India Can Now Kick Pakistan's Ass on the Stealth

[viking]

IAF may procure Russian Stealth bombers: Jane's Weekly


PTI [ WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 16, 2002 11:34:01 AM ]

LONDON: The Indian Air Force (IAF) is believed to be considering adding Stealth modifications to its MiG-21Bis fighters in order to upgrade them to MiG-21-93 standard, a leading defence weekly has said.

The recommendations in this regard were made by the Russian Aircraft Corporation after trials 18 months ago at Sokol aircraft plant in Nizhniy Novgorod in Russia, during which Russian Stealth capabilities were showcased to Indian defence ministry officials.

On May 29, 2000, a series of demonstration flights were conducted at the Sokol airfield - co-located with production facilities for MiG-29 ("Fulcrum") and MiG-31 ("Foxhound") fighter-interceptors.

The purpose of the trials was to demonstrate the effectiveness of radar-absorbent materials (RAM) and coatings developed at the Moscow Institute of Applied and Theoretical Electrodynamics, the Jane's Defence Weekly reported in its latest issue.

A total of 125 IAF MiG-21Bis are being upgraded under the MiG-21-93 programme, which is being carried out by Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) in co-operation with Sokol Nizhegorodsky Aviastroitelnyi Zavod AO (Sokol Nizhniy Novgorod Aircraft Manufacturing Plant JSC) under a $340 million contract of 1996.

The principal features are modernised avionics suite that includes the Phazotron Kopyo multi-mode radar and the ability to utilise advanced air-to-air and air-to-ground ordnance, the weekly said.

Items cleared by November 2000 under proof of compliance testing carried out by the Russian Air force included the Vympel R-77 medium-range active radar homing and R-73 short-range infra-red homing air-to-air missiles, as also the Zvezda-Strela Kh-25MP and anti-radiation missile and the TV-guided KAB-500Kr precision-guided munition.

The first two Russian-upgraded examples of the MiG-21-93 were delivered to India in late 2000, while the remaining 123 fighters will be upgraded at HAL's plant in Nasik utilising equipment sets supplied by Russia.

The first indigenously upgraded MiG-21-93 - known locally as the MiG-211, carried out a successful first flight at Ojhar airport, near Nasik, on August 31, 2000.

Russia is not alone in promoting stealth technology to the IAF. In 1996, the Composite Material Research Laboratory in Hyderabad claimed to have developed 'stealth' enhancements - most likely RAM tiles and surface wave-absorbent sprays - for IAF Jaguar strike aircraft, the report said.

The modifications were reportedly adopted on two Jaguar squadrons and were also being considered for the Mirage 2000, MiG-29 and the MiG-21-92.

Initial operational clearance for a 12-aircraft trials unit of MiG-21-93s is scheduled for the end of this year, with the programme currently running three years behind its original schedule.
http://www.timesofindia.com/Articleshow.asp?art_id=2063771771

[vyomkeshsaxena]

yeah...good advance but again not much to IAF since now-a-days air defence sytems also incorporates electronic systems that meaures heat signature released by jet engines for active homing of infra-red or heat seeking surface to air missiles or air to air missile...unless the entire air-frame is designed to suit for the purpose, as in F117, B2 bombers, we cant say our aircrafts r actually stealth ..but yeah good when comes to first-strike n dog-fighting..but needs a good command n control system for mission planning ..phalcon AWACS, that india is due to get from israel holds a promise...also development of BVR (beyond visual range) weaponary n procurrment from other nations also should be made fast..bcos stealth tech. without BVR's is good for nothing
;) ... also special radar systems n commn. systems have to be incorporated into aircrafts avionics so as to make them safe from anti-radiation missiles (both surface n air launched).. well dont tell me that the source can be switched-off when the missile is launched...now-a-days they incorporate infra-red sensors too.. (mainly in air-launched versions) ;)

[viking]

Originally posted by vyomkeshsaxena
yeah...good advance but again not much to IAF since now-a-days air defence sytems also incorporates electronic systems that meaures heat signature released by jet engines for active homing of infra-red or heat seeking surface to air missiles or air to air missile...unless the entire air-frame is designed to suit for the purpose, as in F117, B2 bombers, we cant say our aircrafts r actually stealth ..but yeah good when comes to first-strike n dog-fighting..but needs a good command n control system for mission planning ..phalcon AWACS, that india is due to get from israel holds a promise...also development of BVR (beyond visual range) weaponary n procurrment from other nations also should be made fast..bcos stealth tech. without BVR's is good for nothing
;) ... also special radar systems n commn. systems have to be incorporated into aircrafts avionics so as to make them safe from anti-radiation missiles (both surface n air launched).. well dont tell me that the source can be switched-off when the missile is launched...now-a-days they incorporate infra-red sensors too.. (mainly in air-launched versions) ;)
:confused: Whoa!!! what was that all about?. Nice post buddy although could not make much outta it. I'll forward it to George!;):D

[BlrBoy]

talking about stealth.. i want to share a joke that goes around in HAL

LCA is such a good Stealth air craft, that not only it cannot be seen by radar, even Human cannot see it..

[BlrBoy]

Originally posted by viking

:confused: Whoa!!! what was that all about?. Nice post buddy although could not make much outta it. I'll forward it to George!;):D

Hey Viking you are such a shallow person dude.. such a well analysed reply by Vyomkeshsaxena and you did not get it.. Hmmmm. are u a reserved candidate...

Originally posted by vyomkeshsaxena
yeah...good advance but again not much to IAF since now-a-days air defence sytems also incorporates electronic systems that meaures heat signature released by jet engines for active homing of infra-red or heat seeking surface to air missiles or air to air missile...unless the entire air-frame is designed to suit for the purpose, as in F117, B2 bombers, we cant say our aircrafts r actually stealth ..but yeah good when comes to first-strike n dog-fighting..but needs a good command n control system for mission planning ..phalcon AWACS, that india is due to get from israel holds a promise...also development of BVR (beyond visual range) weaponary n procurrment from other nations also should be made fast..bcos stealth tech. without BVR's is good for nothing
;) ... also special radar systems n commn. systems have to be incorporated into aircrafts avionics so as to make them safe from anti-radiation missiles (both surface n air launched).. well dont tell me that the source can be switched-off when the missile is launched...now-a-days they incorporate infra-red sensors too.. (mainly in air-launched versions) ;)


sorry I am not upto date with India's defense news

Originally posted by BlrBoy
talking about stealth.. i want to share a joke that goes around in HAL

LCA is such a good Stealth air craft, that not only it cannot be seen by radar, even Human cannot see it..

BTW, does russian steath even fly ? I mean it is russina technology afterall :D

[vyomkeshsaxena]

Originally posted by eNRI


BTW, does russian steath even fly ? I mean it is russina technology afterall :D

eNRI, russian aerospace industry is one of the best in the world...if USSR had not been disintegrated..than sure it would have been world's no. 1.. look at the variety of fighter aircrafts, transport aircrafts,long range bombers, torpedos atack n civilian choppers, all type of missiles n space launch vehicles...they r just fabulous...USA just makes very less variety of planes n boeing indutry, lockheed-martin cannot in anyway compete, in technology, with sukhoi, MIG-MAPO companies etc etc..the onle plane, i think , america can boast abt. r F117 N B2 bombers..thats it..the jet engines used by sukhoi industries r fartech. advanced than american counterpart..just take eg of SU-27 engines..they r darling..variable control thrust output...man just look at them and u will start to admire russian tech..u know when su-30MKI version will be rolled out..it will be the best fighter aircraft in the world atleast upto 2012,and even american know that...MIG 33 (or 37), the russian version of stealth plane to counter US F-22, MIG-29K- carrier based aircraft..much-much powerpacked than F-18 HORNETS used by US navy, SU-33 flanker- with front sweering delta wings..man theyr just fabulous and cheap too...;)
the S-400 anti ballistic missile system made by russia is inarguabely the best in the world, even SA-7 &8 r the best surface-air missiles, they were the first one to make successful air-air missiles that could turn 180 degrees n hit the enemy aircraft following behind our fighter planes
its just that due to monetary probs. russia cannot mass produce them n needs other countries help to complete some programmes...but still russian tech. is simply best :up:

[BlrBoy]

Originally posted by vyomkeshsaxena


eNRI, russian aerospace industry is one of the best in the world...if USSR had not been disintegrated..than sure it would have been world's no. 1.. look at the variety of fighter aircrafts, transport aircrafts,long range bombers, torpedos atack n civilian choppers, all type of missiles n space launch vehicles...they r just fabulous...USA just makes very less variety of planes n boeing indutry, lockheed-martin cannot in anyway compete, in technology, with sukhoi, MIG-MAPO companies etc etc..the onle plane, i think , america can boast abt. r F117 N B2 bombers..thats it..the jet engines used by sukhoi industries r fartech. advanced than american counterpart..just take eg of SU-27 engines..they r darling..variable control thrust output...man just look at them and u will start to admire russian tech..u know when su-30MKI version will be rolled out..it will be the best fighter aircraft in the world atleast upto 2012,and even american know that...MIG 33 (or 37), the russian version of stealth plane to counter US F-22, MIG-29K- carrier based aircraft..much-much powerpacked than F-18 HORNETS used by US navy, SU-33 flanker- with front sweering delta wings..man theyr just fabulous and cheap too...;)
the S-400 anti ballistic missile system made by russia is inarguabely the best in the world, even SA-7 &8 r the best surface-air missiles, they were the first one to make successful air-air missiles that could turn 180 degrees n hit the enemy aircraft following behind our fighter planes
its just that due to monetary probs. russia cannot mass produce them n needs other countries help to complete some programmes...but still russian tech. is simply best :up:

Could not agree more with you. I hope eNRI understands all that u have written out here.

[vyomkeshsaxena]

Originally posted by BlrBoy


Could not agree more with you.

;) :D ..the post was for eNRI....btw r u from banglore??

[viking]

Originally posted by BlrBoy


Hey Viking you are such a shallow person dude.. such a well analysed reply by Vyomkeshsaxena and you did not get it.. Hmmmm. are u a reserved candidate...
Like I said earlier the shallowness is relative I just cannot help you if your dip stick is kinda short:D.

And hell no why is your analysis about a person as a matter of fact about everything always so wrong!. I'm not a reserved class candidate nad better still I'm not a Muslim!:eek:

Dip Stick - Measuring stick used to measure the volume/depth of liquid in a container

[vyomkeshsaxena]

cool it viking..naya banda hain..i too was shocked when he replied in that way...btw kya samajh mein nahin aaya..may be i can eloborate more, if u want;)

[viking]

Originally posted by vyomkeshsaxena
cool it viking..naya banda hain..i too was shocked when he replied in that way...btw kya samajh mein nahin aaya..may be i can eloborate more, if u want;)
No yaar actually I dont know the nitty gritties of weaponry. Anyways I liked your insight!:)

[padhu]

Here is the first view of the Indi/Russia 5th generation fighter program (The LFI) . Notice how the aircrafts so closely resemble the F-22.

http://www.aeronautics.ru/nws001/lfi002.jpg

http://www.aeronautics.ru/nws001/lfi001.jpg

Originally posted by vyomkeshsaxena


eNRI, russian aerospace industry is one of the best in the world...if USSR had not been disintegrated..than sure it would have been world's no. 1.. look at the variety of fighter aircrafts, transport aircrafts,long range bombers, torpedos atack n civilian choppers, all type of missiles n space launch vehicles...they r just fabulous...USA just makes very less variety of planes n boeing indutry, lockheed-martin cannot in anyway compete, in technology, with sukhoi, MIG-MAPO companies etc etc..the onle plane, i think , america can boast abt. r F117 N B2 bombers..thats it..the jet engines used by sukhoi industries r fartech. advanced than american counterpart..just take eg of SU-27 engines..they r darling..variable control thrust output...man just look at them and u will start to admire russian tech..u know when su-30MKI version will be rolled out..it will be the best fighter aircraft in the world atleast upto 2012,and even american know that...MIG 33 (or 37), the russian version of stealth plane to counter US F-22, MIG-29K- carrier based aircraft..much-much powerpacked than F-18 HORNETS used by US navy, SU-33 flanker- with front sweering delta wings..man theyr just fabulous and cheap too...;)
the S-400 anti ballistic missile system made by russia is inarguabely the best in the world, even SA-7 &8 r the best surface-air missiles, they were the first one to make successful air-air missiles that could turn 180 degrees n hit the enemy aircraft following behind our fighter planes
its just that due to monetary probs. russia cannot mass produce them n needs other countries help to complete some programmes...but still russian tech. is simply best :up:

It may be cheap but not the best. They don't have an aircraft like our B2. MIGs are aircrafts of the yesterday. Russian technology was good but they haven't kept up with USA's. Now they are way, way behind.

[Dhurandhar Bhat]

ha ha ha......what a titilating title.....stealth ass who kicks...!!!

......Jab bharat mein bachhon ko neend nahi aati to maata kahteen hai so jao bachon....Viking the ass who kicks aa jayega...
...to bache dhenchu dhenchu kah ke so jatein hein.

[padhu]

eNRI, do you know why the F-22 project of the US has been cut back. Becuase the stealth technology that the US was so proud of is now antique. The russians, chinese, India have radars who can penetrate this facade.

Read this article which appeared in Janes Defence in September 2000. Open your eyes and kiss your US Stealth good bye.




A great deal of people e-mailed me in the past week asking if I know what is going on with the F-22 project. If you take a look at the several articles below you will see that the Raptor project is in serious trouble. There are many opinions as to why the Congress decided to suspend the funding for the F-22 and raise the question of reducing the production order for the type. What is missing, however, is a clear reason for suspending the funding for the F-22 project. What I would like to know is why and why now? I am absolutely certain that there is more to this than can be found in the press. The timing is interesting: the Congress is just starting to review the results of the war in Yugoslavia and the performance of American aircraft and pilots in particular. We already know that there are many problems, one of which being inability of NATO aircraft to successfully engage mobile targets and suppress air defenses.

Another problem is the one F-117A shot down by an SA-6 and one more damaged by an SA-3, another one crash-landed somewhere with no further details available (see Air Forces Monthly, July and August issues). Russian military analysts agree that every combat mission of another American stealth bomber - the B-2 - required up to 50 support and escort aircraft. This is because B-2s proved vulnerable to modified long-wave radars deployed by the Serbs (presumably a Soviet-made mobile P-12 radar), passive EM detection systems like Czech-made Tamara and Russian-made Vega, and much-improved long-range TV tracking systems installed on Serbian SA-6 and SA-3 SAM systems. And now, Jane's and Stratfor suggest that Russians might have supplied Yugoslavia with about a dozen of S-300PM SAM systems and as many as 50 Tunguska integrated mobile air defense systems.

Several Russian military and technical publications mentioned that B-2s were escorted by F-16CGs and F-15Cs when in Yugoslav air space. One may say that it is absurd to send a stealth bomber escorted by non-stealth fighters. Not at all. As some of you may know, long-wave radars work the best when they achieve half-wave resonance effect. This effect is achieved when the wavelength of the radar is twice the length of the target along the direction of wave propagation. This relationship does not have to be exact, only very approximate. Let's suppose the targets are F-117A, F-22, and B-2. Despite many differences and size and geometry of these aircraft they have similar lengths: 20 m, 19 m, and 21 m, respectively. A radar operating at 7.5 MHz should be able to get the half-wave resonance effect on all three aircraft. In order to guide a SAM, the target's location must be determined with about 30-50-meter accuracy - not very possible at this time for a single long-wave radar. Such precision would require multiple receivers and emitters. However, detecting a target with lower accuracy still allows for a successful intercept: either by vectoring a fighter aircraft for an intercept or by providing approximate targeting information to other radars and passive detection systems. If a fighter aircraft was directed by a long-wave radar to intercept a stealth bomber, fighter escort would be a good idea.

Many people know that I am not a big fan of the F-22: Americans are putting all their eggs in one stealth basket, which may be quickly rendered ineffective by the rapidly-advancing radar technology. The F-22's small internal weapon bays limits its ground strike capability as well as its ability to carry long-range air-to-air missiles, if the US ever decides to develop any. Russian's don't have any money but they do have Su-35, Su-37, S-37, MFI. They also have new advanced long-range AAMs and much-improved air-to-air radars. Imagine for a moment that the F-22 program is axed - what do Americans have? There are no comprehensive upgrades for the F-15 or the F-14. Even a moderate cut in the order number for the F-22s would leave the US with insufficient force of incredibly expensive fighter aircraft. Today American government is deciding what to do with all the budget surplus, but tomorrow there may be another economic depression and the USAF will end up with a token force of super hi-tech fighters but no real fighter force.

Adding to the problem is the war in Yugoslavia and a large number of American combat aircraft in need of repairs and with drastically-shortened service lives. Restoring USAF's combat potential will take time and a great deal of money. What the US needs is an affordable air-superiority fighter, not the F-22, full of technologies that were never proven or even tried in combat. Look at the Vietnam war, look at the Desert Storm, look at the war in Yugoslavia - the vast majority of air-to-air kills were scored within visual range. Already China and India have more advanced fighter aircraft in service than the US or even Russia. Americans simply don't have enough time to drop the F-22 project and start something new. The F-22 must be put in production on full scale. This choice was made years ago and there is nothing we can do about it now.

Originally posted by padhu
eNRI, do you know why the F-22 project of the US has been cut back. Becuase the stealth technology that the US was so proud of is now antique. The russians, chinese, India have radars who can penetrate this facade.


Does that prove that russians have a better technology than the US ?

Read my post again and don't digress from the point by cutting and pasting an article you found on the net. It is not relevant to the arguement that I amde about the russian technology.

Technologies come and they fade with time. I don't know about Russia/China but please tell me what radar does India have that can detect a B2. Is it home made or bought from Russia? Or is it just technology and yet to be converted to a product? Anyone can make tall claims but do they have a proof ?

[Dhurandhar Bhat]

...more imp. what has India got to defend against Hatf series....
fok the B52's..........
about 150 Hatfs are deployed..targetting virtually all of India....

...Atalia Dhoti sambalke...

[padhu]

eNRI, open your eyes and read the article. India has Tunguska, India has Vega, India has SA-3, SA-6, SA-9 and SA-17 in inventory.

Soon we will have Phalcon which also detects infra red heat signatures of very small appertures.

Do you know that the SU-30 MKI that india has bought from Russia are the most advanced fighters in the world. The components that INdia is using in the MKI is far advanced than even the ones being used by russia itself.

According to you, anything other than US is shit, but my dear friend, Weapon and Weapon system are only new as the technology itself. Today if the US has something you think the other countries will not come up with something to counteract it....grow up dude.

[viking]

Originally posted by Dhurandhar Bhat
ha ha ha......what a titilating title.....stealth ass who kicks...!!!

......Jab bharat mein bachhon ko neend nahi aati to maata kahteen hai so jao bachon....Viking the ass who kicks aa jayega...
...to bache dhenchu dhenchu kah ke so jatein hein.
Aur us se bhi kaam na chala to wo Big-G ke naam se darate hai unhe!:D

[kameena]

Padhu bhai, somewhat off the topic, but do Indians have the capability to launch pre-emptive strikes and put entire Paki missile force out of action. Something like what Israelis did in 67.

[Dhurandhar Bhat]

good post above paadoo,
..russians have some good arsenal up their sleeves.
I wonder all the UFO's ,aliens..are nothing but russian advanced aircrafts...fooling around with Uncle sam.....remeber they made hovercraft like naval ships when US were using Yatches.

:D :D :D

[Dhurandhar Bhat]

Originally posted by viking

Aur us se bhi kaam na chala to wo Big-G ke naam se darate hai unhe!:D

.....actually one think I like about donkeys......confidence.They stand at a place hours together..with confidence.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by padhu
eNRI, open your eyes and read the article. India has Tunguska, India has Vega, India has SA-3, SA-6, SA-9 and SA-17 in inventory.

Soon we will have Phalcon which also detects infra red heat signatures of very small appertures.

Do you know that the SU-30 MKI that india has bought from Russia are the most advanced fighters in the world. The components that INdia is using in the MKI is far advanced than even the ones being used by russia itself.

According to you, anything other than US is shit, but my dear friend, Weapon and Weapon system are only new as the technology itself. Today if the US has something you think the other countries will not come up with something to counteract it....grow up dude.

I think it is you who needs to grow up.

Are we talking about aircrafts or radar? please lookup the subject heading again. Don't DERAIL the thread, just to showoff.

If I am not mistaken, long wave radars would be low frequency and so the range would not be very high. Plus, these crafts are capable of flying low altitude which reduces the range of radars further (earth's curvature). So, even if they detect an aircraft but have no raection time, it is useless.

Get the picture.

[GpeL]

are are are.. eNRI.. maan gaye yaar.. USA is supreme.. chal ab shaant ho jaa.. su series from russia sucks big time.. it actually is an imaginary aircraft.. all the airforce guys have to do is spread their arms like a wing and run.. making aircraft sounds.. so it really does not exist.. I am amazed at your technical knowledge of long range radars/short range radars/phased array radars/bombers/fighters etc etc etc.. man you are gonna get a place in history next to that einstien guy.. you know who I am talking about?

I thought so...

Originally posted by GpeL
are are are.. eNRI.. maan gaye yaar.. USA is supreme.. chal ab shaant ho jaa.. su series from russia sucks big time.. it actually is an imaginary aircraft.. all the airforce guys have to do is spread their arms like a wing and run.. making aircraft sounds.. so it really does not exist.. I am amazed at your technical knowledge of long range radars/short range radars/phased array radars/bombers/fighters etc etc etc.. man you are gonna get a place in history next to that einstien guy.. you know who I am talking about?

I thought so...

.... now suddenly you come up with this rhetoric to end a discussion. :down:

Do you think it is polite? Please learn some etiquettes. Don't interrupt with stupidity. If you have nothing to contribute, stay out. :down:

[Dhurandhar Bhat]

I have to agry with my earstwhile Indian ppl here....reaction time..
the greates strength of US is striking from anywhere anytime or rather anytime from anywhere.......Its virtually all over the place...the other thing is US will never fight SU..its state of the art aircrafts are meant for ....almost helpless IRaq,afganistaan...Vietnaam.....Somalia ..who knows.??

[BlrBoy]

I went to a Air Show in Cleveland and had a chance to speak to F15 pilot and asked if they are using fly-by-light technology in the US fighters. He said its because of the politics they are not using this technology.

for those who do not know what is fly-by-light tech, all the wires which are used to control the planes replaced by a single Optic fiber, by using optic fiber, the plane become lighter and the chance of failing is less.

Well US "may be" advanced in TEchnology... but there are still the politicans who dont allow the technology to be implemented..

[kameena]

Originally posted by eNRI


Does that prove that russians have a better technology than the US ?

Read my post again and don't digress from the point by cutting and pasting an article you found on the net. It is not relevant to the arguement that I amde about the russian technology.

Technologies come and they fade with time. I don't know about Russia/China but please tell me what radar does India have that can detect a B2. Is it home made or bought from Russia? Or is it just technology and yet to be converted to a product? Anyone can make tall claims but do they have a proof ?

eNRI again the comparison is like Apples and Oranges. Americans came up with an excellent radar evading technology the stealth. The russians responded not by developing their own stealth, but by developing better Radars.

Agreed that americans have better stealth technology, but what is the use if better radars come up which detect these so called undetectable aircrafts? Radar detectable B-2s will turn into sitting ducks or rather flying ducks.

You asked whether Indians have anything which can detect B-2s and Padhu pointed out certain Russian made stuff which is there in Indian Inventory.

Originally posted by BlrBoy
I went to a Air Show in Cleveland and had a chance to speak to F15 pilot and asked if they are using fly-by-light technology in the US fighters. He said its because of the politics they are not using this technology.

for those who do not know what is fly-by-light tech, all the wires which are used to control the planes replaced by a single Optic fiber, by using optic fiber, the plane become lighter and the chance of failing is less.

Well US "may be" advanced in TEchnology... but there are still the politicans who dont allow the technology to be implemented..

"for political reasons" does not mean that "polititians are responsible" :smash:

I am sure some people know better english than I do and will explain you more should you ask.

[GpeL]

Originally posted by eNRI


.... now suddenly you come up with this rhetoric to end a discussion. :down:

Do you think it is polite? Please learn some etiquettes. Don't interrupt with stupidity. If you have nothing to contribute, stay out. :down:


Abe DK bose :D :D.. tere ko mai taarif kar rahaa hoon aur tu mere ko dhamkaa rahaa hai.. oy.. bacha samajh kar kandhe par utaayaa to kaan me moottaa hai (nana patekar style in krantiveer).. I think what I wrote was full of etiquettes and politeness.. prove me otherwise if you can!!

Originally posted by GpeL



Abe DK bose :D :D.. tere ko mai taarif kar rahaa hoon aur tu mere ko dhamkaa rahaa hai.. oy.. bacha samajh kar kandhe par utaayaa to kaan me moottaa hai (nana patekar style in krantiveer).. I think what I wrote was full of etiquettes and politeness.. prove me otherwise if you can!!


Butting into a discussion with nothing but a rhetoric is impolite and rude. But, if you probably won't understand that.:smash:

[GpeL]

Abe.. I have every right to butt in where ever I want.. aise hi thode na 5000+ posts jamaa kiyaa hoon.. afterall kadi mahnat ki hai.. tere ko acha nahi lagtaa to tu mat pad.. I am the most polite and most well mannered person.. prove me wrong if you can :D

[i4u2end]

GPeL Bhi karo aur dard bhi nahin ho.
Vaha kya tarika hai ustad.
Maan gaye.

[vyomkeshsaxena]

i donno who quoted this but i'em bit reserved on the fact that india or russia have developed or procurred SAM's more than S8's..s8 is the best russia has (not s17, 16 or so)..now this is my information..(may be limited) ..and regarding the shooting of F117 from an S6 or something..well i read that it was a failure of onboard comp...u know na its fly-by-wire tech. will chipkofy the article supporting it after i search it on net!!
for eNRI..buddy..fly-by-wire is a tech that most of the aircrafts now boast of..andnot limited to US only..mirage 2000 is completely FBW...
gtg..will mail u after 7th in detail on this thread..soooory

[padhu]

SA-17 GRIZZLY is a new mobile SAM system to augment and eventually replace the SA-11 GADFLY. The new system uses the same launch vehicle chassis, and overall has a similar configuration to the SA-11 GADFLY. The SNOW DRIFT surveillance radar is also carried on the modified GM-569 tracked vehicle chassis. Russia is upgrading the Belorussian Buk (NATO: SA-11 Gadfly) air defence missile system at the Uliyanovsk Mechanical Plant. The new Buk-M1-2 (SA-17 Grizzly) system has increased fire power, and guarantees hits against six targets flying simultaneously from different directions and at different altitudes. The Yezh naval version [SA-N-12] of the SA-17 is visually Identical to SA-N-7.

btw, russia has more then S8 in air defence missiles. Here is the list.



SA-8 GECKO
SA-9 GASKIN
SA-10 GRUMBLE
SA-11 GADFLY
SA-12 GLADIATOR
SA-13 GOPHER
SA-14 GREMLIN
SA-15 GAUNTLET
SA-16 GIMLET
SA-17 GRIZZLY
SA-18 GROUSE
SA-19 GRISOM
SA-20 Triumf
SA-21 Mysk

the SA-20 is new generation of air defense and theater anti-missile weapon being developed jointly by Russia, China and a part by India. The system is supposed to be operational by 2003. No word so far on where the work has headed.

Yes, most new aircrafts use Fly by Light technologies. The LCA is supposed to use fly by light too.

As for the kill of the F-117 the US has been good at hidinh the facts about their weapon systems. If they publicaly state that other radar systems can penetrate the stealth, all their funding will stop for such aircraft. Its putting two and two together for anyone to figure out why the F-22 production was brought down and the JSF production has been put on hold.

[videsee]

Originally posted by eNRI




Do you think it is polite? Please learn some etiquettes.


er anaadi......plural of etiquette is etiquette. No such word as 'etiquettes'!:D :smash: ;)

Originally posted by vyomkeshsaxena
for eNRI..buddy..fly-by-wire is a tech that most of the aircrafts now boast of..andnot limited to US only..mirage 2000 is completely FBW...


What is this supposed to mean? Did I say that FBW technology is known only to US? or that no one else uses it ?

duhhhh..........

[dhurandhar]

I read several posts mentioning Phalcon....most of Israel's hardware comes from US. And US is not dumb to transfer "poison" of which it has no antidote. Same goes with Russia.

As for India, buying the "latest" does give it an edge over Pak and China, but it still remains and will continue to be lagging in so far it relies on foreign suppliers and/or collaborators.

As for MiG's & Sukhoi they have some kind of myth built around them, primarily from Indian side. I don't remember any incidence mentioned in any magazine/journal, wherein a MiG/Sukhoi shot down a F-15, F-16 or F-18. However, reverse is quite common knowledge.

[padhu]

dhuru, US has always been secretive about the loss of its aircraft and personel. US will never openly say that our aircraft was shot down. As for the shotting down of Migs and Sukhoi, it is possible to shoot them down, because most of the arab and thrid world countries use the older versions of the russian aircrafts and neither have much training on them too. The max shoot down was of the russian migs was over Iraq, but what can you expect when someone is outnumbered 3 to 1. Have you heard of a US cobat aircraft try to take out a russian mig or an indian mig. You will get your answer. I have been to airshows and tech groups, the new generation sukhois can make manoevours which no US aircraft is capable off. So what does it prove, are the russian aircrafts inferior or the pilots in them are????


BTW...Phalcon is a US/Isreal joint production weapon with Isreal being the major rights holder unlike the arrow missile defence system where US has a major stake.

[vyomkeshsaxena]

Originally posted by eNRI


It may be cheap but not the best. They don't have an aircraft like our B2. MIGs are aircrafts of the yesterday. Russian technology was good but they haven't kept up with USA's. Now they are way, way behind.

i still remember while watching "air force one" movie..when us president is informed that 4-5 enemy planes r coming for interception n US president now in sweat saying " DID U SAY MIG's :D

dhurru posted

As for MiG's & Sukhoi they have some kind of myth built around them, primarily from Indian side. I don't remember any incidence mentioned in any magazine/journal, wherein a MiG/Sukhoi shot down a F-15, F-16 or F-18. However, reverse is quite common knowledge.

america targets only those countries which r weak...well only instance wherein i can quote that MIG-29's were hit was 'gulf war'..well needless to say having a supercomputer has nothing to do when ultimately u've to play solitaire with that
in short..training counts a lot..as someone quoted america never had a taste of real air battle (with russia ..india..china etc)...rem'ber how pukis superfighters went down by simple gnats in 1971...:smash:


PADHU
i dont think so india has procurred vega..tungsuka systems..these deals r still in pipeline..even we r having field testing for SMERCH rocket launcher..ken u provide a link for it and yeah also for SA17 system that u told india now possessed

[padhu]

Check this link out about induction of Tunguska in the Indian Army

Tunguska (http://www.army-technology.com/projects/tunguska/index.html)

In-fact Tunguska has been inducted in the Indian army for over 3 years now. I saw it a couple of years back on the Republic Day parade.

Originally posted by vyomkeshsaxena


i still remember while watching "air force one" movie..when us president is informed that 4-5 enemy planes r coming for interception n US president now in sweat saying " DID U SAY MIG's :D


Air Force One, that Harrison Ford movie - the one in which the president was moved from one plane to another in mid-air :cool:

Dude, enjoy these hollywood movies and don't search for facts in them;)

[padhu]

eNRI...ok vyomkeshsaxena gave a bad example, but ask any US Air Force F-15 or F-16 pilot if he would like to go for a dog fight against an SU-27 or a Mig 29. You will get your answer. The russian thrust vectoring engines are far more superior in technology than the ge's in the F22. Its not rocket science why the budget for the F-22 was cut, but in defence circles it is considered the bird that was never visible.

Dont cry america america america all that time dude. Sometimes just plain except it that others in the world are not dumb either.

Originally posted by padhu
eNRI...ok vyomkeshsaxena gave a bad example, but ask any US Air Force F-15 or F-16 pilot if he would like to go for a dog fight against an SU-27 or a Mig 29. You will get your answer. The russian thrust vectoring engines are far more superior in technology than the ge's in the F22. Its not rocket science why the budget for the F-22 was cut, but in defence circles it is considered the bird that was never visible.

Dont cry america america america all that time dude. Sometimes just plain except it that others in the world are not dumb either.

padhu, your problem is that you listen too little and talk too much :down:

I was talking about the B2 and not F-15 or F-16. read again ...
It may be cheap but not the best. They don't have an aircraft like our B2. MIGs are aircrafts of the yesterday. Russian technology was good but they haven't kept up with USA's. Now they are way, way behind.

I don't think that the russian technology was ever better than the US. May be once upon a time, it was comparable, but today they are many years behind.

You have seen how US forces kicked ass in afghansitan where the soviets got theirs kicked in the 1980s. :D When USA was launching its assaults on Taliban, I was perhaps the only one here, who said that Soviets' failure in Afghanistan does not mean that the US will meet the same fate.

Dont cry Russia Russia Russia all that time dude. Sometimes just plain accept (not except) it that others in the world are not dumb either.

:smash:

[padhu]

Ok eNRI....

i accept US planes are copies of alien aircrafts. They are years superior to any other aircraft in the world. I accept my fault and promise not to talk too much. ok

[nydood]

Originally posted by eNRI
You have seen how US forces kicked ass in afghansitan where the soviets got theirs kicked in the 1980s.
Isnt it possible that it happened because USSR was trying to rule over Afghanistan and the US just wanted to bomb the country?

[echarcha]

USSR was fighting the Afghanis and the US was supporting the Mujahadeen covertly..

So basically it was the then superpower USSR versus the current superpower USA.

This time there was no USSR or anyone against the US.

[aryaputra]

The US always looks for the best value, even in technology.

Whereas the USSR used to look for the BEST product, no matter what the cost.

eg.
1. USSR aircraft are called gas guzzlers in comparision to US planes.
2. USSR aircraft are more solidly built with no consideration for milage. What mattered was that the aircraft should keep flying even when hit. Not so for the US. They built lighter aircraft that can go longer ranges.

3. The SU-30 or 27 can land on its belly without any undercarriage and be ready for takeoff within half an hour. No US aircraft can do that.


That is where the difference lies.

Originally posted by echarcha
USSR was fighting the Afghanis and the US was supporting the Mujahadeen covertly..

So basically it was the then superpower USSR versus the current superpower USA.

This time there was no USSR or anyone against the US.

yes, that's an argument :up:

But, was a covert support from US enough to keep a superpower in check? If so, the US military supermacy is clearly visible. I think the russians always played the number game - more troops, more tanks more weapons, while the americans believe in quality and tactical warfare :up:

[padhu]

by eNRI

But, was a covert support from US enough to keep a superpower in check? If so, the US military supermacy is clearly visible. I think the russians always played the number game - more troops, more tanks more weapons, while the americans believe in quality and tactical warfare


eNRI have you got your wires mixed up. Infact its the other way round. US always belived in quantity, for that was the only way they could win over USSR. Looks like your cold war history is down the hill. Even now, the US believes in this theory. Any particular reason for that, or its just that the US feels their equipment is not too good enough and that is why in one month there were 5 mishaps with US weapon technologies in afghanistan.

BTW what is your defination of tactical warfare. Bombing innocent civilians in afghanistan from afar. 10 countries punding on a country called Iraq. You call that tactical. Tactical is when youa re one on one with equals, otherwise its called bullying.

[dhurandhar]

As I understand it, TACTICAL means busting somebody's balls while keeping yours intact.

Originally posted by padhu



eNRI have you got your wires mixed up. Infact its the other way round. US always belived in quantity, for that was the only way they could win over USSR. Looks like your cold war history is down the hill. Even now, the US believes in this theory. Any particular reason for that, or its just that the US feels their equipment is not too good enough and that is why in one month there were 5 mishaps with US weapon technologies in afghanistan.

BTW what is your defination of tactical warfare. Bombing innocent civilians in afghanistan from afar. 10 countries punding on a country called Iraq. You call that tactical. Tactical is when youa re one on one with equals, otherwise its called bullying.

1. I think it is you who is all confused (your ever moronic posts leave little doubt). USSR had a much larger military, tanks etc when compared to the US. I don't have the time to search and post the numbers, but you can find it, do post them here. You have no idea of the respective numbers in cold war and just doing empty talk.

2. Accidents happen and the US casuaties in afghanistan are far less that what the soviets had there and they came out without success. You perhaps have no idea of how badly russians had their back kicked in the 80s.

Bombing innocent civilians in afghainstan? So, you also think that US attacked civilians in afghanistan? shows how little you know about the current war in afghanistan. US has neven knowingly attacked civilians, ofcourse some civilians did get killed but civilians are killed in every war. Iraq was the same case.

Somehow, your loyalty seems to be more with terrorist like OBL and agressors like Saddam. Clearly you have it all screwed up. :D

LOL loser, you haven't got an argument and your knowledge of defense is superficial :down:

[padhu]

eNRI you madorchod bhadva.


How dare you question my loyalty you prick. How dare you say i have loyalty for OBL. You bastard do you even know what terrorism is other than sitting in the comfort of your house and reading the news. I lost two friends in front of me and had my leg in a cast for more than a month becuase of glass and shrapnel due to a terrorist attack. I have more reason to hate OBL and his type than you. So dont ever, ever say that again. This time you were online therefore yo are spared. say it in front of me and you wont even need to collect the small peices of your falling teeth you bastard. REMEMBER THAT you SOB namak haram.

[Netra]

Wow Padhu, this is the first time I'm seeing you this angry!

[nydood]

Originally posted by eNRI
US has neven knowingly attacked civilians
No. Ofcourse not... The US never has done anything like that. They thought that the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were military bases and all residents were soldiers.

[Netra]

Originally posted by nydood

No. Ofcourse not... The US never has done anything like that. They thought that the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were military bases and all residents were soldiers.

HA HA HA. Good one.

Originally posted by padhu
eNRI you madorchod bhadva.


How dare you question my loyalty you prick. How dare you say i have loyalty for OBL. You bastard do you even know what terrorism is other than sitting in the comfort of your house and reading the news. I lost two friends in front of me and had my leg in a cast for more than a month becuase of glass and shrapnel due to a terrorist attack. I have more reason to hate OBL and his type than you. So dont ever, ever say that again. This time you were online therefore yo are spared. say it in front of me and you wont even need to collect the small peices of your falling teeth you bastard. REMEMBER THAT you SOB namak haram.

Bad language is not necessary in a discussion unless that is your only defense. The language you use speaks more about you than it does about you. :down:

Watch what you said about the US "Bombing innocent civilians in afghanistan from afar". It clearly shows that you are hurt at the US attacks on afghanistan.... and now you quickly make up all these stories to defend your stand.

Take a hike dude and don't show off your true colors. There is no need for use of profane language. Talk sense or keep your mouth shut :smash:

Originally posted by nydood

No. Ofcourse not... The US never has done anything like that. They thought that the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were military bases and all residents were soldiers.

That was in 1945 during WWII... and we are talking about the war in afghanistan (2001-02). Don't change the context of my statement.

[nydood]

What you said that the US has never knowingly attacked civilians. So I was just giving you an example of the biggest civilian massacre in history.

Originally posted by nydood
What you said that the US has never knowingly attacked civilians. So I was just giving you an example of the biggest civilian massacre in history.

I agree.... but again, the actions of 1945 are not relevant in today's context. ...... or so do I think

So, please allow me to restate, during the attacks on afghanistan, US has not knowingly attacked the civilians, although some civilians did get killed.

In afghanistan, the civilians celebrated after Kabul fell to northern alliance forces. US has helped Northern Allaince free the people of afghanistan from the brutal captivity of taliban and their style of ruling - no TV, no music, no education for women, no liberty for women etc. Even Karzai has acknowledged that some civilian casualties are understandable in an attack of this magnitude.

[nydood]

I am not denying that. To make an omlette you do have to break a few eggs.

[nydood]

Originally posted by eNRI
But, was a covert support from US enough to keep a superpower in check? If so, the US military supermacy is clearly visible. I think the russians always played the number game - more troops, more tanks more weapons, while the americans believe in quality and tactical warfare :up:
I dont think this statement is true. The reason why USSR lost was because it sent in forces to occupy Afghanistan. And the Afghans are extremely good in Guerilla warfare in their own territory. In the case of the US, it was a totally different scene. They were intent on just bombing and destroying the whole place. I have no doubts that if the US was bent on occupying the country and had sent in troops, they would have had massive losses. A very good example of that would be the Vietnam war. They were saved only because of the Northern Alliance.

[aryaputra]

Originally posted by aryaputra
The US always looks for the best value, even in technology.

Whereas the USSR used to look for the BEST product, no matter what the cost.

eg.
1. USSR aircraft are called gas guzzlers in comparision to US planes.
2. USSR aircraft are more solidly built with no consideration for milage. What mattered was that the aircraft should keep flying even when hit. Not so for the US. They built lighter aircraft that can go longer ranges.

3. The SU-30 or 27 can land on its belly without any undercarriage and be ready for takeoff within half an hour. No US aircraft can do that.


That is where the difference lies.

What does everyone here have to say about this?

Originally posted by nydood
I dont think this statement is true. The reason why USSR lost was because it sent in forces to occupy Afghanistan. And the Afghans are extremely good in Guerilla warfare in their own territory. In the case of the US, it was a totally different scene. They were intent on just bombing and destroying the whole place. I have no doubts that if the US was bent on occupying the country and had sent in troops, they would have had massive losses. A very good example of that would be the Vietnam war. They were saved only because of the Northern Alliance.

Right on the money dude. That's what I call tactical. Learn from others' mistakes and don't make the same mistake that the russians did.

USA used its fire power to destroy their infrastructure (whatever taliban had) and is now making cautious moves into the enemy territory. No wonder there are more US casualties now then they were in air-attacks.

[nydood]

I was actually surprised when there were US casualties when they were bombing the whole place. Ofcourse the Afghani weapons were of a substandard levels and the US aircraft are one of the best in the world.

[nydood]

Arya, could you send me the links of Sukhois comparisions with the F-18 or any other aircraft. I tried to find them but could not. If you have any info do let me know.

[padhu]

Here is the link

Sukhoi Specs (http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/su37/index.html)

FA-18 Specs (http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/fa18/index.html)

[aryaputra]

Originally posted by nydood
Arya, could you send me the links of Sukhois comparisions with the F-18 or any other aircraft. I tried to find them but could not. If you have any info do let me know.

I actually saw a documentary which showed what I claimed.
Simply Amazing.
A sukhoi landing on the runaway with no undercarriage......
Those freaking planes don't even care if there are birds in and around the runaway....they just make mincemeat out of those birds.....
Can any US airplane do that?

[nydood]

Originally posted by padhu
Here is the link

Sukhoi Specs (http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/su37/index.html)

FA-18 Specs (http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/fa18/index.html)
Thanks Padhu..... any idea where I could find comparisions of these two aircraft as well?

[padhu]

Take this link

here you will get all your answers.

Military Aircraft Discussion Board (http://users3.cgiforme.com/javad/cfmboard.html)

[padhu]

Originally posted by eNRI

Bad language is not necessary in a discussion unless that is your only defense. The language you use speaks more about you than it does about you.

Watch what you said about the US "Bombing innocent civilians in afghanistan from afar". It clearly shows that you are hurt at the US attacks on afghanistan.... and now you quickly make up all these stories to defend your stand.

Take a hike dude and don't show off your true colors. There is no need for use of profane language. Talk sense or keep your mouth shut


You talk to assholes in the language they understand and abuses is the only language you understand you piece of shit. Damn you for making me use profane language in public but what the hell, its better than shoving up a tomahawk up your arse.

You struck a discordial note dickhead and now you will reap all that you sow.

Originally posted by padhu



You talk to assholes in the language they understand and abuses is the only language you understand you piece of shit. Damn you for making me use profane language in public but what the hell, its better than shoving up a tomahawk up your arse.

You struck a discordial note dickhead and now you will reap all that you sow.

just because I don't agree with you on a certain opinion, makes me one who understands nothing but bad language??? what a screwed logic you have :confused:

.... and since I am the one not using bad language makes you one who understands only polite words :D

you may call me "piece of shit", "dickhead" whatever, but your losing your temper and using bad language has only shown the real you. It will do more harm to your image, but I will not get into using profanity just because you stooped too low.

This time you were online therefore yo are spared. say it in front of me and you wont even need to collect the small peices of your falling teeth you bastard. REMEMBER THAT you SOB namak haram.

LOL loser, the joke is on you :D

[nydood]

Read an aarticle that Korea is tilting towards French Dassault Aviation's Rafale as part of their new procurement as they prefer it to the US aircraft. And the US is playing dirty to get the deal.

http://www.atimes.com/koreas/Da09Dg01.html

Originally posted by nydood
Read an aarticle that Korea is tilting towards French Dassault Aviation's Rafale as part of their new procurement as they prefer it to the US aircraft. And the US is playing dirty to get the deal.

http://www.atimes.com/koreas/Da09Dg01.html

I think the US government is doing their job, protecting the interest of its corporations that employ its people. Don't you think that this act of lobbying speaks highly of them ?

[nydood]

Not really. Boeing lost its contract with the US Govt because the Lockheed Martin fighter aircraft was better. So why push aircraft which even the Us wont buy to different countries. Now if a country is buying an aircraft, it is ofcourse paying for it. Should there be any strong arm tactics?
Imagine this..... If you want to buy a car and a car company strong arms you into buying a substandard car, would you think highly of the company which is twisting your arm into buying that car?

Originally posted by nydood
Not really. Boeing lost its contract with the US Govt because the Lockheed Martin fighter aircraft was better. So why push aircraft which even the Us wont buy to different countries. Now if a country is buying an aircraft, it is ofcourse paying for it. Should there be any strong arm tactics?
Imagine this..... If you want to buy a car and a car company strong arms you into buying a substandard car, would you think highly of the company which is twisting your arm into buying that car?

But, a car dealer has to sell the car and so employ sales pressure.

I am not sure if that analogy quite fits here. We have spent billions on building South Korea and so they ought to treat us as preferred partners. Strong arm tactics or just lobbying - it is for S Korea to decide where to spend their money and if not spending it with a US firm affects its ties with the USA.

Its a give and take - nothing is free in this material world.

[nydood]

But the billions rebuilding South Korea would have been part of a loan package. And I dont think that South Korea should be obligated to buy US aircraft if it doesnt suit its needs.

[padhu]

eNRI my abuses to you were not becuase i refused to acknowldge your point of view but because you associated me with the likes of OBL. Thats what pissed me off becuase you stepped on a topic which is very sore with me.

As for agreeing with you on your stand, i dont have to. I do my own research and i get paid to do my research. So if you say my knowledge is superficial then all i can say i sfine if thats what you think but thats not what the people i work for think.

[padhu]

BTW, which aircraft are you talking about. Lockheed Martin did not win the F-22 contract becuase there aircraft was better as such. Boeing was wayback in timelines and the cost of production with boeing was expensive. The reason being Boeing was for a long time working on the JSF. And rest assured they will get the contract. Its a question of two different aircraft with two different design options, but both of them wont get huge orders, becuase the technology is now a little too old and radars have started picking up minature heat desipations from such aircraft. This is where Plasma Stealth technology comes in the work. Both US and Russia are in this game who comes out with this technology faster. Its like the Air Borne Laser or the Missile defence. All a game becuase the technology still lacks the results needed for a war like scenario.

[GpeL]

Inspired by Madhushala thread.. here is my take on this thread..

Ofcourse posted with extreme humility.. :D :D

BigG bhesh badal phadu ban kar aayaa
eNRI na puche kuch.. jhat jhuk gayaa saala
Khub maari Enri Ki, phadu ne kar di us ki hala
phir saath chal pade peene hum do nukkad ki madhushala

(hum=me+phadu).

Keep it up phadu bhai.. good work.. eNRI.. lage rah yaar tu bhi.. bahut aanaand arelaa hai re bawaa.

Originally posted by padhu
eNRI my abuses to you were not becuase i refused to acknowldge your point of view but because you associated me with the likes of OBL. Thats what pissed me off becuase you stepped on a topic which is very sore with me.

As for agreeing with you on your stand, i dont have to. I do my own research and i get paid to do my research. So if you say my knowledge is superficial then all i can say i sfine if thats what you think but thats not what the people i work for think.

read yourself and see whose side you are on

BTW what is your defination of tactical warfare. Bombing innocent civilians in afghanistan from afar. 10 countries punding on a country called Iraq. You call that tactical. Tactical is when youa re one on one with equals, otherwise its called bullying.

bombing innocent civilians in afghanistan ???

... otherwise it is called bullying

Don't go around defending the use of bad language and placing the blame on me for inciting you. You yourself stepped on the land mine and I just reminded you after you had hurt yourself.

Anyways, I suppose you have shown your true colors - not just bad language but ...
>>>This time you were online therefore yo are spared. say it in front of me and you wont even need to collect the small peices of your falling teeth you bastard. REMEMBER THAT you SOB namak haram. <<<

keep talking non-sense, for that is all you got :p

Originally posted by GpeL
Inspired by Madhushala thread.. here is my take on this thread..

Ofcourse posted with extreme humility.. :D :D

BigG bhesh badal phadu ban kar aayaa
eNRI na puche kuch.. jhat jhuk gayaa saala
Khub maari Enri Ki, phadu ne kar di us ki hala
phir saath chal pade peene hum do nukkad ki madhushala

(hum=me+phadu).

Keep it up phadu bhai.. good work.. eNRI.. lage rah yaar tu bhi.. bahut aanaand arelaa hai re bawaa.

by losing his temper and use of bad words, padhu has only got his image screwed. padhu can go screw his computer, break it into pieces and then collect the pieces.

GpeL as usual is enjoying the scene. dude, I don't blame you.

[nydood]

eNRI, you are talking as if you never lost your temper or used bad words

[GpeL]

Originally posted by eNRI


by losing his temper and use of bad words, padhu has only got his image screwed

No eNri.. anyone abusing you actually goes up a couple of notches as far as "image" goes.. too bad Super Girl did not realize that and retired.. I think she actually went up atleast a 10 point upgrade with her image.. and I respected her that even she can give you a nice kick.

Your image on the other hand does suffer.. and I love watching that.

By the way.. how was my contribution to madhushala.. don't you thik HRB should include this stanza in his original composition!!

[aryaputra]

Padhu,

this eNRI has a problem.

anyone who looks at this Afghanistan war from the other side of the fence is declared by him as a patron of OBL.

remember my thread where I said that muslims from the middle east are treating OBL with the same respect as we treat Bhagat singh? I am not wrong. Even the US defence dept. acknowledges that fact. Only eNRI will not.
Can u imagine thousands of soldiers still fighting in the name of OBL. Do u think they would put up such a resistance if they were simple terrorists? No. They are fighting for a "cause started by OBL" that we are unable to comprehend. that is all.

u made the same mistake when u showed sympathy for the poor Afghanistan villagers who got killed.

[padhu]

eNRI... you dont care a damn about image while abusing dickheads like you. Spoilt my image you say??? Dickhead, you spoil your image in front of people who trust and admire. You dont spoil images with ragged mothballs like you. So dont worry about my image so much. I am not like SuperG who will walk out of echarcha in disgust overr your foked up remarks. You mess with us and you will get bazookas up your backside.......

Now go and bark on your next post you rabbid dog :D

[GpeL]

Originally posted by padhu
eNRI... you dont care a damn about image while abusing dickheads like you. Spoilt my image you say??? Dickhead, you spoil your image in front of people who trust and admire. You dont spoil images with ragged mothballs like you. So dont worry about my image so much. I am not like SuperG who will walk out of echarcha in disgust overr your foked up remarks. You mess with us and you will get bazookas up your backside.......

Now go and bark on your next post you rabbid dog :D

Super Girl.. take a clue from here and come back if you happen to see this. Enri is not worth so much that we all should lose you. We all miss you.. especially me.

[padhu]

eNRI if the US army is so great in tactics et all, why is it that they lost people on the ground in ground combat. Why are they fencing afghan soldiers in front. Its been 6 months and they still cant find even one of the top guys of Taliban or OBL's gang. That means they lack the same expertise that russians had in afghanistan. Well they funded OBL against Russia, and they created a monster which bit its own master. Not that i gloat about what happened, but US still plays this two timing games which will haunt us again in the next couple of years with some other country.

Originally posted by padhu
eNRI... you dont care a damn about image while abusing dickheads like you. Spoilt my image you say??? Dickhead, you spoil your image in front of people who trust and admire. You dont spoil images with ragged mothballs like you. So dont worry about my image so much. I am not like SuperG who will walk out of echarcha in disgust overr your foked up remarks. You mess with us and you will get bazookas up your backside.......

Now go and bark on your next post you rabbid dog :D

I am not the only one reading your posts, everyone else on echarcha is. Looks like you don't trust or admire anyone of them.

keep talking dirty in the language you want to .... i see this all the time on echarcha... nothing new for me.

just shows how easily you get ticked off.... usually, short fuse comes with a dead brain and here we have an example in you

:D :D :D :D :D :D

[nydood]

Does that mean that you have/had a dead brain too eNRI? :D :D

[padhu]

The others who are reading this thread already know me very well and know you very well too. Unfortunately for you, they already know that you are brain dead. As for what you call "Dirty Language", go check your english. Thats is what is called oxy moron. The correct word in the dictionary is foul language or abuse language. But what can we expect from you for you are an Ox and a Moron who even after listening to 50 abuses is shameless enough to come day in and day out here to get his ass whiped. Do you like somebody dominating you and whipping your butt everyday????

Originally posted by padhu
The others who are reading this thread already know me very well and know you very well too. Unfortunately for you, they already know that you are brain dead. As for what you call "Dirty Language", go check your english. Thats is what is called oxy moron. The correct word in the dictionary is foul language or abuse language. But what can we expect from you for you are an Ox and a Moron who even after listening to 50 abuses is shameless enough to come day in and day out here to get his ass whiped. Do you like somebody dominating you and whipping your butt everyday????

when without arguement, you get technical - at least better than being profane :p That's a welcome change :D

I stand corrected - you have used foul language, however, when I use the phrase "dirty language" I intend to mean "foul or abusive language".

Hope that would put the record straight for you.:D

Originally posted by padhu
.....who will walk out of echarcha in disgust overr your foked up remarks. You mess with us and you will get bazookas up your backside.......

Now go and bark on your next post you rabbid dog :D

ek baar to bhaag gayaa thaa "religion bashing" kaa arguement dekar... phir echarcha ne manaaya afterall moderator hai naa.


moderator hokar bhee bhaasha pur control naheen hai :down: :down: :down:

[padhu]

The mongrel has come again to bark.

I stand corrected - you have used foul language, however, when I use the phrase "dirty language" I intend to mean "foul or abusive language".

Oh...so now you mean something but you write something else. Does that not just prove my point that you are brain dead. Your hands and your head have no connection. Guess you have shit for brains that is why what you post does not make sense to you too.


BTW , i did not go for religion bashing. Go check your threads. And even if i went, i remember what some people told me that time. They said that there will be *** suckers like eNRI on echarcha but you dont have to go away because of dogs like him. If the dog acts smart, give it back to him.