Latent Racism

[viking]

I was talking to an old white lady once and she kept asking me questions such as:

1)Do you plan to go back to India?

2)Are all your friends Indian?

3)Do your friends ever buy American cars?

4)How many family members do you have here?

5)There are so many Indians here arent they?

Dont you guys think that this racism could escalate and hurt us some point of time in the comming years?

[viking]

Have any one of you faced this kind of racism ever in the USA ?

[kate]

Someone is just being nice to you, wanted to talk to you. If I were you, I would extend the conversation, ask about the lady rather than think that she is racist.

Unfortunately, many Indians in USA think that they can't fit into this society and avoid the local americans and complain of racism. I think that there is more castism and racism in India than here in USA.

Just my opinion, you are certainly entitled to yours!!

[viking]

It's not just that her reactions is what counts.She dosent like it if I say yes maybe I'll stay on in the US etc.

Questions like "dont the Indians ever think of going back?" etc are not exactly friendly.

Wonder if she would ask another white guy these kinda questions?

Have these white guys forgotten that America is a land of immigrants?.They themselves are here after decimating the local Indian polpulation!.

And I have several American friends too it's not that I shy away from them or something.

Also note the word latent

[kate]

.... and not with the questions themselves.

Americans know that this is a land of immigrants, which is why you and me are here. Let me ask you, Do you ever think of going back to India? Does that make me a racist? Haven't you asked yourself this question? Does that make you a racist?

I think that you are unnnecessarliy pondering over a trivial issue. You are just like several other desis who suffer from an inferiority complex and when a local american talks to them, they think that they are being made fun of. The 200 years of colonialism ought to have changed our thinking.

I am glad, I never look at it this way.

[Xandu]

viking,

just reverse the situation, imagine an american with you in a bus in India and you get chatting, wouldnt you ask him pretty much the same set of questions?

and if you were to fire the questions like "So you like India? Are you going to stay here or go back?"
and get responses like "Oh yes. I think it's a great country and I will definitely like to stay because the people here are so nice!!" ... or something complimentary.
Doesn't that make you feel good about your country and countrymen?

It's just how you react to their queries....

They are definitely not asking you to hear something like "I'm sorry lady. I dont know how the sinned me came here. I'm leaving immed" ,,,, ,do they??

X

[padhu]

...but one of her questions is true

i have rarely seen our desi's buy american cars (usually toyota and honda).......i have always wondered about this.

any reasons for that ???

as for her questions, its not racism at all. she is just being qurious. I have met so many old people here and they are fascinated with so many of us indians here working together. I haven't got even one racist remark from anyone out here.

[Xandu]

padhu,

Toyota and Honda are good cars. And I suppose, from what I heard, till a few years ago that American cars reqiired more maintenance and tend to have a shorter life and lower resale values.

The choice of a 2nd hand car for Indians is usually Toyota, Honda or Nissan because they tend to be more reliable than the American cars that were sold around the late 80's or early 90's. most of my student friends have opted for pure reliability reasons.

Ofcourse, our older relatives sitll maintain that Toyota is refined etc.. those who would still choose Toyota are actually doing it for the resale value. Something that most 'desis' want to take advantage of.

But I have been thinking differently for several days regardless of people's advise... Chevy Malibu is an excellent car, I had one for 3 months and really liked it. Dodge Intrepid is also another car on my mind. They stopped making the Camaro these days else it has some too good looks and power. I feel that the American cars have indeed gotten better and ought to be tried out. The Accord coupe and Camry are still very good though but Corolla sucks. And i dont know how many of you know this, but Corolla and a Dodge model (neon i guess) have the same engine,

A couple of my Indian friends are also thinking Mustang etc (you pay about a little more than a Camry for a Mustang sexy convertible).

wot you all say?

X

[viking]

I understand your point of view guys..but there is something which makes me feel that she dosent like Indians.

But there is one more thing I observed amongst Indians.
Some of these guys are plainly dirty..use of deodarants is not known to them although it costs not more tham 3 - 5 dollars.They do not mind roaming around shopping centers with bathroom slippers or chappals.Some of the women here tie that one plait behind their backs with most of the hair unkempt.Some of them even go around with sandal wood on their throats and foreheads with lots of coconut oil on their heads.

Hell all this reflects very poorly on our entire community.
Maybe this might cause some of the Americans to despise us.

[aryaputra]

pure desi Indians don't use deodorants. accepted.


but even the best of Americans do not clean their tongue with a tongue cleaner....something which even the sweeper in india would do....what about that?


should we hate the americans for not cleaning their tongues?

and don't give me the crap about mouth fresheners...it's bullshit.. i have tried a couple of days like that and I felt horrible...there is no substitute for a tongue cleaner....something which you get 12 for a dollar(stainless steel that too) :)

[viking]

I understand that you use tongue cleaner and one which is made up of stainless steel too,but dont you accept some of our Indians here are so crappy.I mean
they earn so much yet dress up like rag pickers.We are guests to this country our behaviour is being watched or we too get branded with the same brand as Mexicans or the afro americans.

[smellyfinger]

A lot of this depends on where in the country you are and whom you talk to. I spent a long time in Mississippi, and believe me, you can cut some of the vibes with a knife especially away from the city. Some of those guys still act as if they have never seen a "brown" person before, and try to show you your place, without breaking the law. e.g. A waiter knows he has to serve you, but will take 20 minutes before he takes your order. Even then, no smiles, just a harsh tone "whatdya want?". And before you say it must be because I did not tip him properly, this was the first time I went there.

When you go to the bigger cities, this tends to disappear unless you talk to really old people (especially southerners) who in their minds are still living in the pre civil liberties act era.

So, I think viking is not totally unjustified in his opinion, and at the same time neither is Kate. How's that for fence-sitting??

[smellyfinger]

Originally posted by viking
I understand that you use tongue cleaner and one which is made up of stainless steel too,but dont you accept some of our Indians here are so crappy.I mean
they earn so much yet dress up like rag pickers.We are guests to this country our behaviour is being watched or we too get branded with the same brand as Mexicans or the afro americans.

Viking,
now that is a racist statement. Indians can be just as racist when it comes to Hispanic or African Americans as we think the white people are. Your post has a very condescending and derogatory tone.

[viking]

I'am not racist but I have seen these white American guys brand the Blacks and Mexicans as inferior and I know that they must be putting us Indians in the same basket too.I started this thread only because I was getting this feeling for some time now.

[aryaputra]

Politically also, the GOP is considered one against new immigrants and people of color.

The democrats are for the immigrants , people of color & the labor class- hence the increase in H1 quota each year and relaxed immigration laws.

[kate]

I think black americans and hispanics are equal with the whites or the Indians.

Anyone thinking otherwise is racist. Before talking about other Indians on how they dress and how important they think their appearence is, I think, you need to look at yourself too. All along you have been finding faults with white americans as being racists, then with indians not being appearance concious and then making racist remarks against blacks and hispanics.

No one is perfect, but here the problem is totally with you. I don't think like you or even act in a manner described by you. Someone else on this board had said that you can get only as much respect from americans as you desrve. I don't think that you are worthy on any.

Just my opinon, you are entitled to yours!!

[TheMan]

-----------------
Viking said:
I understand that you use tongue cleaner and one which is made up of stainless steel too,but dont you accept some of our Indians here are so crappy.I mean they earn so much yet dress up like rag pickers.We are guests to this country our behaviour is being watched or we too get branded with the same brand as Mexicans or the afro
americans.
-----------------

While I do feel this is racist, it is a true fact. Despite years of equal rights, nothing really changes unless it is in the minds of the people. For most white people, it will take a generation or two to change. While we can take the high road and argue that all are equal and so we should do nothing about it, we also owe fellow Indians and the Indians in the future who come here a good reputation. Indians (at least in most of the cases) have a image of model minority and I think we should try to keep it at that.

[tantric_yogi]

It is disgusting going to some of our Indian homes and finding on toilet seats or nearby glasses rusty old tongue cleaners...
We use tooth brush to clean and it does what a tooth brush is supposed to do...
Have we ever wondered what a local person would think of finding tongue cleaner in a glass close to toilet set...

In all fairnes to local people, let's not forget that old generation never had any asian classmates, office mates or neighbors. Their only impression of us people is what they see on TV or read in newspapers.
Your children will have far less problems with local population as they have grown up together and gone
to schools together...
By the way I think we Asians, Indians, Pakistanis, Banladeshis and in particular Chinese and Japanese are the worst when it comes to descrimination...

[kate]

Originally posted by tantric_yogi
.....By the way I think we Asians, Indians, Pakistanis, Banladeshis and in particular Chinese and Japanese are the worst when it comes to descrimination...

pl clarify .... are you saying that these asians, indians ... are discriminated against (i.e. worst affected) or are you saying that they discriminate the most when it comes to race.

[aryaputra]

Originally posted by tantric_yogi
It is disgusting going to some of our Indian homes and finding on toilet seats or nearby glasses rusty old tongue cleaners...
We use tooth brush to clean and it does what a tooth brush is supposed to do...
Have we ever wondered what a local person would think of finding tongue cleaner in a glass close to toilet set...
........

my dear tantric, stainless steel / plastic tongue cleaners do not rust :)

Maybe somebody was using a mild-steel tongue cleaner :) ...his/her choice...not everybodys.

Did you know that in Hollywood, the stars have amonst other things like hair-dressers, manicure specialists, massage parlours..they also have a tongue-cleaner specialist ?

As far as a local (US, i guess) person finding a tongue cleaner......he should be educated about the advantages of the tongue cleaner.

[aryaputra]

Thanks big-G for the eye-opener.

But then why do so many whites stink ? when you are sitting close to them?

[aryaputra]

I guess so :)

[viking]

Another breed of racists are these Chinese....all that they look for is white guys!!

[aurangzeb]

That problem of racism is faced more by Indian infidels because they are black.We Pathans never faced this problem.

[Indian]

people are worst discriminated when they claim they are from paki land :D

dont believe me ..go and check here

http://www.echarcha.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=375

[Xandu]

ohhh aungu!!

Is that why pathans come and open rastaurants here calling it Indian restaurants... and taxi drivers like you chauffer for Indian commuters? :D

X

[siliconwhizkid]

Aurangzeb

Ppl from Pakistan are mujahirs
PPl from Afghanistans are Afghans.

You do not know even that ........

Aurangzeb gives it a Hindu-Muslim, Indo-Pak twist and the indian patriots jump all over him. I support you guys, but, ignoring him will probably work better!!

[viking]

The Oscar award ceremony was an eye opener..it started off by that comment.....the compare pointing towards the oscar statue behind him said "if this statue was in Afghanistan it would have been destroyed by now".

That is the ridicule you Afghan Pathans will now get from the civilised world.

[kameena]

As far as the lady being curious, Guys dont you think some amount of blame is on us. Dont you think that the first generation Indians have a Ghetto mentality.
I mean we Indians never mix up with anyone other than another Indian. if I say this I will get a howl of protest saying that I have such and such white friend etc etc.

But tell me how many of these American friends are outside the realm of our professional lives. we make a lot of Indian friends outside our professional lives but do we make even a tenth of the number of american friends. No.

I have been here for a few years and I have found this as a real acute problem. So it is natural for the americans to be a bit curious about us.

you opinions are welcome

most desis that I have met in USA avoid the local americans. Even at work they prefer to mingle with desis only, make sarcastic and racist comments on locals in their mother tongue.

How can these people expect to be treated well in this country. I don't live in a city that is highly dominated by desis like NY, Chicago, LA or SFO and may be there is a difference in these cities, but I have noticed that most americans want to befriend you and it usually starts with the Indian food but most desis are too conservative to make the next move.

[aryaputra]

Now eNRI. That is a nice observation.

yes. most of the desi's are conservative in nature especially when it comes to befriending a white guy.

Have you ever thought WHY?

Think...think...

[tantric_yogi]

being first generation migrants it is but natural that we seek compony of people of our own cultural background...
it was the same story with Italians or greeks or
germans...
very naturaly human tendency is to bind with own kind...
the changes will start taking place when natural born Indians come in to their own...that's when they might actually avoid company of their own kind ...strange but true...



in the meantime remember:
SHIT FLOATS BUT PISS MINGLES!
who would you rather be floater or mingler?

huhhhh....

most suffer from inferiority complex. after all 200 years of britsh rule ought to have changed the thinking. i think i have seen this reasoning earlier or may be i myself wrote it.

but not everyone is like that. NOT ME ATLEAST!!!

you are such a loser!!!

[indiantramp]

I think someone would use a mouth fresheners only if they don't brush their teeth. Interesting thought thought, that's been raised, about the use the deodrants. Why do Americans have this phobia? I mean if you take a shower daily do you really need a deodrant. And let me accept this has caught up with me too.

[smellyfinger]

I think the reasons are much simpler than "British Raj" and "racism" etc.

It is commonality. A friend, by definition, needs to have a lot of common interests as you. First generation Indian Americans (esp males) have the following interests (By and large) -

1. Sports - Cricket
2. Food - Indian food / Spicy food
3. Movies - Indian movies
4. Immigration questions
5. Paki bashing
6. Indian politics
7. Indian festivals

.. list goes on.

How many of these can you share with a non Indian ?? I have found the best way to make friends is sports. I am very much into American sports. This serves as a great ice breaker, and makes conversation easy.

Ever wonder why single Indian girls ( I mean the educated, city dwelling types) make non Indian friends more easily .. commonality of interests. One word .. shopping ;)

[indiantramp]

smellyfinger I think you forgot to add one interest that beats them all WOMEN!!!

[aryaputra]

that's a diffcult subject to bring up.

you may end up being beaten up :D

[indiantramp]

smellyfinger said:
Ever wonder why single Indian girls ( I mean the educated, city dwelling types) make non Indian friends more easily .. commonality of interests. One word .. shopping...

You mean American guys are into shopping as much as the girls?!:confused:

And Arya,
Beat me black or blue
but accept what I said too.
Women are more interesting
than sports or being fed
the exception is the one you wed.;)

[smellyfinger]

I meant "non Indian girlfriends", dumbass.. :D :D

[indiantramp]

Aaah! you should be specific.We dumb people think perverted.:D

[Big-G]

Tantrik said:
in the meantime remember:
SHIT FLOATS BUT PISS MINGLES!


:D :D
I guess, that makes me "loose motion". Bit of it floats, bit of it mingles, and the rest just splatters the bowl.

:D :D

(uggghhhhh....am I gross or what? )

[aryaputra]

Originally posted by indiantramp
smellyfinger said:
Ever wonder why single Indian girls ( I mean the educated, city dwelling types) make non Indian friends more easily .. commonality of interests. One word .. shopping...

You mean American guys are into shopping as much as the girls?!:confused:

And Arya,
Beat me black or blue
but accept what I said too.
Women are more interesting
than sports or being fed
the exception is the one you wed.;)

I mean, talking about white girls with white men...they will beat you up..not me :D

[indiantramp]

Then lets speak about non-white women with white guys and white women with non-white guys!!:D

[aryaputra]

Originally posted by indiantramp
Then lets speak about non-white women with white guys and white women with non-white guys!!:D

would they be genuinely interested?

also, how would it feel if some white guy goes about speaking horrible stories(usually thaat is what men talk about...dirty jokes) about your indian female colleague? would you like it and participate+contribute or shy away from the discussion or think about beating them up?

looking for opinions, please contribute.

[indiantramp]

When you want to speak dirty the race doesn't matter. I know lots of Indian guys who speak dirty about Indian women. What triggers this? I really don't know. Is it the way you feel about a particular person? I'm not saying that guys speak about every woman they see. Maybe some women just ask for it. Shoot their mouth off. Pout. Its actually much more complex than that. What would I personally do if some white guy speak dirty about an Indian colleague? Maybe just ease away from there. I'm not saying I never spoke dirty. I did when I was a teenager. What would you do if an Indian were to speak about a white woman?

[aryaputra]

Originally posted by indiantramp
When you want to speak dirty the race doesn't matter. I know lots of Indian guys who speak dirty about Indian women. What triggers this? I really don't know.

Indian men speak dirty about Indian women.
White men speak dirty about white women.

But do white+indian men get together to speak dirty about white+indian women without apprehension?

I have yet to see it.

has anybody?

[indiantramp]

Happened a couple of times with me. One one of the assignments I was on, there was this white guy who had no apprehensions whatsoever. You know what he used to call women? GUI (Graphical User Interface) and used to call the parts of the body Controls. So put together it becomes GUI Controls. If he saw a big breasted woman it would be a sophosticated GUI else it would be a DOS version. With each day he would improvise it a bit more. But yes I have heard white + indian men speak without a care in the world.

[Big-G]

But do white+indian men get together to speak dirty about white+indian women without apprehension?

Bhai, Son of Arya, I do it everyday without fail with my white colleagues. And they in turn do the same with me. During lunch and all we sit and study the chics passing by. They are of my age and bachelors. ANd it is so very common. I don't believe you never saw it happening.

[aryaputra]

Big-G, ab hum to buddhe log ke beech mein baithte hain. Kya kare?

[kameena]

Actually guys, my experience in this thing has been really different. I too like most first generation desis mingled only with desis in the beginning. But soon I realised that was the problem and most of them were still curious about India and the Indian culture. Media here keeps playing on about exoticness of India and that doesnt help matters also.

Soon I realised the only way to stop the curio questions is to mingle with americans, and consequently I invited one of them for dinner (one who was fond of Indian food). He soon invited me to his home and introduced me to a host of other friends. Soon I found myself with lot of other american friends outside my professional life. Soon the questions about India stopped and they accepted me as one of their own. Never was there any latent or somewhat racism. Yeah whenever I meet a new person he has a few questions about culture and lifestyle there, which I attribute to curiousity rather than racism.
Noone has EVER asked me when I am going back. Believe me guys it is the only way to educate the amercians about us.

In fact most of them now appreciate the fact that I am a vegetarian and in parties they invite me they make sure there is something veggie available for me.

[Big-G]

Arya wrote:
Big-G, ab hum to buddhe log ke beech mein baithte hain. Kya kare?

Arya Bhai, buddhey zyaadaa tharki hotey hain !! :D :D

Magar kasam sey, tumhari shakal aur body sey to tum 24 saal sey upar nahin lagtey. Kya raaz hai ??

[aryaputra]

asli Chyavanprash!

[smellyfinger]

I, too, believe in Equal Opportunity Leching. Indian girls should not be exempt .. :D :D

[Big-G]

Lechers of the world.. (((GROUP HUG))))) !!!!!

[tantric_yogi]

Kameena tumne aisa likha:
>>>Soon I realised the only way to stop the curio questions is to mingle with americans, and consequently I invited one of them for dinner (one who was fond of Indian food). He soon invited me to his home and introduced me to a host of other friends. Soon I found myself with lot of other american friends outside my professional life. Soon the questions about India stopped and they accepted me as one of their own.<<<

Kameena, obv he a single guy. Wait till ya married and try on married couples...never works...they come hv pun...
nvr invite ya back...UNLESS of course they are in a community or company surrrounded by us smelly
Easterners. Then they hv no choiced...

This exp not from me but from so many of my fellow
pro's same exp every time....

[tantric_yogi]

BIGG JEEE aisa likhta hai:
>>>I guess, that makes me "loose motion:rolleyes: ". Bit of it floats, bit of it mingles, and the rest just splatters the bowl<<< :D

Thats human nature. At times me to feel like shit and other times I feel like piss and other times can not make up my mind...Very normal...

[Big-G]

wow !!... Profound...real Profound !!!

Socrates and Plato must be somersaulting in their graves.

:D :D