.....

risingsun
June 27th, 2001, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by khanbaba

let me try once again and let me tell you that i have no intentions to offend any one. i what i want is to find out some solution that should be accepted to all parties and lets get out of this aimless fight where we are wasting our resources.

friends, i have no problem if the problem can be solved by giving kashmir to india. tell me truthfully, do u really think that all kashmirs want this ??? if yes, congratulations in advance because whenever there will be a poll, kashmiris will vote in favor of india and i will be as happy as you.

but for God sake, lets find out some solution to this problem, we have other things to do also, both of us, india and pakistan are going in wrong direction.

thanx for reading all this.....

no, again you did not explain your viewpoint.
What do you mean by giving kashmir to India?
for Gods/allah's sake do not ask for a poll there when half of its residents are not in, ok?
and again what do you mean by offer acceptable to all parties? there are only 2 parties Indians in Kashmir and Indians out of Kashmir ok?

khanbaba
June 27th, 2001, 08:33 AM
1. giving kashmir to india means to bring entire kashmir under india's control.

2. i never said conduct the polls without kashmiris.. did I?
bring all the kashmiris back.. or polling both can be arranged all over india, pakistan and else where kashmiris are living.

3. finally, although in my opinion u r have wrongly quoted the parties involved in the issue but lets say these are the only 2 parties involved then please sort out the issue maing these parties happy and lets live peace-fully.

BUT, my dear fellow, believe me by indicating the wrong parties u have proved that u r not kashmiri and u never seen your relatives being killed, you never seen houses on fire... u never seen the dead bodies of youths there ......... and thats why you are not sincere to sort out the matter cause you are ot the one suffering from this issue.

my dear risingsun, please pay a visit to kashmir and see how the valley is being ruled by death...... we need to stop it yaar, those are our brothers being killed there.

kingpisser
June 27th, 2001, 08:37 AM
methinks this dude khanbaba is either pukistani or on the side of pukistan. Honest question khanbaba... who's side are you on ??

ok, a simple question to pukistanis.... according to all geographical and political books, who does Kashmir belong to ?? Yes, India. Therefore, back the f**k off and don't expect us to give something up that legally belongs to us. No one gives a shit about the so-called 'Kashmiris' you're talking about think. If they ( ie, the ones who want to secede ) love that shithole Pukistan so much, well, let them go there. Just why the hell should we let them carry any baggage from here, OUR country ?

If you wanna know what exactly i think about this whole issue, watch the movie Gadar. F**king fanatics... still obsessed with the British, still under the delusion that a whole lot other than Pukistan ( yuck !! ) belongs to them. Well, we know where they're headed......

Mera Bharat mahaan.

Kingpisser.

risingsun
June 27th, 2001, 08:54 AM
Originally posted by khanbaba
1. giving kashmir to india means to bring entire kashmir under india's control.

2. i never said conduct the polls without kashmiris.. did I?
bring all the kashmiris back.. or polling both can be arranged all over india, pakistan and else where kashmiris are living.

3. finally, although in my opinion u r have wrongly quoted the parties involved in the issue but lets say these are the only 2 parties involved then please sort out the issue maing these parties happy and lets live peace-fully.

BUT, my dear fellow, believe me by indicating the wrong parties u have proved that u r not kashmiri and u never seen your relatives being killed, you never seen houses on fire... u never seen the dead bodies of youths there ......... and thats why you are not sincere to sort out the matter cause you are ot the one suffering from this issue.

my dear risingsun, please pay a visit to kashmir and see how the valley is being ruled by death...... we need to stop it yaar, those are our brothers being killed there.

if there are only 2 parties involved how can a solution be found if the third meddles in it?
why dont you tell me who else do you think should be concerned with it? Pakistan? if you are saying that then you are completely wrong my friend.
What is the relation between seeing dead bodies and not understanding problems? You seem to be under delusion like your fellow countrymen. All this reign of death and terror has been forced on kashmir by pakistan, right from 1948 when your country outright marched on kashmir till today when you actively sponser proxy war within kashmir. Your country is responsible for it.

kingpisser, i think khan baba says he is a pakistani.

kingpisser
June 27th, 2001, 09:03 AM
know what risingsun, i think... actually, i KNOW that he is our dear Aungu in disguise. Funny, what these Pukes do !!

chirag2000
June 27th, 2001, 09:24 AM
Do u know why pakistan wants kashmir so badly
NO ITS NOT PRESTIGE

kashmir is stategically located with acess to china.
the pakis will surely wage a war and we are gonna have a hard time defending our country

Rahul
June 27th, 2001, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by khanbaba
BUT, my dear fellow, believe me by indicating the wrong parties u have proved that u r not kashmiri and u never seen your relatives being killed, you never seen houses on fire... u never seen the dead bodies of youths there ......... and thats why you are not sincere to sort out the matter cause you are ot the one suffering from this issue.

my dear risingsun, please pay a visit to kashmir and see how the valley is being ruled by death...... we need to stop it yaar, those are our brothers being killed there.

Now khanbaba, how many dead bodies did you seen, and how many of them is your relatives, now Iíll tell u, I have seen many bodies (of our army and BSF jawan) and most of them relatives of my friends and so they are mine, for you information sack buddy, there is no more Kashmiri pundit remaining now, if you really want to see beyond your media and PTV come and visit any Kashmiri pundits camp in Delhi and surround area and you Ďll come to know a entire different picture, and may be you'll find yourself with your Govt to responsible for all that, so dont play drama of your brother are suffering etc etc.

Khanbaba, if you so sympathizes with houses on fire and dead bodies in kashmir, thatís happening in many place in Pakistan like Baluch and punjab too(its happening a lot with Mohajir and Sindhies) , they too your relative right, why donít you give freedom to Baluch and sindh first, if you are thinking Kashmiri muslim is your brother becoz they are plain Muslim, Whose going to think about 48% population of Kashmiri pundit (whose running out from valley becoz of Pakistani sponsored terrorist).

viking
June 27th, 2001, 10:07 AM
Congratulations khanbaba with these kind of thoughts and ideas for kashmir I dont think you will be able to make the Kashmiris happy but I can tell you one thing you will definately ensure a position for yourself in political parties like Samajwadi Party or Italian congress of India.Those leaders talk just like you.

I remember Mulayam sing yadav making a statement that India Pakistan and Bangladesh should form a confederation like Europe
with no visa restrictions for entering each others countries.Wasent that a super secular satement!!??:D

viking
June 27th, 2001, 10:18 AM
Why talk of just peace in Kashmir??There can be world peace if..

1)Palistine is given away to the Palistinians

2)Chechnya is given away to the Chechens

3)Osama bin laden is allowed to bomb all US installations unopposed.

4)Bosnia is given away to Bosnians

5)Islamic hardliners are given a right to rule in Egypt

6)A separate province for Muslims is created in Phillipines

...

...

Arent all our brothers being killed everywhere?

It's time that not just Hindu Indians but the whole world shows some brotherly love to our Muslim brothers!!

khanbaba
June 27th, 2001, 11:00 AM
yes risingsun.. u r 100% right. i m pakistani and muslim. if u read my other posts, some where i have already mentioned that.

risingsun, i m living and working abroad. till the time i was in pakistan, i used to be very narrow-minded but since i m working in one of the gulf country, i found indian (or hindus) they are human beings like me in all respects, and on the top of all this, there is no difference between us except the relegion and passport.

as far as relegion is concerned, no relegion including islam, hinduism or christianity tell us to hate followers of other relegion. as far as nationality is concerned, i believe that all this hate we have for each other is only developed because of the dirty politics we have in our region.

lets get back to kashmir. i dont want kashmir for pakistan or for that matter i myself is not interested who takes it. i just want peace between india and pakistan in order to move in the direction of prosperity.

my experience is that we have the best talent and resources in indo-pak which is not there in any other country of world. then tell me why we are not among most developed nations? i think kashmir is the only major problem between india and pakistan where we are wasting our resources like any thing. just imagine, if this problem get solved and we use the same resouces for education, health and other social issues, very soon we can stand among the developed nations of the world.

risingrun, viking & rahul. i told u that i am not here to fight. i dont want kashmir for any party whoever it is and when i refer to dead bodies there, i dont mean only muslims. whether its a hindu soldier, muslim soldier, indian, pakistani or kashmiri for me hes a human being who should be killed and whose family shouldnt be suffered.

cmon guys, come out of the shell of pakistani and indian. dont think about relegion. think only about that how we can improve relations, we are neighbourers and we should help each other. our problems are common, our tradation and culture is common, we can get benefit from each others experience.

and yaar.. if u want to fight with me cause i have posted my thoughts on this board then you are trying on wrong person. i may have a difference in opinion with you, but i believe that you have this right too and your different opinion is always welcome.

and dont forget.. being human being, i can do mistakes and can produce wrong ideas. may be whatever i have written in this n previous post is just a piece of shit and u dont agree with it. you dont have to....

finally, just one final question, if i m sitting in front of you and i dont agree with your ideas, will u start beating me? will u start fighting with me? i m sure NO cause educated ppl dont have to behave like this.

THEN WHY AS A NATION WE DONT HAVE PATIENCE TO LISTEN EACH OTHER ????

meri samajh main kooch nahi aata !!!!!!

khanbaba
June 27th, 2001, 11:09 AM
let me tell u that i have no doubt that bharat is mahan and i am sure being bharati you and all indians are mahan too and its a matter of proud for me that i m neighbourer of such a mahan nations and ppl thats why i want very good relations between india and pakistan.

secondly, i am khanbaba and very new to this forum, i m not disgusied. if you want more details about me u can email me personaly at khanbaba@mail.com and i can tell u my whereabouts.

kingpisser
June 27th, 2001, 05:20 PM
I apologize khanbaba, i misunderstood you for someone else.... we have some real morons on this forum who just like to stir up trouble, and for some stupid reason i thought u were one of them in disguise ( e, Aungu, are u listening ? )....

I appreciate your views and the desire to stop the needless massacre and to foster cooperation between the two countries.
But I have a nit to pick with one point. Not necessarily your's, but the general opinion from Pakistan. Why wait to improve relations AFTER taking Kashmir away from India ?? Why not let the status quo remain if all ye want is peace. I hope you could answer this from the other perspective.

Peace

Kingp

khanbaba
June 30th, 2001, 11:36 AM
cmon man.. no need to sorry, its ok yaar.

kingpisser, i think kashmir is not the condition for peace and it shouldnt be. lakin.. u know its human physco that the relation between two parties cant move in position direction if there is any conflict exist between them.