UK blasts Agni test-launch

[echarcha]

Look who is talking now!

These folks ruled us for more than 150 years. Now they still want to lecture us!

They cannot handle their own problems like the shoe-bomber John Reid who had a British passport. :rolleyes:

These folks dont know how it is to face daily non-sense from terrorism.

I think USA knows it now and so they have not said anything, yet the Brits in their usual - we-are-so-righteous-and-brilliant fashion have again criticised India!

Read on:

LONDON: Britain has criticised India's decision to test-launch Agni, the nuclear-capable ballistic missile, saying it "sends the wrong signals within the region and beyond".

LONDON: Britain has criticised India's decision to test-launch Agni, the nuclear-capable ballistic missile, saying it "sends the wrong signals within the region and beyond".

Within hours of Friday morning's Agni test, British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said he "regretted the decision, particularly in the light of current regional tension".

Urging "restraint in developing possible nuclear weapon delivery systems", Straw said this would be "in the long-term interest of India and the region". Singling out India to "take steps set out in United Nations Security Council Resolution 1172" Straw said India and Pakistan should seek "diplomatic means to resolve their disputes".

Britain’s sharp response came as sections of the international strategic community expressed concern at India’s "signal of preparedness" to Pakistan.

Professor Gyn Prins, an acknowledged specialist in security issues and nuclear non-proliferation, told this paper the Agni test-launch appeared to follow inexorably from the now "publicly-declared information, namely the revelation that Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal is probably more deliverable than India’s".

Prins said he and others, including notably the British Foreign Office, quite legitimately feared that the Agni test-launch was India’s way of remedying this.

Western defence pundits said they disputed the Indian external affairs ministry spokesman’s insistence that the test launch "timing was determined solely by technical factors…has no political significance or relationship to any event".

Said Prins, "I can think of no engineering reasons and no reason for India to do this but to send a message to Pakistan and the world".

British diplomats said the British reaction was particularly sharp because it had been barely a fortnight since the Indian army chief said India was ready for war.

They said India’s aggressiveness risked conferring ‘victim-status’ on Pakistan. "Continuing tension over Kashmir increases the risk of cascading reaction in the region," they said.

However, security specialists acknowledged that Britain’s rebuke to India might be read as hypocritical, because the British appeared to want India to exercise restraint while they kept firm hold of their own delivery system.

http://www.timesofindia.com/Articleshow.asp?art_id=986911339

[siffar]

poor chaps....
they just can't see INDIA progress :mad:
but fortunatly for us they can't do anything to stop us except putting minor obstacles in our way to successfully build GSLV.

[Fei]

do you think this was a right time for testing the Agni (700km) missiles?

and about britain..its a very chootiya country..because of them we are having all these problems today

[vivek_lahoti]

i think britan should mind its own businesss.
they have done their bit in making things really bad on this planet.
on an average militants kill 5 people in kashmir.
if you ever notice BBC, even if one person gets inured in england due to some stupidity there, they will repeat telecast that news 5 times atleast.
but when 18 people were killed by militants in kashmir day before, they didnt report that news.
insted they directly reported pakistan govts reaction to it, saying it was indias fault that they couldnt control these militants.

BTW, agni 3 had a range of 3500kms not 700 kms
700 kms is prithvi i guess.
and they can increase range of agni further to around 5000kms or so. (remember, china is also a large country)
infact, its like, sitting in india, we can hit targets in afghanistan if we want.

i think the only solution to this kashmir thing is get into PoK or even proper pakistan and personally kill all those militants israel style (i am very impressed with israel)

[Fei]

i didn't say agni III they launched a variant of Agni and its range is 700km

Originally posted by vivek_lahoti
BTW, agni 3 had a range of 3500kms not 700 kms
700 kms is prithvi i guess.
and they can increase range of agni further to around 5000kms or so. (remember, china is also a large country)
infact, its like, sitting in india, we can hit targets in afghanistan if we want.


Is India readying for a war with China ?

[Fei]

no why would they?

[Ghasiyara]

Originally posted by eNRI


Is India readying for a war with China ?

Why shouldn't we?..... something wrong in being prepared?

[vivek_lahoti]

india isint going to fight a war with china.
atleast, it doesnt seem like that so far.
but by acquiring technology we are preparing ourselves for future. i mean, india's missile technology isint specific to any country (china or pakistan). tomorrow we want to use it elsewhere.
or may be tomorrow if some other nation wants our missiles, we could sell them. (like india bought sukhois from russia and some missiles from israel).
missiles could be a good export commodity ;)

Originally posted by Ghasiyara


Why shouldn't we?..... something wrong in being prepared?

what is the cost of being prepared? Is India not sending a message to china that it could one day attack china ? Is that in the right direction for Sino-Indian friendship ?

It is stupid for India to think of a war with China especially since China is not doing anything bad to India. At times like this when India needs more friends than enemies, India cannot afford to buy anymore rejection in the international community.

China is already supplying arms to Pak which not only brings it dollars but keeps regional balance and undermines India's strength. Don't you think China is being smart?

VL, India could sell missiles only if there is a buyer of its products. Is there one ?

[siffar]

Originally posted by eNRI
VL, India could sell missiles only if there is a buyer of its products. Is there one ?
i bet there will be, (when its really ready for export).

there is already demand and market for Indian Space Vehicles for satellites. :up:

Jai Jawaan, Jai Kisaan, Jai Vigyan :up: :up:

[videsee]

Originally posted by eNRI


what is the cost of being prepared? Is India not sending a message to china that it could one day attack china ? Is that in the right direction for Sino-Indian friendship ?

It is stupid for India to think of a war with China especially since China is not doing anything bad to India. At times like this when India needs more friends than enemies, India cannot afford to buy anymore rejection in the international community.

China is already supplying arms to Pak which not only brings it dollars but keeps regional balance and undermines India's strength. Don't you think China is being smart?

VL, India could sell missiles only if there is a buyer of its products. Is there one ?


typical sandaasiya logic!!

Only amrika can sell technology?




Moron sandaasiyaa

[viking]

A signal to China was essential at this point of time. China should now come to think of India as a power far more lethal to it than it was in 1962.

I welcome this Agni missile test, except that it should have been test fired on Karachi with complete Nuclear payload.

[vivek_lahoti]

OOOOOh so china is doing a very excellent job by selling its weapons to pakistan.
i see.
thanx for enlightening me.

BTW, did u know, india had a war with china also once upon a time.
so, if i am right, you cant tell who is going to be your friend and who is going to be your enemy 50 years from now.

its always good to be prepared for the worst.
america has a missile technology to launch a missile attack on any country in the world. so, i guess we have atleast that much right so as to have missiles to target our potential threats.
as for the peace in the region, we dont want peace. we want solution. A PERMANANT SOLUTION.
we want to see an end to this terrorism and dispute in our lifetimes.

as for the buyers of indian technology, galat fehmi mein mat reh,
there are lots of buyers.
stop giving your stupid pro american logics. start sounding like sence for a change.

and as for the cost or the investment, its less than what we would have spent if we had to buy them from else where.

as for sino-indian relations, they are stronger today than they were before 9/11. you dont worry.

[kameena]

Originally posted by eNRI


what is the cost of being prepared? Is India not sending a message to china that it could one day attack china ? Is that in the right direction for Sino-Indian friendship ?

It is stupid for India to think of a war with China especially since China is not doing anything bad to India. At times like this when India needs more friends than enemies, India cannot afford to buy anymore rejection in the international community.

China is already supplying arms to Pak which not only brings it dollars but keeps regional balance and undermines India's strength. Don't you think China is being smart?

VL, India could sell missiles only if there is a buyer of its products. Is there one ?

I word buddy, Deterrance. Chinks will now think twice before attacking Indians. Indian and chinks came very close to war in 86.

The same deterrance which is now protecting Puki land against the Indian wrath. All said and done Indians do fear Puki Nukes.

[echarcha]

Remember folks that before you lambast China in this, the recent visit by the Chinese premier Mr. Rongzhi (i forget exact name) is a sign of changing times.

China has experimented with two policy system for Mainland CHina and Hong Kong. They found that free trade and export zones work very well and in today's times, being an economic super pwoer is more important than just annexing land.

So China wishes to eatblish itself well into the Indian market. On my last visit to India, I noticed that even battery cells used for torches, radios etc were coming to India from China. These cells were cheaper than their Indian counterparts.

Today China does not want war with India but wants a firm entry into the vast Indian market for upscale and common goods.

Infact I think China will want to enter Pakistan markets too. I dont think China is stupid or guided by extremist Islamist philospohies like our pesky neighbours on the western borders. I think China wants peace in the region to establish its market presence in the Asian sub-continent.

India is developing missile technology as any country needs to do to establish a serious presence in the international community of powerful nations. I dont think India is making missiles to attack China but more to tell Pakistan, Afghanistan and any other stupid-istan that dont mess with India.

So its no point blaming China. A few years ago, I woulkd agree that China might have had evil designs on India. But today their total focus is on economy.

Infact the Chinese premier said that during his visit he would discuss and guide Indian manufacturers about setting up export zones the way China has.

So people, all this British noise about Agni is for Britian to get some attention in the media. USA is much more intelligent and so did not object. Infact they would like India to be a deterrent in the Asian subcontinet which is recently seeing a rise of religious extremism.

Anyway.... its good that India can build its own defense equipment and is less reliant on other nations. Any great nation needs to develop its own technology for defense or medicine or industry.

Originally posted by videsee



typical sandaasiya logic!!

Only amrika can sell technology?




Moron sandaasiyaa

This guy has nothing to contribute to the discussion except do dirty talking. You can call me whatever you want to and that does not change what I am.

On other threads when someone talks dirty to him he says "... refuse to mingle with gutter elements". With a language like this what are you videsee - worse than gutter elements.

Now be a cry baby and report this post to your buddy "echarcha".

Originally posted by vivek_lahoti
so, if i am right, you cant tell who is going to be your friend and who is going to be your enemy 50 years from now.

as for sino-indian relations, they are stronger today than they were before 9/11. you dont worry.

what is your point here? are india's relations with china improving or are you saying that china could be an enemy ? or are you saying that in spite of improving relations with china, we ought to be ready for a war with them?

Look at Japan and the US relations with Japan today. The Japs who were so hated 50 years back are partners today.

kameena, even china is a nuclear power and so is india. The two countries border each other and both are well populated. So, no matter where you hit, the loss of human life will be high. The missiles that india develops for Pak could be used for china and so I see little point in making a 3500km or a 5000km range missile. Instead, of readying itself for a war with China, India should attempt to strenghten its relations with China. My point is that war is not always the best solution in solving a dispute, it should be the last resort.

Today, China is actually exploiting the Indo-Pak tensions by selling arms to Pak. It is keeping India in control via Pak and getting paid for it. How smart !!

Military prepardness is expensive and a burden on the tax payers (now, dont say no one pays tax in india as how else does the govt get money to run itself). Money spent on arms and weapons could be better spent on education and programs such as clean drinking water, healthcare, dams and roads etc..

Originally posted by echarcha
Remember folks that before you lambast China in this, the recent visit by the Chinese premier Mr. Rongzhi (i forget exact name) is a sign of changing times.


... but they want to protect the sovereignity of their land. They don't want any outside intervention on their land and how they rule their country and are not afraid of even the US.

Yes, the chinese administration knows how its products can dominate the world market. They have changed their philosophy to what I would call "red capitalism". So, while the govt. is communist, a good number of businesses are privately held.

Just like you said, battery cells in India are imported from China and not because they are some state-of-art products, but because they are cheap. So, while India is busy building weapons, China is busy building their country and footholds in foreign markets.

What's next ? Economic slavery

[kameena]

Originally posted by eNRI

kameena, even china is a nuclear power and so is india. The two countries border each other and both are well populated. So, no matter where you hit, the loss of human life will be high. The missiles that india develops for Pak could be used for china and so I see little point in making a 3500km or a 5000km range missile. Instead, of readying itself for a war with China, India should attempt to strenghten its relations with China. My point is that war is not always the best solution in solving a dispute, it should be the last resort.



The problem eNRI is that though Indians have been a Nuclear power since 1974, they hardly had any delivery capability to strike at Chinese economic or strategic assets. All the Chinese assets are at least 3000 Km from India. So a minimal deterrance like the one Chinese maintain against th US is fine, we need not enter into a arms race like the Soviets and Americans did.

Chinese with a arsenel of about 20 ICBMS have the same deterrance cabability against US with more than 50 times that number. I think Indians can do the same vis a vis China without entering into a costly race or war with them.

[aryaputra]

Originally posted by eNRI


what is the cost of being prepared? Is India not sending a message to china that it could one day attack china ? Is that in the right direction for Sino-Indian friendship ?



Is China worth trusting?
Does/would any country in the world trust China?

Originally posted by aryaputra


Is China worth trusting?
Does/would any country in the world trust China?

Why can't China be trusted? And if China can't be trusted, can Nepal be trusted or Srilanka/Bangladesh be trusted ?

kameena, what assests are you talking about? Do you mean that there is no chinese population within 3000km of India's border ? or would loss of those lives will not be a loss for China ?

[kameena]

Originally posted by eNRI


kameena, what assests are you talking about? Do you mean that there is no chinese population within 3000km of India's border ? or would loss of those lives will not be a loss for China ?

By assets I mean the economic assets, like factories , roads etc etc, losing which can cause chinese lots of pain. The things which are currently under Indian strike range, are deserts of Tibet which chinese care a sh*t about.

Plus the biggest problem is that Chinese have territorial claims on India (they claim Arunachal pradesh, 3 pockets of territory in Garhwal, Himachal area) so having a deterrance capability is not a bad choice. We neglected defence after independence and paid the price in 62 war. I think we need not repeat the mistake twice.

How far are Beijing and Shanghai from India?

[kameena]

Originally posted by eNRI
How far are Beijing and Shanghai from India?

Shanghai is 4000+ km from India. Beijing is still farther. The only chinese province which borders India is Tibet. And what chinese feel about Tibet is a public knowledge.

How far into China does Tibet run ? Is it more or less than 3000 km?

[GpeL]

beijing about 2500 Miles.. shangai 3100 miles and peking 2900 Miles.. but I thought you had all this info on your fingertips. :confused:

[kameena]

Originally posted by eNRI
How far into China does Tibet run ? Is it more or less than 3000 km?

Depends on which place you are measuring from. At places it can be more than 3000 km at places it might not. Plus you can't launch your missile from the border. A little leverage has to be added from Indian border too. So it makes it well over 3000 KM.

[GpeL]

Distances I gave are from mumbai.

[kameena]

Originally posted by GpeL
beijing about 2500 Miles.. shangai 3100 miles and peking 2900 Miles.. but I thought you had all this info on your fingertips. :confused:

Yaar Pelu ek tho konfuson. I thought Beijing and Peking were same. Saala to 400 mile ka difference kahan se aa gaya.

shanghai is 3400km and beijing is 3250km approx

...and is there nothing in china southwest of beijing and shanghai that would be dear to chinese ?

[kameena]

Originally posted by eNRI
shanghai is 3400km and beijing is 3250km approx

...and is there nothing in china southwest of beijing and shanghai that would be dear to chinese ?

Kya maaloom. Isiliye to round off karke 5000 KM ka range nikaala hai. I think it should be enough to give Indians a deterrance capability against the chinks.

[dirty]

Now how far is Mumbai from New York ?

[CyberKhiladi]

Originally posted by eNRI
How far are Beijing and Shanghai from India?
from Delhi:
Beijing - 3728 km
Shanghai - 4245 km!.

Thats accurate! he he

[GpeL]

Originally posted by kameena


Yaar Pelu ek tho konfuson. I thought Beijing and Peking were same. Saala to 400 mile ka difference kahan se aa gaya.


Yaar pataa nahi.. that java script out on net gave me the numbers.. vo java script me kuch lafadaa hoga..

[dirty]

Originally posted by eNRI
shanghai is 3400km and beijing is 3250km approx

...and is there nothing in china southwest of beijing and shanghai that would be dear to chinese ?
There is a chinese restaurant owned by a gujju illegal immigrant !:D

[CyberKhiladi]

Originally posted by GpeL



Yaar pataa nahi.. that java script out on net gave me the numbers.. vo java script me kuch lafadaa hoga..

Acchaa?

Originally posted by kameena


Kya maaloom. Isiliye to round off karke 5000 KM ka range nikaala hai. I think it should be enough to give Indians a deterrance capability against the chinks.

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/tibetmap/TARbr.html

It doesn't look that tibet extends 2K miles into China from India border.

[nydood]

Gotta change my atlas. Its showing me the distance between New Delhi to Beijing is 4 inches and N. Delhi to Shanghai is 5 inches or so.

[echarcha]

with all our missile theories?

Lets move on..

[vivek_lahoti]

My friend videsse proposed the motion that eNRI’s logic is SANDASSIA and I second it.
Poor chap, has to explain everyone.

As for “Money spent on arms race etc…” I think I wouldn’t totally disagree. But if gotta be a powerful nation, you gotta spend on defense. Or, if say we start living in a perfect world like you are imagining, may be we don’t need any army either. Tomorrow you might come up with a logic that by keeping such a huge army india is trying to destabilize the peace in the region and no one but amrika has the right to have an army coz they are the messiahs of the world.
I mean, your world is soo pro American that I wont be surprised if tomorrow you start saying that no one but amerika has the right to develop its defense coz they have buyers for their technology and they are the ones who “save the world” always, be it OBL, be it militancy in Kashmir, be it Chinese incursion into Indian territory, whatever. When we (or for that matter, any other nation in the world, which is not amrika) need some sort of defense, all we gotta do is, join our hands and beg in frount of amrika ki “plzzz amrika bhaiyya, kuch karo, they are nuking us.”

As for china exploting indo-pak tensions, well we aren’t buying anything from china. So, if at all someone is getting exploted, its pak. India doesn’t do any tests to try and get better than pak. We are far too superior. Pak keeps buying weapons from china, and I think even that has come to an end coz with todays conditions, I think china would rather ally with india than pak. When the Chinese PM visited hyderabad he gave permission to infosys to open its office in beiging and shanghai right away.

The message is clear, china wants good economic ties with india and so does india. Don’t worry, we aren’t spoiling our relations with anyone.
As for they (Chinese) concentrating more on economic development rather than military, well so are we. We are concentrating quite a lot on our economic developments as well. Infrastructure in india has developed tremendously in the past couple of years, its just that the market is in a recession otherwise the time is best if you want to start an industry. Govt has left no stone unturned.
Infact, to come out of this recession, yeshvant singh even reduced the amount of money a bank should minimum possess in its deposits, so that banks start giving out more loans on consumer items and people buy more and thus we come out of a recession.
Don’t worry, we are not neglecting anything else just to be able to spend on arms. But to stay in times, we have to spend something on arms also, that’s what we are doing.

Originally posted by vivek_lahoti
My friend videsse proposed the motion that eNRI’s logic is SANDASSIA and I second it.
Poor chap, has to explain everyone.


stick to the topic of discussion dude.

[vivek_lahoti]

oops sorry!!!!
the discussion moved on so fast.
i mean i was still on the page no 2 when i had written this.
then i went offline for 2 hours.
when i came back, we are already on page three.
we are moving quite fast.
i gotta catch up.

Originally posted by vivek_lahoti
As for china exploting indo-pak tensions, well we aren’t buying anything from china. So, if at all someone is getting exploted, its pak. India doesn’t do any tests to try and get better than pak. We are far too superior. Pak keeps buying weapons from china, and I think even that has come to an end coz with todays conditions, I think china would rather ally with india than pak. When the Chinese PM visited hyderabad he gave permission to infosys to open its office in beiging and shanghai right away.


Infosys' opening an office in Shanghai will generate more employment for the Chinese and ofcourse another source of cheap labor for the Indian IT giant.

I agree that China is exploiting Pak but at the same time, it is keeping India in check by keeping the military balance in the region.

I don't think that China is a threat to India's soverignity or territorial integretity.

[kameena]

Originally posted by eNRI
I don't think that China is a threat to India's soverignity or territorial integretity.

What about chinese claims on 90 thousand Sq Km of Indian territory including Arunachal and Sikkim. Is that not a threat to India's territorial integrity?

Originally posted by kameena


What about chinese claims on 90 thousand Sq Km of Indian territory including Arunachal and Sikkim. Is that not a threat to India's territorial integrity?

But like you said in one of your earlier posts, that could be solved through a dialogue between the two countries.

Not all disputes have to be solved by a bullet.

[kameena]

Originally posted by eNRI


But like you said in one of your earlier posts, that could be solved through a dialogue between the two countries.

Not all disputes have to be solved by a bullet.

No doubt about that. But at the same time, dialogue can take place only between parties with similar strengths. Otherwise it would become bullying.

We need not go to war against China. We can solve all the problems thru dialogue, at the same time it is in our interest to have a deterrant strength against them.