just wonderin how in-flight refuelling works

[vyomkeshsaxena]

i've heard lotsa about mid-air refuelling of aircrafts to enable them to carry out long-range air-raids..i was just wondering how a fighter aircraft with such velocity n turbulent condition hooks upto a tanker aircraft and refuels..i knoe there is a probe for it..but dont u think its difficult to point a hose pipe into aircrafts probe n start refuelling..also if the aircraft is single-engined isnt their a possiblity that a error in refuelling can rip the jet apart....bcoz at such velocities n may be high temps. the aviation turbine fuel may catch fire..i mean i ken never imagine fuelling my motorcycle with petrol while driving :D .also IAF has ordered these tanker aircrafs..and in the absence of previous experience of mid-air refuelling..wont IAF pilots find it difficult and need extensive training in that :(
p.s- are their any special avionic systems to make the right contact between the tanker and aircraft...much like what we have ILS (Instrument landing system) for automatic landing of commercial jets in case of bad-weather or whatever

[Gr8_Hindustani]

I can see where you are coming from. But who said that the fuel directly goes to the engine? Can't they have a secondary storage? So they use the primary storage, which is usually the wings and store the fuel from the Tanker into the secondary tanker....just an idea

[echarcha]

I simply ask the stewardess to re-fill my beverage cup :D :clap:

I think that is "in-flight" refuelling :p

[Zorro]

I dont know how it works exactly, but while I was in Wichita, KS, very close to some airforce base, I have seen a lot of these refuellings. Naya naya tha tab lagta tha ye kyun ek aircraft doosre pe chadh raha hai :D, but it was fascinating to watch. It did not seem that the velocity of the aircraft was very high. Come to think of it, they hardly seemed to move.

Recently I saw on television (TLC) how a B2 bomber was being refueled in mid air. The refueling aircraft had a long protruding pipe that it brings in position with the inlet on top of the B2. The nozzle latches to the inlet and the two fly together (like a lovebug :D) while the B2 is being fueled and then the fueling aircraft detaches and peels off.

I think refueling was done to B2s during the afghan bombings from NATO bases in europe. I suppose, it cannot carry enough fuel to hit targets in afghanistan and return to US.

http://www2.acc.af.mil/gallery//videos.shtml

[echarcha]

was on emovie starring Kurt Russel and Steven Seagal (in a very short role) where they have shown a refuelling jet servicing a jumbo jet. They also showed how marines were transferred to the jumbo jet.

[GpeL]

Current day tankers are fitted with a boom instead of the hose. This works like an extendable prod behind the tanker. It can extend/retract just similar to how a transistor radio's antenna works. First the aircraft requesting fuel informs the tanker of its intensions. The boom operator then guides the fighter aircraft into position by way of radio communication and gestures (middle finger for screw up). The fighter slows to about 10Kts above the speed of the tanker and comes in for its rendezvous. He aligns the plane carefully to the prod and also he has to stay clear of the wake turbulence of the tanker in front (wake is generated from the wing tips). Slowly the boom operator keeps the pilot of both the planes in sync. Once the fighter gets hooked up to the cone in the boom, the boom operator releases the fuel.Meanwhile the fighter pilot slows his speed to match the speed of the tanker. The boom can refuel the little aircraft at about 1000lbs per minute. Once the fueling is complete, the boom is retracted and the fighter drops in altitude and goes on his way. The speed at which they travel while refuelling increases as the fuel gets into the fighter to keep the fighter from stalling due to the increase in weight as the fuel fills in. The manuer is tricky and the flight controls are handled very "softly" to avoid over correction while the fighter is trying to hook up to the boom. In modern versions there are (I have not seen it but I have been told) switches to put the flight controls in a refuelling mode so that overcorrections are avoided.

I will see if I get more info I will chipkao it here.

[vyomkeshsaxena]

Originally posted by Gr8_Hindustani
I can see where you are coming from. But who said that the fuel directly goes to the engine? Can't they have a secondary storage? So they use the primary storage, which is usually the wings and store the fuel from the Tanker into the secondary tanker....just an idea

abe chamanchindi..hum itni to aukad rakhte hain ki tumhe koi bhi defence system ki maa-behan kar ke samjha sakte hain...samjhe!!
my point is that if there is a error in refuelling procedure in a single-engined plane..than chances of survival r less..bcoz in twin-engined planes u can shut-off one engine n continue...and there r secondary storages in an aircraft but exercise ur grey cells....u r going on a long mission n u need to refuel ur main tanks (on wings) n not some secondary storage tanks (i dunno where they r situated..but i knoe abt. drop tanks ;) ) ...and also big aircrafts like tanker aircrafts leave behind small airpockets (produced by wings n jet exhaust) and if a aircraft behind is caught it becomes very difficult for pilot to gain control over plane..and here we see..a aircraft in 'mating' mode with a big aircraft.. so to speak once my friendz brother (IAF pilot) told that its a very very complicated procedure...so i just wanted to knoe what actually it looks like..:D

[vyomkeshsaxena]

Originally posted by echarcha
was on emovie starring Kurt Russel and Steven Seagal (in a very short role) where they have shown a refuelling jet servicing a jumbo jet. They also showed how marines were transferred to the jumbo jet.

cha pai..aapne air-force one aur executive decision movie ka soup bana diya hain...in reality only one 747-400 in present world has in-flight refuelling ability n thats the air-force one...aur aapne yashin us movie mein dekha ;) and on contrary of what u saw in executive decision was that a F117 was hooked to a 747 from cargo bay..with pressure regularised n marines n team from NEST (nuclear emergency search team) boarded that plane...to disarm a nuke ...typical hollywood drama :down: i ken even tell u the name of the airlies..it was 'OCEANIC' ..meri one of the fav. thi..bahut baar dekha..:D

[aryaputra]

bomkeshji,


kabhi cycle per double savaari kee hain?

remember how the pillion rider has to run and sit on the cycle while it is in motion, while taking care not to throw if off the balance?

same situation hain....albeit with better technology....

[nydood]

Originally posted by aryaputra
same situation hain....albeit with better technology....
and a shitload more at risk

[aryaputra]

Originally posted by nydood

and a shitload more at risk

in money terms, YES.

But it terms of human life, i think the bicycle was at more risk....two people on the same bicycle...losing balance and getting under the wheels of an oncoming bus.....too risky.....

[GpeL]

LMAO.. Bicycle more risk than mid air refueling.. :D :D

[aryaputra]

oooops...ur ass is falling off...laughing.....

:D

[vyomkeshsaxena]

kya yaar thread ko derail karte ho ;)

gpel pai..i mean to say when u start refuelling, the aircraft becomes heavy n there is a possiblity that it gets hooked out of the tankers hose ( for the time being i will call hose..boom sounds like an explosion :D ) .. so there is lots more involved than simply hook the plan n match the velocity of tanker, isnt it??

[aryaputra]

just thought of another real life example....one which u can try....


try having intercourse while u and ur gf/wife are running on the treadmill or open ground, if u are brave enough :D.

[Kya Bidu]

There are basically 2 systems adopted for in-flight refuelling worldwide.

1. The drogue method.
2. The probe method.

drogue
In this method a hose is released from the refuellers belly/wings which has a conical hose at the end of it. An aircraft which needs to be refuelled using this method would have a probe somewhere in the front of the aircraft. This connects to the drogue at the end of the refuelling hose and fuel is then pumped into the aircrafts tanks. eg: USN, RAF, FAF and our own planned IL78's

probe
The refueller extends a pipe from its belly. The aircraft to be refulled flies straight and level below and behind the refueller. Which then guides the probe to a re-fuelling port in the top of the aircraft, and then refuels the plane.

Drogue method
http://www.skyhawk.org/2C/rnzscope.jpg

This gives you a pretty good idea of the drogue method - 2 F4 refuelling from both wings
http://home.planet.nl/~hiemi003/History/Images/ZA149_phantoms.jpg

Another one showing only the tanking staions on a VC10 of the RAF

http://home.planet.nl/~hiemi003/History/Images/RAF_za142_01.jpg

Probe method
http://wizard.ucr.edu/~bkaplan/alcf/images/kc135f16.gif

http://wizard.ucr.edu/~bkaplan/alcf/images/kc10.jpg

http://wizard.ucr.edu/~bkaplan/alcf/images/kc10nc17.jpg


Hope that helped.