Reforms in the Reservations policy

[smellyfinger]

Guys, whether we agree or disagree about the existence of reservations, let us face it. They are a reality today. But, in a lot of instances, these policies are being abused and are ineffective. If these are not fixed soon, they will become meaningless, and we will have a new set of victims to compensate. I think reform is needed as to the parameters of these policies and have put down some thoughts here.

I started a new thread because most other threads on this topic argue whether there shud be reservations or not. For the purposes of this discussion, do not argue whether they should be there, but how we can make them more meaningful.

Here we go ..

1. There should be a finite end date. Say reservations for a particular program will end by year 2020 or something like that. All reservation programs should have an expiry date.

2. Economic factors need to be taken into consideration. I know a guy in my college whose father was a multi crorepati, but was able to get admission because he was a BC. (his HSC percentage was about 12% less than what would have been required in the open category).

3. Based on the end date, the percentages need to be phased down, too.

4. Develop criteria for identification of target groups. Revisit these criteria every 5-10 years to see if some group can now be pulled back into general population.

5. Have standardized tests (like an IQ test, similar to SAT) to ensure that students making use of these reserved seats actually have a base intelligence to be competitive after they graduate.

6. If a person has used a reserved seat for education, he/she is not eligible for reservation again (for jobs, promotion etc..). This would ensure that no one constantly abuses the system.

7. Set up scholarship funds funded by the people who have benefited from reservations (I am not saying make it mandatory). This would build up a pool of money for future generations.


Any comments ??

[echarcha]

http://www.echarcha.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=119
http://www.echarcha.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=59
http://www.echarcha.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=108

[smellyfinger]

echarcha,

Like I said in my post, those threads argue whether there should be reservations or not. I am trying to concentrate on making it more meaningful. For the purposes of this discussion, let us assume that the reservations are here to stay for a while at least.

[echarcha]

Okay you can continue with this independent thread.

[smellyfinger]

Rakhwala you are overflowing with the milk of human cynicism. Though I cannot argue with what you have said, I sitll think there should be an effort made to do something. Doing away with reservations completely is the biggest pipe dream of all. It has to be phased out. And made to reach the right people while there.

I do believe in the "Teach a man to fish .." theory. If reservation can help a man to fish, then he can eat forever. But, what we dont want is for the reservation itself to be the fish, and people eat it every day for the rest of their lives. You get one chance. After that, you are on your own.

WHY RESERVATIONS FOR DEPRIVED CASTES?

- Justice Mr O Chinnappa Reddy*



I do not know what I am expecting to say or what is appropriate to say on an occasion like this when a book is released: am I expected to introduce the author and say nothing about the book, pretending not to have read it, or am I expected to introduce the book and speak about its contents? I think I will say a few words about both the subject of Reservations which is the theme of the book, and which appears to have become literally a ‘burning’ topic in some parts of the country. Dr. Parmaji is Professor of Education at Kakatiya University, Warangal in my home state of Andhra Pradesh. My acquaintanceship with him is only through the little volume that has just been released. The book reveals the man. It is interesting, refreshing and exciting, but what is more important, it is an unprejudiced empirical and analytical study which attempts to explode or, at any rate, expose certain myths assiduously spread and exaggerated by anti - Reservationists. Dr. Paramji has posed several Questions. You will find these Questions on the back cover of the book -



What is Caste? How did the Caste - Groups get hierarchically stratified historically? Do all Castes have the same access to education and to good education? Is there any relationship between the caste levels and the levels of culture reflecting in the performance of their younger ones in schools and colleges? If the academic performance is related to caste levels, and if students from lower sections with lower academic merit get admitted in higher educational institutions including professional colleges because of Reservations, how do they progress academically vis-à-vis their compatriots from higher castes who get admitted because of merit? Do the differences found initially between the Caste-groups widen over the years during their study, remain at the same level, or narrow down? Do the students from higher castes totally remain academically invincible through out their careers? Given a better milieu, can the students from lower castes reverse the process of cultural deprivation in any measure?



Is the performance of the lower caste-groups judged without caste-groups judged without Caste-bias? What is the comparative impact on merit of Reservations in Government-run-educational institutions and private institutions who receive donations for admissions?



These several questions raised have been tried to be answered by Dr Paramji, not rashly and emotionally but credibly and statistically, with facts and figures. He has, I think, succeeded in exposing the myth implicit in the merit versus Reservation controversy.



In our country, the economic, social and political problems have been aggravated, complicated and pitilessly tyrannized by the ubiquitous caste system, a unique and devastating system of gradation and degradation which has divided the entire Indian, particularly the Hindu Society, horizontally into such distinct layers as to the destructive of mobility, a system which has penetrated and corrupted the mind and soul of every Indian citizen. It is a notorious fact that social hierarchy and economic position exhibit an u disputable mutuality. The lower the Caste, the meaner its occupational tasks, the poorer its members and vice-versa. Caste and economic situation, reflecting each other as they do are the ‘Deus ex-Machina’ of the social status occupied and the economic power wielded by an individual or class in rural society. Social status and economic power are so woven and fused into the caste system in Indian rural society that one may say, without hesitation, that if poverty be the cause, Caste is the primary index of social and economic backwardness so that such backwardness becomes readily identifiable with reference to the person’s caste. However, much we may like to wish it away, so sadly embedded and so primeval and present is caste in Indian Society that it has even cut across the barriers of Religion. The Caste - System has penetrated other Religions, even as it has penetrated those very sections of Hindu Society who once dissented against the practice of caste and founded dissentient sects. Today we even have Christian SC, Christian Nadars, Mujbi Sikhs, Pinjars etc etc.



Now, in rural society, the top crust consists of the superior castes, generally, the priestly, the land-lord and the merchant castes. The bottom strata consist of the ‘out-castes’ of Indian Society, namely the Scheduled Castes. In between the highest and lowest, there are large segments who because of the low gradation of the caste to which they belong in the social hierarchy are condemned to backwardness, social and educational backwardness which prevents them from competing on equal terms to catch up with the upper castes.



The social and economic disparities between the Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes and the other socially and educationally backward classes whom we may compendiously describe as the weaker sections of the people and the forward and upper castes are despairingly vast. If the Weaker Sections of the people are even to shuffle along the frontiers of competitive society, they have miles to go, and to make that journey they need aid; they need facility; they need launching; they need propulsion. The needs are in fact their demands. They are not mere matters of philanthropy. They ask for parity and not charity. The days of ‘Dronacharya’ and ‘Ekalavya’ are over. Several bridges have to be erected and crossed before they may cross the Rubicon and are able to participate as full citizens of the country and the world. Professional education and employment under the State are thought to be two such bridges. Hence the special provision for advancement and for Reservation under Arts 15(4) and 16(4) of the Constitution.



The traditional approach of the upper castes towards the question of Reservation for Scheduled Castes, etc has been an attitude of superiority, elitism and consequently ambivalence. An obligation to undo a wrong which had been perpetrated through the ages is described by their spokesmen as ‘ generosity and farsightedness that are rare among Nations.’ They forget the claim of the Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes and other backward classes to equality as matter Human and Constitutional Rights by submerging these Rights into what they describe as the ‘preferential principle’ and ‘protective or compensatory discrimination.’ This attitude which the French describe as ‘Lamentialite hierarchique’ should be abandoned if anyone wants to truly appreciate the problems involved in the claim of the Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes and other backward classes for their legitimate share of the benefits arising out of their belonging to humanity and to a country whose constitution preaches justice, social, economic and political and equality of status and opportunity for all.



A result of the elitist approach to the question of Reservation is the myth of the conflict between the meritorian principle and the compensatory principle. The real conflict is between those who are in, wanting to keep out those who are out. The disastrous consequences of the so-called merits principle to the vast majority of the under-nourished, poverty-stricken barely literate and vulnerable Weaker Sections of the people of our country are too obvious to be stated.



What is merit? Surely there can be no merit in a system which brings about such consequences. Is not a child of the Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes or other Backward Classes who has been brought up in an atmosphere of penury, illiteracy and anti-culture, who is looked down upon by tradition and society, who has no books, newspapers or magazines to read at home, no radio and TV to listen and watch, no private tuition, no one to help him with his home work and no one to advise him because his parents themselves are illiterate and ignorant, and who has to trudge to the nearest local board schools or colleges, has not this child got merit, if he with all his disadvantages, is able to secure the qualifying marks of 40% or 50 % of the total at a competitive examination, where the children of the upper classes who have all the advantages, go to the Sacred Heart Convent and St. Stephen’s college and who have perhaps been especially coached for the examination may secure 70, 80 or even 90% of marks. Surely a child who has been able to jump over so many obstacles may be expected to do better and better as he moves along in life. He may flower late instead of early. Why then should he be stopped at the threshold on an alleged meritorian principle? The requirements of efficiency may always be safeguarded by the prescription of minimum standards. Meritocracy has always triumphed in the past in the case of the upper classes. But why should this so-called meritorian principle be put against meritocracy when we come to Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes and Backward Classes?



Efficiency is very much on the lips of the privileged, whenever reservation is mentioned. Efficiency will be impaired if the total Reservation exceeds a certain percentage. Efficiency will suffer if the rule of Reservation is carried forward or if it is extended to promotional posts. All this is not true and has neither scientific nor statistical basis. The truth is that the civil service is no paradise, and the upper echelons belonging to the chosen classes are not necessarily models of efficiency. The underlying assumption that those belonging to the upper casts and classes who are appointed to the non-reserved posts will, because of their presumed merit, naturally perform better than those who are appointed to the Reserved posts is a vicious assumption typical of the superior approach of the elitist classes. There is no statistical basis or expert evidence to support the assumption what efficiency will be impaired if Reservation is continued or if Reservation is exceeds a certain percentage or even Reservation is extended to promotional posts. Arguments are advanced and options are expressed entirely on a presumptive basis. Once in court, a very serious argument was advanced before us that the number of Railway accidents had increased after members of the Scheduled Castes were appointed as Engine Drivers. When we put the question whether any engine drivers belonging to the Scheduled Castes were involved at all in the accidents, there was no answer. The truth of the matter is that the age long contempt with which the Superior or forward castes have treated the inferior or backward casts is transforming itself into an unfair prejudice ever since the inferior castes or classes started claiming their legitimate share of opportunity for education and employment. The superior castes who are faced with the problem of parting with part of their vested privileges are very naturally annoyed and afraid that their monopoly in the higher ranks of Government service and the professions might be lost. So one hears the sacred word ‘efficiency’ everywhere. One may well ask the question, what have these efficient administrators who have been ruling this county for the last 35 years, done to improve the position of the Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes and other Backward Classes.



An efficient administrator is not one who secures the highest marks in the examination, but one who possesses among other qualities the capacity to understand with sympathy and therefore, to tackle bravely the problems of the large masses of the Weaker Sections of the people. And who better than those belonging to those very sections? It is not a legitimate question to ask whether things might not have been different had the District Administrators and the State and Central Bureaucrats been drawn in larger measure from the oppressed classes? I do not mean to say that efficiency in the civil service is unnecessary or that it is a myth. All that I wish to say is that one need not make a fetish of it. It may be that certain posts require a very high degree of skill or efficiency and certain courses of study require a high degree of industry and intelligence. The rules must make suitable provision in such cases by prescribing a high minimum qualifying standard and an appropriate method of selection. Quite obviously the degree of efficiency required of a cardiac or a neurosurgeon is not the same as the degree of efficiency required of a general medical practitioner. No one will suggest that the degree of industry and intelligence expected of a candidate seeking admission to a research degree course should be the same as that of a candidate seeking admission to an ordinary arts degree course. Efficiency therefore, is not to be altogether discounted. But it cannot be used as a camouflage to let the upper classes take advantage of the backward classes to monopolise the services, particularly the higher posts and the professional institutions.



In this little book, Shri Paramji has demonstrated how given equal opportunity, member of the Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes, and other Backward classes are as capable of moving up as it not faster than, the members of the forward castes and classes. He has done this not by adopting an emotional approach, biased in favour of the Scheduled Castes etc, but by facts, figure and empiricist analysis. I congratulate Shri Paramji on bringing out this volume, and I am very happy to be associated with this function. I hope, the elite will favour the book by purchasing and reading it and understand Why Reservations?

************************************************************
NOTE :
* Justice Mr O Chinnappa Reddy, was then a Judge of the Supreme Court. This was his Presidential Speech delivered on the occasion of the release of Dr Paramji’s Book - “CASTE RESERVATIONS AND PERFORMANCE’ on 14th April - Dr Ambedkar’s Birth Day - 1985 in the Jawaharlal Nehru Museum Auditorium, Teen Murti House, New Delhi.

The Book Release Function was organised by the Department of Scheduled Classes of the Indian Social Institute, New Delhi; and the Social Study Circle.

Dr Paramji was the a Professor in the Kakatiya University, Warangal, Andhra Pradesh.

The book was released by Mr Yogendra Makhwana, then a Minister of State in the Ministry of Health and Family Welfare, Govt of India, New Delhi.

Honourable Justice Mr O Chinnappa Reddy of the Supreme Court of India presided.

For futher study on reservation
http://www.angelfire.com/indie/sscres/index.html

[smellyfinger]

Dalit,

Which part of the preamble to the thread did you not get ?? I said, let us assume that reservations are here and are needed. I am talking of reform to the existing policies. Your comments on that ??

OK let me tell you what i feel.

According to the provision of the Constitution, reservation is for a period of 10 years. at the end of 10years the govt. evaluates the performance of the Dalits. i.e. have the dalits reached the target of equality. and the standard set for that was 22.5 % of reservation in all posts.(22.5% is set on the basis of the population as of 1950 now the population of Dalits has reached to 25% approx.).


As of now the expire of reservation is 2010. So we can get rid of reservation at latest by 2010 not as you said 2020. For that people have to make an effort.

As far as i am concerned, i don't think there is a need to reform the reservation policy. All we need is a honest implementation of Reservation.

Yes, i keep hearing of rich Dalits still using reservation. but if we take a percentage, it is very negligible. It is so less that, there will be more Bogus castes certificate who are using the reservation( and mind you they are rich and influential too).


To conclude. I think, the policy we have is great and the law is perfect. All we need is implementation.

Dalit
http://www.ambedkar.org

[smellyfinger]

Dalit,

So you have no problems with #5 and #6.

#5. Test for basic aptitude. Dont you think that consumers have any rights ?? Remember these people will get jobs which will directly influence consumers. Dont you think that the consumers (Dalits and non-Dalits alike) deserve that ??

#6. One time reservation policy. If a person has been granted admission based on reservation, that should level the playing field. Why, then, does that person need a reservation to get a job ?? And promotions after that ??

#5. Test for basic aptitude. Dont you think that consumers have any rights ?? Remember these people will get jobs which will directly influence consumers. Dont you think that the consumers (Dalits and non-Dalits alike) deserve that ??

I am not opposed any standards, yes if a person is working he should justify this salary. It does not matter if he is a Dalit or Not. And the same standards should be applied to all.


#6. One time reservation policy. If a person has been granted admission based on reservation, that should level the playing field. Why, then, does that person need a reservation to get a job ?? And promotions after that ??

Reservation should be at all level. Discrimination does not stop at admission to schools, Dalits have to face discrimination at all levels.

I know how difficult it for a Dalit to get a job. I know very well educated guys who haven't got a job just because he is a Dalit.

And my father is an excellect CAD person, is not given promotion just because he is a Dalit. So reservation should be there in promotion.

As i said before we can not do away with reservation as long as it serves its constitutional obligation.

Now the discussion should be how we full fill such a constitutional obligation.

Simple, start respecting people for what they are and not for what they are born as.

With metta
Dalit
http://www.ambedkar.org

[Bro]

Originally posted by


As i said before we can not do away with reservation as long as it serves its constitutional obligation.

Now the discussion should be how we full fill such a constitutional obligation.

Simple, start respecting people for what they are and not for what they are born as.

With metta
Dalit
http://www.ambedkar.org


I think that "constitutional obligation" of the present reservation system should also be to unite the Nation and not break the hearts of our children and create a generation who hate each other
Do you think after 2010 or 2020 we will be happy as Nation free of hate?

If that constitutional Obligation is breaking us at a tender age we should try to reform it. Please be positive think for the futur of all our children