Is re-building of Ram Mandir or Babri Masjid relevant today?

[echarcha]

There has been a circus going on in Parliament over some Ayodhya temple statements made by Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee. I just scanned all of the headlines and felt sad that people in Parliament are having a field day at the expense of Indian people and economy!

I want to ask all of you an honest opinion. I have set up the "Apke Vichar" poll also to get the pulse.

Today, after so many years since the unfortunate Ram Mandir - Babri Masjid event in Ayodha, do you think that it really matters whether we build a Mandir or Masjid in Ayodhya?

I really dont know whether there was a Masjid or a Mandir originally. Maybe there was a Mandir. Maybe Mandir was razed and a Masjid erected on top of it. Maybe there was no Mandir. Maybe the Masjid was an original construction. There are too many contradictory claims to this. I dont wish to get into all that. My question to you is different.

I know one more thing from the media reports during Ayodhya crisis that that the site was under lock and key and then one fine day the locks were opened and all hell broke loose. Who opened the locks? Who gave prominence to a dormant issue? I dont know all this.

What I do know is that that a lot of innocent people in my home town Mumbai lost their lives in the rioting and the bomb blasts that resulted due to the demolition in Ayodhya. I also know that a lot of people were killed in riots throughout the country.

Do you think that the government should raze the structure to the ground and build a Mandir as well as a Masjid at the same spot? Will this solve the problem? Will this satisfy all parties concerned?

Do you think that Hindus and Muslims are still interested in this issues after so many years?

Offcourse there are some users on echarcha who wont see eye to eye on any peaceful compromise, but I would like to know your opinions!

[laal_langot]

As per my limited knowledge the locks were opened on encouragment by the congress and it was at that moment just preyed upon by them as a short cut to votes in U.P.
But the fact of the matter is even if it was the case as people put it that their RAM LALLA was born there my question is what happened to them when the mosque was being constructed there???Did all the historians go into a slumber then????who can prove to me objectively that Ram was born there???and those who contend that the masjid was an inevitable part of their existence I pose the question why did the place lie dialpidated for all those years when it was locked???was it that the muezzins there had gone for a long round the world holiday or something????

Both the sides are just flogging a dead horse...what happened on the 6th dec.is a blot on the secular reputation of India till it survives and the reverbarations of the foolish act of lunatics describing themselves as kar sevaks were felt as far afield as the middle eastern countries where a couple of sikhs were killed in Kuwait immediately following the incident in drive by shoot outs because Sikhs were easy to make out whereas with hindus there were no obvious traits to separate them from the muslims.
Today when we have the muslims making headway in most fields from nuclear technology(ABUL KALAM) to producing one of the best and most graceful bowlers we have seen in a while-ZAHEER KHAN(who happens to be a fellow trainee from the MRF foundation Chennai) I think these issues are just going to distract attention away from the issues we need to focus on.What we need right now is a major revamp of the system in almost every field from politics to education and that should be pur priority not the chronology of events that led to the final structure emerging at Ayodhya or the Gyanvapi structure in Varanasi which also has a similar contentious air about it.

For all I care I think that the place shoule be confiscated by the central government and the place should be alloted to some purpose like a children's park or say an amusement park for children,a children's hospital.......anything but a religious structure.I think its time we realise that neither V.P Singhal nor rajju bhaiya nor murli manohar joshi was there when ram lalla was delievered and for all we know ram might have been born at an equivalent(in that era)of the jaslok hospital but that again is IF he ever was born.

[Shringarey]

Friends,

It has been suggested that since Ram Mandir/Masjid is a 500 year old dormant issue, it should be forgotten. What people are not able to understand is this : the Mandir/Masjid is just a symbol, an icon of much larger issues which we are unable to ignore. I list some of them here :

i) Every Muslim Mullah gets a pension of Rs 2,200 pm from the Govt. Why not Hindu priests? Either give to all religions or to none. But when we ask this question, we are accused of creating problems of religios divide. We are - or THEY (Govt) are?

2) Every Muslim gets a RIGHT to be subsidized for travel to Haj, upto Rs 12,000. Why not Hindus be subsidize travel to Varanasi? When we raise the issue, we are accused of fundamentalism.

3) The Muslim Madrassas are subsidized upto Rs 800 pm per student. Forget subsidizing Hindu missions, we are BANNED from creating Hindu missionary schools EVEN FROM OUR OWN FUNDS. We are called Fundamentalist !!

4) When the Pope comes, he is given a 21 gun salute. When we talk of separation of state and religion, we are told that the salute is given not on account of religion, but because he is the head of state- Vatican. OK. But when the King of Nepal, the head of a HINDU state comes, he is not given any salute - Why? - Separation of State and Religion.

5) When our artisans build Ganapatis for immersion, they require a Pandal, as some statues are large. We have to pay a bribe of 15% under the table to Municipalty politician to get permission. The same politician goes and uses the money to build a mosque for Muslim votes. What is a special tax levied on Hindus to build mosques called? - JIJIYA. We had a relationship like that once, but I thought we ended it when we conquered Raigad. We raise the issue - we become Fundamentalists.

6) When Shabana Azmi made Fire showing lesbian women named Sita and Nita, it was passed - freedom of expression. When a similar film was made in a Muslim household, with names Zaheeda and Farida, there was a storm and the film was banned because of hurting Muslim sentiments. What about our sentiments? Either allow both or ban both. When we raise the issue, we are called FUNDAMENTALISTS!!

7)When Bakri-Id falls on the same day as Shivaratri, public butchering of goats is NOT banned. Why? Freedom of expression. Let Muslims cut bakri - Hindus not eat it. But when Gatari Amvasya (when Hindus eat chicken) falls on the same day as Mahavir Jayanti, chicken cutting is banned, as it would hurt Jain sentiments. After all we are secular no?

I could go on and on and on and on....

These issues are being discussed at Babri Masjid.

Bye

[aurangzeb]

The act of hooliganism and naked hate shown by the proponents of Hindutva in Ayodhya should be immediately reversed.The glorious Masjid built by none other than the great Babar the establisher of the 'Takth 'E' Babri'should
be immediately rebuilt.It is one of the first things that Pakistan should try and do after it's conquest of India.

Not just that all those hate mongers of the Hindu organisation should be beheaded in a public square only then this insult heaped on the innocent Muslims of India who were
tricked into staying back in India will be avenged.

Infact all those political parties propogating Hinduism should be disbanded.I do not propose a complete anhilation of the Hindu creed no nothing like what Hitler did.Even after Islamic rule is established all over the sub continent
the Hindus will be free to survive but they will have to pay the Jazia tax and pay obeisance to their Muslim rulers.This is the only way peace can prevail in the subcontinent.There should be not Hindu army..because this is the primary reason of clashes.

This is the solution one group of people should accept the obvious superiority of another group of people.Even history shows that Hindus have always accepted Muslim superiority.
And they should do so even now.

This is the most honest explaination that I have given.Let peace should prevail.

Allah Hafiz!

[Mr India]

WHy are booze shops closed on all Hindu holidays but open on Muslim ones????

[laal_langot]

Pretty hard to change inherent mentalities I guess......

There is not point in discussing if the Mandir may be made or not. It should be a priority for every Indian to build a national icon in their motherland. Shri Ram Mandir in Ayodhaya should be built in such a magnificent manner the it seen as one of the modern wonders of the world.

Most of the Muslim in Indian don't think India to be their motherland and such people should leave our Holy Land immediately.

More than 30,000 temples were converted into mosque by Barber and his clan of invaders. Biggest sin committed as per the Kuraan, the book muslims blindly follow. They start their reading from this kuraan, its time they followed it too.

Shri Ram Mandir is more than just a sentimental issue for Indians, its a demand from a majority of people and has to be complied to. People from any religion can oppose it but in the end the majority will decide on the final outcome.

Muslims should now agree for a peaceful solution and join hands for the construction of Shri Ram Mandir as Kar Sewak. This act on one hand would get them international cheers and on the second hand would wash away some of the sins committed by them and their barbarian ancestors.

Jai Shree Ram & Jai Hindustan

[padhu]

omnah contrary to your statement that most muslims dont consider their country their motherland is absolute bullshit. I can show you tons of muslims who care a damn for pakiland. Yes, there are some rotten eggs in every basket but that doesnt mean that all of them are bad. This psychosis has been created by those same bastards who inspite of such a big calamity happening in gujrat, still cant get their decks in order. Those same people make us fight between each other so that they can remain at the top at our expense. I dont care and i know lots of people who dot either as to what stood at the spot in ayodyha or not. Its not a question of what one should build there or not. We should realise that appeasing no particular community has created any dividends for the country so all this has to stop. Forget the mandir or masjid. We lost tons of lives in the riots when the mosque was raized to the ground, are we prepared to loose more again. An interesting article that i was reading on some online site that India is plagued with some calamity every year. Assam floods before, earthquake this year.....maybe the riots next year. We already have lost so many people ...do we want to add more to these statistics. Lets just live in peace.....like humans...rather than point fingers at each other as to who did what. May god bless india.

Aurangzeb asserted that Mughal Raj laana hain ! Hail be Aurangzeb (the Late Emperor rising from the grave)…Perhaps he thinks India is still in the era of 1700s. Poor Chap! ignorant that his descendants are selling lungies on foothpath in Metiabruz a suburban hub of below poverty line people in the outskirts of Calcutta !
A live person’s dream is hard to turn to reality what to speak of the dream of the dead! You better take your dreams and sleep peacefully in your grave – we Indians are past the millennium you were born in!
However it seems you are ignorant about the basic tenets of Hinduism and Islam. In fact followers of Islam are nothing but following the path which Hindus have passed away much before. The Vedas (the holy books of the Hindus) emphasize upon existence of one God which is Omnipresent, All Merciful and All Powerful – named Brahma. The Koran also says the same except the name which is – Allah! Hindus chant Om – a letter if written in Devnagri script and made to lie down horizontally – resembles the word Allah written in Urdu script! Hindus take it while standing, Islam takes it while sleeping – a manner considered to be disobedient in paying obeisance!
Hinduism is a forward looking religion and changes with time accommodating modern thoughts! Modern thoughts show that one single person can never manage all aspects at a time. A government of a single person is destined to doom whereas a government of many(democratic) with different people managing different aspects makes a better progress. Pakistan & India in the present day, headed by Pervez Musharraf and Atal Bihari Vajpayee respectively are living examples! Pakistan dooms while India prospers! Hindus do not accept the superiority of Muslims. In fact, Hindus see Muslims as small children. If a child is constantly pining for something, elders give it to them , it does not mean that the elders accept the superiority of children. But then, it does not mean that if a child asks an elderly person to cut off his head and give it to him, the elderly person will never agree to it and if the child persists the elderly person will go even to the extent of eliminating the child if the situation so demands to save his own life. The observations obviously are towards Kashmir which Pakis are asking for – Poor children ignorant of their fate!
Kashmir is hard to get forget ruling over India.
Hinduism with modern thoughts has passed over the phase of worshipping only one God as the idea seems outdated so Hindus have a battery of Gods each with a specific department.
Christians are also interpreting GOD as a trinity – Generator, Operator, and Destroyer ( Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh respectively) they have also moved from one to three. Followers of Islam follow suit - inculcate modern thoughts. Followers of all religions are younger children of Hinduism because all of them follow what Hinduism preached ages AGO !


JAI SANATHANA DHARMA (this is the real name of Hinduism. Hindu is the name given to this religion by foreigners. For details visit us our next CHARCHA !!)
HAPPY READING ! Opinions Solicited ! Good & Bad all in same stride – accepted with gratitude.

SALAM BRAHMAND



[Edited by Sarvahara-sab ka malik on 02-03-2001 at 01:28 AM]

[aryaputra]

Boss,

my gut feeling says this:

all muslims in India who are Faithful to India are converted muslims.

All muslims who are failthful to Pakistan(but stay in India) are the original muslims - descendent of Mr.Babar and Army!

So now we know who gives a damn about India and who doesn't. right? :D