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2gud
February 9th, 2007, 09:43 PM
Rude shock: Indian docs lose case against British govt
http://static.ibnlive.com/pix/sitepix/02_2007/bapio_ruling248.jpg


LONDON: Thousands of doctors from the Indian sub-continent have lost their seven-month-old legal challenge to the British government to force it to treat non-European Union medics in the UK "on a par and equally" with Europeans.

The net result is that at least 15,000 Indian doctors currently training in the UK may be forced to leave the country with their career paths thrown into confusion.

The British Association of Physicians of Indian Origin (BAPIO), which was the lead appellant in the case, told TOI just minutes after a verdict they described as "disappointing" that they were considering a legal appeal.

The lost legal challenge had been launched last June, nearly three months after Britain suddenly - and without consultation or warning - decreed that work permit-free visas would no longer be issued to non-European Union doctors, as had always been the case in the past.

On Friday, in a keenly-awaited decision handed down in the High Court in London, the Indian doctors were told by Judge Stanley Burton that he agreed with only one-third of their arguments against the department of health and home office. Judge Burton said he agreed the British government had been lax in failing to conduct a race impact assessment of the new visa requirements for non-European doctors. A race impact assessment is required by Britain's stringent race relations laws.

In a dark sidebar to the High Court judgment, BAPIO said it was lamenting the suicide just days ago of the second appellant in the case against the government.

BAPIO vice-chair Satheesh Mathew said Lahore-born-and-bred Dr Imran Yousaf, who "had been in this country for about two years. (found that) the new visa regulations introduced in April 2006 made it much more difficult for him to obtain a job in this country and he remained unemployed. He felt his career was destroyed."

Mathew said Khan felt "the last straw was when he recently got a letter from the home office refusing him further leave to remain. All this was too much for him and precipitated him to take his own life."

He added, "This to me is only the tip of the iceberg of distress and damage that these new regulations have done to the vast number of international medical graduates (IMGs) in this country." IMG is the technical term used to describe doctors who receive the bulk of their primary and secondary training outside the European Union.

In a sign of the anticipated knock-on effect of Friday's judgement, the ruling was described as "devastating" by at least 30,000 other Indians who lodged a legal case on February 6 to challenge the British government for allegedly disenfranchising non-European economic migrants invited into the UK under the Highly Skilled Migrants Programme (HSMP).

In Friday's ruling, Judge Burton crucially ruled that contrary to the Indian doctors' assertion, the British government was not required to consult with the affected parties before changing rules governing immigration, visas and work permits.

Amit Kapadia, coordinator of the 800-member HSMP Forum campaign group said the judgment was very disappointing because "if the British government is not required to consult with stakeholders before changing immigration rules, then what is the point of going to court?"



But BAPIO's head, Dr Ramesh Mehta, insisted the Indian doctors were keen to lodge a legal appeal as soon as possible to challenge Britain's treatment of them as "second-class doctors". But Mehta admitted BAPIO was strapped for cash after the lost legal challenge, which cost £ 56,000, including the services of a top-flight lawyer and Cherie Blair-ally Rabinder Singh. Mehta and Mathew said it was important for BAPIO to raise funds from Indians everywhere in order to "fight for justice".

Sources close to the Indian doctors told this paper the judgement appeared to suggest "collusion" between the judiciary and executive.

The judge devastatingly ruled against the Indian doctors' contention that Britain's health and home ministries had issued conflicting and restrictive advice with regard to their right to stay on in the UK under the HSMP scheme.

The Indians had argued that the department of health gave restrictive guidance, compared to the Home Office, to Indian HSMP visa-holders. The conflicting guidance, the Indians claimed, did not allow them to take up jobs for a period longer than their HSMP visas even though the Home Office had always said they were free to accept any employment, howsoever long it lasts.

A deeply-disappointed Mathew told TOI that the lost legal challenge was "the first time people of Indian origin stood up against the system".

The High Court case was the first time, in more than half-a-century, Indian doctors assumed a confrontational position with the country that enthusiastically invited them in to serve in its National Health Service (NHS).

BAPIO, which has 6,000 fully paid-up members, claims to address the needs of a further 25,000 Indian doctors in the UK.

In the heady days of June when it had just taken the British government to court, BAPIO had said that the new regulations governing non-European medics "undervalue the contribution made by doctors from the new Commonwealth for decades and this has demoralising effect on the workforce."

Mehta said on Friday," This is a very sad day. This was a fight to uphold the self respect of International Medical Graduates in the UK. We would like to thank our legal team lead by Rabinder Singh QC. It is sad that we are not victorious. We are a voluntary organisation with limited funds but there was a groundswell of support and the money poured in to pay for the legal costs, We want to thank all the hundreds of doctors who contributed their hard-earned money to make this fight possible".

Source: TOI (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/15000_Indian_doctors_face_Quit_Great_Britain_order/articleshow/1586856.cms)

What a waste of time and talent in anticipation of a better career / money :down::down::mad:

sgars
February 10th, 2007, 01:08 AM
Waste of Time Yes.

But These docs might be better off in india. The corporate hospitals charge a lot of fees and a good part might be going to these docs. Also, Medical Tourism is taking off in India, which would benefit from these docs and benefit these in turn.

So, UK's loss is India's gain.

BIG CATCH - Not more than 100 of those 15000 would agree with me now. But probably a year or so down the line, many more may.

AmthaLal
February 10th, 2007, 11:10 AM
:up: :up: To British govt.

These greedy a.holes should be deported too.

How much money Indian govt spends on these basterds to make them doctors and they just wants free ride. Not only in India, but in other country too.
If they want to practice there and make loads of money, fine. Finish Residency in India which is required, and goto the country you want to by following emmigration guidelines.:smash:

santra
February 10th, 2007, 05:52 PM
How much money Indian govt spends on these basterds to make them doctors and they just wants free ride.

Amtha bhai,

Take it easy. That's true for other professionals in India. Most of the Govt. Engg. or Medical colleges are funded by govt. they charge nominal fee or subsidized fee. After studying there we also came to US or left India for some other countries looking for greener pastures same like these doctors.

I'm not sure if you came here on H-1 but I came and many on this forum came on H-1. At some point or other everybody has gone thru the pain of GC processing. Some of us are might be going thru it now. So take it easy and and don't make such harsh blanket statement.

P.S. No flames Please

disclaimer : None of my friends or relatives are in those 15K doctors but I feel bad for them as an Indian and as Professional.

AmthaLal
February 11th, 2007, 09:27 AM
Amtha bhai,

Take it easy. That's true for other professionals in India. Most of the Govt. Engg. or Medical colleges are funded by govt. they charge nominal fee or subsidized fee. After studying there we also came to US or left India for some other countries looking for greener pastures same like these doctors.

I'm not sure if you came here on H-1 but I came and many on this forum came on H-1. At some point or other everybody has gone thru the pain of GC processing. Some of us are might be going thru it now. So take it easy and and don't make such harsh blanket statement.

P.S. No flames Please

disclaimer : None of my friends or relatives are in those 15K doctors but I feel bad for them as an Indian and as Professional.



Dude,
I am not against any doctor who finishes his residency and then go to ANY country to make money. But lot of them bunk the residency. And not the ones going for work permit, but coming to US on GC. I am against that too.
I know lot of those maaderbhagats personally. One of my cousin and one very close family friend too. And I hate them for that reason.

And for me,
I came on GC, but dude, there is no residency or mandatory internship for engineers. Although I DID worked 2 full years of teaching after I graduated before coming to US. So I feel I did my fair share.

One of my best friend is very well known cardiac surgeon making tonns of money, did lot of work in India. Not only, He still goes to India to serve ppl. He finished not only his residency, did MS also there. And I am very very proud of him being my closest pal. He also brags to others that I am his closest friend. And now he is well known doctor in NJ.

May be my explanation was misleading, but I am not against all those 15000, but only I am against those who skipped residency. And I guarantee you, there must be atleast few 100 in those 15000.

krishna
February 11th, 2007, 09:32 AM
:up: :up: To British govt.

These greedy a.holes should be deported too.

How much money Indian govt spends on these basterds to make them doctors and they just wants free ride. Not only in India, but in other country too.
If they want to practice there and make loads of money, fine. Finish Residency in India which is required, and goto the country you want to by following emmigration guidelines.:smash:


I agree with you completely. Most Indian educated doctors suck. I don't want some who went to medical school on a management quota to be treated equally to doctors who made it through talent.

AmthaLal
February 11th, 2007, 09:58 AM
Most Indian educated doctors suck. I don't want some who went to medical school on a management quota to be treated equally to doctors who made it through talent.


But I don't agree with you on this completely. I have seen other way around.
The friend I mentioned in above post went to Medical on mgmt quota since his dad was very big doc in our town, also other friend went to same college also on mgmt quota, finished residency ofcourse, did MS is BIG time Ortho surgeon in NY. Yhese guys ARE smart and intelligent.

Do you know which doctors suck biggest time? OBC/BC etc... quota seat doctors. There are very very few from these quota who have made it big.
I remeber, when we graduated in 12th, our open category closed at 66% for engg, and this one maderchor BC from our batch got in to top Medical college of Guj at 55%.:mad:

Cooldude
February 12th, 2007, 02:37 AM
The British government is justified here to protect the interests of the local EU doctors, but it shouldn't have brought this law into effect so suddenly without sufficient prior notification.

This sudden rule change has put many of these Indian docs in a quandary as they must have spent their lifetime savings to get into the UK. Now that money spent is apparently wasted.

I miss our good old vakil sahib here. Since he’s in the UK & well acquainted with the laws there, he would have provided a proper insight into this ruling.

Vakil Sahib, if you are reading this, please post your views. Thanks.

marvelous
February 12th, 2007, 03:13 AM
I remeber too, when we graduated in 12th, our open category closed at 78% for engineering (MSU), and this one ******** BC from our batch got in to top Medical college of Guj at maybe 48~50%.:mad::mad:







.

echarcha
February 13th, 2007, 01:24 AM
Call me stupid, but I cannot imagine working in England which one time ruled us. I somehow would prefer working anywhere else but not Britain.

A very close friend was in UK for the last 18 months and he just returned to USA. We met for dinner this last Friday. He was telling me how racism is quite open in UK while Indians are well accepted in USA.

I would rather work in USA than UK. To be honest, after Mumbai meri jaan, I feel USA is the best country to live in.

krishna
February 13th, 2007, 05:14 AM
But I don't agree with you on this completely. I have seen other way around.
The friend I mentioned in above post went to Medical on mgmt quota since his dad was very big doc in our town, also other friend went to same college also on mgmt quota, finished residency ofcourse, did MS is BIG time Ortho surgeon in NY. Yhese guys ARE smart and intelligent.

Do you know which doctors suck biggest time? OBC/BC etc... quota seat doctors. There are very very few from these quota who have made it big.
I remeber, when we graduated in 12th, our open category closed at 66% for engg, and this one maderchor BC from our batch got in to top Medical college of Guj at 55%.:mad:

Amtha bhai,

I disagree with you completely. I, whenever I go to a doctor, look to see where he went to school. As a general rule, I refuse to go to Indian doctors who did not study in the US. Management quota is a horrible invention, along with reservations to a large extent. If a person is really talented and capable, he should be in medical school because of his brains not the size of his dad's wallet.