Vajpayee -Musharraf meet over Kashmir: What will Vajpayee say next?

[echarcha]

As all of you know that Pervez Musharraf has ben invited over to India by Prime Minister Vajpayee.

I am sure lot of media & newspaper sites with loads of money and reporters will post a complete coverage of the event. I am a single man non-dot-com ;) who cannot afford this. So I will rely on others for my news of this event.

But I can surely do one thing. I can ask you to answer a futuristic survey! I say futursitic because, I think I know what is going to happen at the meeting. I am sure many of you and the several crores of our brethren back home also have a feeling.

Since we have eCharcha here, lets try and post our own opinions here on this.

Okay here is the survey scenario and questions:

Scenario: Musharraf says something to the effect Oh dear Vajpayee-ji, I know how much you love peace. Infact I am also very very peaceful man. Totally agree with you sir. But you see the problem is that if I agree with your peace proposal and say that Kashmir is righfully yours, then my people back home will disturb the peace prevailing in Pakistan. So you see this will disturb me and I love peace as I said before. So you can take your Kashmir peace proposal and shove it... "

-- cut to the next scene ----

Vajpayee beams with pride that Musharraf may not agree wholly but loves peace atleast!

So the million dollar question is: In the event, which is more likely, that Pakistan spurns all offers of any compromises, what will Vajpayee or his government say next?

PLEASE: NO MORONIC RELIGION BASHING & STUPID REPLIES.

One can be witty, sarcastic, caustic and humorous without resorting to moronic religion bashing

[echarcha]

check this one:

http://www.echarcha.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=2301&perpage=10&pagenumber=2

[tantric_yogi]

Originally posted by echarcha
So the million dollar question is: In the event, which is more likely, that Pakistan spurns all offers of any compromises, what will Vajpayee or his government say next?

I have my qualms as to India's intentions ;) for inviting General for summit talks. Did Indian politicians truly conclude that this will solve the Kashmir problem? I don't think so. I think India for a change took an exceptionally daring gamble knowing well that Pakistan can in no way refuse to participate in such meeting.
Success or a failure these talks can do great wonders for Indian international reputation and relations :up: !

India has nothing to lose from this summit. Pakistan has already lost all its international credibility with its support of terrorists and will lose it all if it will appear that they are neither ready nor willing to settle peacefully and stop all illegal activity along the border.

Brilliant move by India, let's see if they can follow it up with some exceptional moves during the summit, if not to settle the problem but at least for the benefit of international community public relations...

Let's hope and pray that this summit can bring some solution..

[TheRock]

Originally posted by tantric_yogi
India has nothing to lose from this summit. Pakistan has already lost all its international credibility

Well, if it goes Pakis way, they may even make India out as a "diplomatic time-waster" country....thats what the US,etc. seem to be thinking this time...

[tantric_yogi]

Originally posted by TheRock
make India out as a "diplomatic time-waster" country....thats what the US,etc. seem to be thinking this time...
Disagree...if you read "the language" of statements coming from western government sources and specially US State Dept. I disagree strongly...

The ROCK
ok, so what is your take on >>In the event, which is more likely, that Pakistan spurns all offers of any compromises, what will Vajpayee or his government say next?<<<

[risingsun]

Vajpayee govt have one option of striking the terrorist bases across the border in disputed territory, this could well be an option resorted to.
But India is a great peace loving country, so if the talks fail we have no way other than to wait/arrange for another round of talks or alternatively wait for pak to attack us so that we can crush it.

[TheRock]

tantrikji,

There is a different in what I want them to say, and what they will say according to me.

What they will say, according to me is here (http://www.echarcha.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2301&perpage=10&pagenumber=2#post30103).

What I want them to say AFTER saying the above in public, to whisper in Musharaf's Ear: "You are going home dead. As soon as you will move out of this room, you will accidently slip and become a victim of brain hammerage. Rest, we will manage with Pakistan." :up:

[padhu]

Before we start bashing both vajpayee and mushraff, lets realize one thing first about Kashmir. Its a disputed territory. No matter how much India yells and screams about it, in the world news you will always hear the statement about Indian attrocities to the locals of kasmir. Whether its true or false is a different issue all together, but Pakistan has played this marketing car so well in the international arena, that we are being shown as the evangelists of crime in kashmir.

Its so bad, no matter what the india/us relations might be, but most if the maps of india in us books, eiter have kashmir showing as a part of pakistan and some part into china.

So far, none of the goverments in power have played a strong marketing card in the international segment oter than yell out the Simla Aggrement. No one even counters these maps and takes objection to them.

Everyone knows that aggrements made years ago cannot last forever and have to change with time, not that i am saying that give kashmir away, but there is a better way to counter the paki claims.

And thats exactly what i believe that the Vajpayee govt is doing. With the announcement of this summit, the world has started to look at the vajpayee govt as someone who can broker a peaceful situation in the valley. Evryone knows that its not gonna happen (reasons below), but they like to push that though below the carpet.

Now, the reason why this summit will not yield results for kashmir. Kashmir is a very strategic and delicate issue for both countries. If any of the goverments (Mushraf/Vajpayee) yield to even part of that commitment, then that goverment will fall....ad no politician wants to be out of power. The Indian side will not give up kashmir as its a part of india. The mushraff regime will not give up kashmir as the public fallout in pakistan will be emmense. Secondly pakistan is currently divided into 3 different sections.

1) People who want the army to continue to be in power.
2) People who want an electoral governemt to be in power.
3) People who want an islamic government to be in power.

Even though there are these 3 distinct divisions , the end result is till the same. THey all want kashmir.

Now as for the militray regime to come in power, well its better than the latter two to come to power. If the islamic goverment come into power in pakistan then we are not goign to see the end of bloodshed in kashmir, as these guys will not rest fr they will continue in the name of jehad every known tactic till either side is destroyed. The second goverment is in anycase just for name sake, for in pakistan, history has thought us that a democratic goverment can be thrown out any time.

So where does this leave the Vajpayee/Mushraff summit. To be frank nowhere. But both sides understand that the world is watching them, and that means credibility. The mushraff goverment wants the world to look at this militray goverment in a lighter way rather than the harsh treatment they are getting now, and Vajpayee wants to get India, closer to the big western countries. The thing is that this summit might not solve the kashmir issue at all, but they will sign a few smaller aggrements and set up dates to meet for some more summits to further discuss this issue. Both sides will be happy and blow the horn that they broke the ice. But thats it. Nothin else. Come on be realistic.......what couldnt happen in 52 yrs , the world wants it to be accomplised in a few hours. its crazy to even think about it that way.

So lets not pin our hopes on this summit to solve the kashmir issue. Its gonna take a few more years. Till then sit back and enjoy te show.

[viking]

The Kashmir problem will conclude only after the implosion of Pakistan.That day is not far away.Pakistan today is a country who exports Islamic terrorism as a commodity.

Islami Jehad - Pakistani brand!!

They will soon lose control over this frankenstein.India is well equipped to handle the situation but Pakistan is not.Lawlessness and civil war is looming large over Pakistan.

We Indians have to continue with our economic reforms and keep building on our foreign exchange reserves.We have to wait patiently until Pakistan breathes it's last.

Believe it or not but the root cause of the Kashmir problem is religion.And this problem has been around since time immemorial, it is not going to go away by summits such as the one being held in Delhi.

Like I'av esaid before peace has no takers in Pakistan.India not only has to deal with a fanatic Pakistani govt but also perfectly brainwashed Pakistani public.That is the crux of the problem!.
Is there any peaceful way that problem can be solved?

India has always been seen as a lame duck country.India is not respected by any of it's neighbours.We cannot depend on any of our neighbours.All this can be attributed to India's excessive emphasis on tolerance.India should change it's foreign policy and should learn to talk from a position of strength, but unfortunately it always appears pleading!

[CumuloNimbus]

History again seems to be repeating itself, if I am not badly mistaken. There are a lot of parallels between the Lahore and Agra summit. If we take that as a yardstick, things will go smoothly during the summit, results will be kept secret except for a not-commiting "Agra-declaration" (ie CBMs) which both sides agree to abide by....
Pak Economy will again be over-joyed to get another lease of life while not granting India the same benefits (MFN). I always thought concessions are to be reciprocated...:(

So in the end Pak gains disproportionately. Only gain on our side I can make out is the "semblance of peace" and "international good-will". I really pray and hope it is worth it.
As the saying goes once bitten, twice shy, however the Indian government appears to be the exception to the rule!

[Napolean]

Everyone except our PM seems to be aware of the ultimate outcome of the summit.
I think after Mushu's denial of accepting Kashmir as a part of India Vajpayee will say : "I will invite you again after a few months...just take your time.....think over it till then.. "

[vivek_lahoti]

to tell very frankly to me it seemslike a dhakonselay baaji by pakistan.
its just that they spoilt their name internationally, they have to show something like "we are always ready for peace, india is the one who shys out"
other wise, even as we are talking about the summit even right now, ISI is planning some mischief in the background.

thats also one of te reasons i would say indias decision of issuing visas to border folks in pakistan is something i would highly regret. (check out the TOI few days back)
and in return pakistan freed ONE indian from imprisonment in pakistan.
WHAT A MATCH.
what ever happened to all our fishermen they have imprisoned and soldiers of war in their custody. ( we only get thir mutiliated bodies)

india wouldnt have anything to loose if at all pakistan was a reliable country.
i personally see pakistan as a highly instable country. a place where the prime minister could be hanged by a military chief.
its not a democracy anymore. its a dictatorship.
to please the people they could do anything.


its like they are appling the genghis khan principle. like what he said to unite all of mongolia, just give them (all the tribes in mongolia) a common enemy. thats the only one thing that makes them forget their own hunger and poverty.

well, the only problem i see is pakis never keep their promises.
the summit should happen. but trusting pakis is entirely different issue.

[echarcha]

now can anyone guess what will this Indo-Pak summit give us?

The right guess will get a beer bash at my place :D

[vivek_lahoti]

to put some light.......

bad part:
what will happen is that musharraf will have a nice cosy day at the cost of money which belong to inidan tax payers.
by easing the visa procedures, some more infiltration into india will happen. india will, as always, realise a little late, after a few more soldiers die.
and they DONT keep their own promises.
its their habit to show a friendly gesture first and then peeth mein chura bhonkofy. REMEMBER KARGIL.

but..... could be optimistic also,
good part:
may be... just possible, now that the ice breaking has been done, there is no chance of full fledged war in the next 5-10 years atleast. so, attention could be on the REAL problems like poverty and above everything else ILLITERACY.
also, realations could improve if not worsen.
we dont have much to loose, nor do they. so, it could be a win-win situation.
and, as advaniji brought forth the issues of cross border terrorism and indian gangsters (dawood ibrahim) staying in pakistan, they are doing some hard talk. hopes of positive outcome are there.

but one thing i do totally dissagry with is indias decision of easing the visa procedure for pakistanis.
pakistan is not showing a similar gesture, and this is going to be a loosing situation for india.
you are going to get some news over some suicide terrorist entringindia WITH A VALID VISA trying to bomb the rashtrapati bhavan.
trust me on that one.