War of DVD Future: DVD-HD and Blue-Ray

[rameshp]

Industry titans join HD-DVD camp

Intel and Microsoft deal severe blow to Blu-ray
Iain Thomson, vnunet.com 27 Sep 2005

The standards war over the next generation of DVDs has heated up after Intel and Microsoft issued a joint announcement that they will join the HD-DVD Promotion Group.

The announcement is a serious blow to the Blu-ray camp, which has been bolstered by recent partner wins. It also sets Intel and Microsoft on a collision course with the world's two biggest PC manufacturers, Dell and HP, both of which support the Blu-ray standard.

"There are challenges and opportunities in the transition to high-definition experiences throughout the home," said Blair Westlake, corporate vice president of the Media/Entertainment & Technology Convergence Group at Microsoft.

"After looking at the core advantages to the PC ecosystem, and how it would benefit the consumer, it is clear that HD-DVD offers the highest quality, and is the most affordable and highly flexible solution available."

Westlake outlined his reasons for the decision, citing the low cost of manufacture and the superior capacity of HD-DVD media, following the announcement this week that 30GB HD-DVD discs will be available soon.

"The announcement from these two leading IT companies confirms the design advantages of HD-DVD and its achievement of maximum compatibility between AV and PC products," said Hisashi Yamada, chief fellow of Toshiba's digital media network company and chairman of the technical coordination group at the DVD Forum.

"In fact, it is increasingly clear that HD-DVD offers the best way forward in the convergence of the AV and PC worlds.

"Hollywood studios are now working on preparation of HD-DVD content, and I look forward to the near future when people everywhere will be able to enjoy high definition images on TV and their PC."

http://www.vnunet.com/2142869

whats with this war over HD-DVD and Blue-ray technologies? with intel and microsoft with them, i think HD-DVD might be the winner. but blue-ray has sony behind it.

[rameshp]

A little background about this war:

HD-DVD Status and Editorial:

Updated April 25th, 2005 by Editor-in-Chief Henning Molbaek.

The two formats fighting for supremacy as the next-generation videodisc format are HD-DVD (developed by Toshiba and NEC) and Blu-Ray (developed by Sony). The DVD Forum supports HD-DVD, but this does not mean that HD-DVD has won. It all comes down to one thing--studio support.

Blu-Ray has Sony-owned Columbia Tri-Star, and Sony just bought MGM. Recently, Disney said that it would release titles on Blu-Ray discs. HD-DVD is backed by Time Warner (Warner Bros. and New Line), Universal, and Paramount. 20th Century Fox has yet to decide but is on the advisory boards for both formats.

At this year's Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, the supporters behind HD-DVD put action behind their words, announcing more than 85 titles that will be released on HD-DVD before year's end, including "Batman Begins", "Braveheart", and the Harry Potter series. With that kind of line-up, it looks like HD-DVD may have taken the lead, leaving Blu-Ray with only titles from one other studio other than the ones owned by Sony and no announced movies.

However, a DVD format war may be avoided in the last minute. Sony execs are reaching out. "From the point of view to provide the best service to the consumer one format is better than two. We're open to discussions," Yukinori Kawauchi, general manager in charge of Blu-Ray at Sony, said in an interview. Toshiba (Behind HD-DVD) has said that they are now in talks with Sony and also prefers one format. This does not mean that one format is a reality just yet. HD-DVD still plans to launch in Q4 2005. However, if a unified format is decided upon it may delay the launch because of the time that the companies need to make it ready for mass production. The unified format will likely be a mix of the two formats. Taking the best from both worlds.

http://www.hddvd.org/hddvd/

[echarcha]

How soon before hackers come up with ways to duplicate these discs? :p

[rameshp]

How soon before hackers come up with ways to duplicate these discs? :p

yeah. these companies are relying too much on that 'piracy protection' factor of these new technologies. hackers will sooner or later find a way around to rip these discs anyway! :D

[Cooldude]

The future certainly holds good for the HD-DVDs than Sony's Blue-Ray which has been repeatedly snubbed in the past.



Film studios snub Sony DVD format (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4053875.stm)

Three Hollywood studios have chosen to embrace next-generation DVD technology backed by Toshiba, snubbing a rival product promoted by Sony.

Paramount, Universal and Warner Brothers are to use a high definition DVD format backed by Toshiba and NEC. Their decision is a setback for Sony which famously lost the battle to set a standard for video cassette recorders when its Betamax lost out to JVC's VHS.

Toshiba expects sales of HD-DVDs to hit 300bn yen ($2.9bn; £1.5bn) by 2010.

Clearer pictures

Next-generation DVDs can record an entire film in high definition format, ensuring sharper pictures. The technology is expected to become widely available from 2006 onwards.

The studios' decision to back the Toshiba backed product is hugely significant because along with New Line Cinema - a Warner sister company which is also supporting the HD format - they account for about 45% of packaged DVD content. Sony has been banking on its Blu-ray Disc technology which has, to date, won support from Sony Pictures Entertainment and MGM Studios.

Universal is to release titles on Toshiba's HD-DVD format next year while Paramount said it would follow suit in 2006. "We have done extensive research on Blu-ray and HD-DVD and we concluded finally that HD-DVD had several major advantages including in durability, reliability and manufacturing," Marsha King, general manager of Warner Home Video, told the Reuters news agency.

Competing formats

Sony also lost the most recent format war, when its DVD technology was snubbed by other Japanese equipment manufacturers. This allowed Toshiba technology to become the current industry standard.

"We think this carries a great impact," said Yoshihide Fujii, a corporate senior vice president at Toshiba. "There is strong desire in Hollywood for a single format."

Universal, Paramount and Warners said they would continue to work with the Blu-ray group, whose members also include Dell, Samsung and Matsushita. Twentieth Century Fox said recently that it was evaluating both major formats.

[echarcha]

Can someone post the technical differences between the two formats. It would be good to know what each has to offer.

[Agastya]

deciding vote will be cast by porn industry.

[TerminatorJR]

ha ha . good one :p :D

[Cooldude]

Seems like some movie studios have decided to be fair to both DVD-HD and Blue-Ray formats.



Warner Bros. to Back Both Blu-Ray, HD DVD (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,173046,00.html)

LOS ANGELES — Warner Bros. has become the second studio to support both high definition DVD formats, a move that could shift the advantage to the Blu-ray format (search) backed by a group led by Sony Corp.

Warner Bros. Entertainment said Thursday it would join the board of the Blu-ray Disc Association and will release its films on both the Blu-ray and the rival HD DVD (search) format, which is backed by a group led by Toshiba Corp.

Earlier this month, Paramount Pictures, another supporter of HD DVD, said it would release films in both formats.

The move comes the day after Hewlett-Packard Co., a major backer of Blu-ray, urged that it be more consumer-friendly in a bid to forestall a lengthy and costly war with a competing standard. Last month, the six major studios were evenly split between support of the two rival formats.

After Thursday, NBC Universal is the only company that has said it will release films in the HD DVD format only. None of the three early backers of Blu-ray, including The Walt Disney Co., have said they will release their films in HD DVD.

Warner Bros. said it decided to join the Blu-ray board after becoming convinced that a costly and confusing format war (search) could not be avoided. "We think there will be a format war," said Jim Cardwell, president of Warner Home Video. "We are going to put our product on for consumers on both formats," said Marsha King, executive vice president of New Business Development at Warner Home Video. "The market will decide if the functionality, if the price, if the consumer offering is what they want."

But Disney and Twentieth Century Fox hailed the Warner Bros. announcement Thursday, saying it would strengthen Blu-ray and avoid a costly competition.

"The continued dramatic momentum toward Blu-ray makes us more optimistic than ever that a format war can be avoided," said Bob Chapek, president of Buena Vista Home Entertainment.

Warner Bros. said that by joining the Blu-ray Disc Association, it could more strongly influence the cost of making the discs and consumer features, including the ability to copy DVDs onto a home network.

But if both formats hit the market early next year as planned, consumers may avoid high definition DVD for years, delaying the adoption of either format and ultimately hurting the studios, which make the majority of their profit from the sale of home video.

In a statement late Thursday, Toshiba said Warner Bros.' decision to join the Blu-ray group "represents the studio's understandable commitment to listen to a broad array of opinions and to continue to make technical evaluations of each format, and we are more than confident this will not affect timely introduction of HD DVD content to the market."

A study released Wednesday by Forrester Research concluded that the Blu-ray format will win, but that unless the rival HD DVD group abandons the field, it will be at least two years before consumers feel comfortable enough to buy a new format DVD player.

"The war between Betamax (search) and VHS (search) trained a generation of consumers to be wary of competing formats," the Forrester report said. "So, until a winner is very clear, only the most adventurous movie lovers will invest in high definition DVD players and discs."

Sony has said it will put Blu-ray discs on its PlayStation 3 (search) game console, a move that will potentially get the new format into thousands of homes.

Microsoft Corp., which backs HD DVD, has not said if its new XBox (search) game console will support the HD DVD format.

[Cooldude]

Can someone post the technical differences between the two formats. It would be good to know what each has to offer.

Earlier it seemed that the HD DVD format would eventually win the battle. But the Blue Ray seems to be the clear winner. Below are the FAQ on HD DVD vs Blu-ray



FAQ: HD DVD vs. Blu-ray (http://news.com.com/FAQ+HD+DVD+vs.+Blu-ray/2100-1041_3-5886956.html)

Did HD DVD win the battle now that Microsoft and Intel voted in its favor?

No. Blu-ray has a formidable list of allies, and instead of lining up behind HD DVD, they offered a swift rebuttal. "I think things are more cloudy now for HD DVD than they were five days before," said Envisioneering analyst Richard Doherty. "I think this is probably going to cause some reflection at Microsoft."

Who's on each side?

Toshiba leads the HD DVD consortium, which also includes consumer electronics manufacturers Sanyo and NEC. Entertainment companies on board are HBO, New Line Cinema, Paramount Home Entertainment, Universal Studios Home Entertainment and Warner Home Video.

Blu-ray's consumer electronics list is longer, with Sony, Panasonic, Philips, Samsung, Sharp, Pioneer and LG Electronics. PC makers that support it are Dell, HP and Apple Computer. Also on board are video game maker Electronic Arts and entertainment companies Twentieth Century Fox, Vivendi Universal and Walt Disney.

What are HD DVD and Blu-Ray Disc?

Today's conventional DVDs can hold 4.7GB of information, but many want a higher-capacity successor to accommodate the larger data demands of high-definition video. HD DVD and Blu-ray both use blue lasers to read and write data; because blue has a shorter wavelength than the red used in DVD and CD lasers, information can be packed more densely on a disc and a single disc can hold more. Both HD DVD and Blu-ray drives are able to read current-generation DVDs.

It's no surprise why manufacturers want part of the industry. DVD player shipments, including next-generation models, will diminish from 113 million this year to 78 million in 2009, offset by a DVD recorder increase from 17 million this year to 74 million in 2009, said iSupply analyst Chris Crotty.

What are the differences between Blu-ray and HD DVD?

Each next-generation DVD format comes in single-layer and dual-layer formats. For HD DVD, that means capacities of 15GB and 30GB; for Blu-ray, it's 25GB and 50GB. Toshiba earlier expected HD DVD to arrive this year, but now the company plans to launch products worldwide in the first quarter of 2006. That's about the same time as the spring launch of Blu-ray, eliminating the early debut advantage. Blu-ray uses Sun Microsystems' Java software for built-in interactive features, whereas HD DVD uses a technology called iHD that Microsoft and Toshiba have worked on.

Why did Microsoft and Intel side with HD DVD?

The companies cited several reasons for their decision. They said the 50GB version of Blu-ray was "nowhere in sight," giving the 30GB HD DVD the capacity advantage for the time being. They also said HD DVD guarantees a feature they want, "managed copy," which lets a computer user copy a movie to a computer hard drive so it can be beamed around the house. The iHD software offers "greater interactivity," for example, letting a small screen with a movie director be overlaid onto the main video screen. HD DVD manufacturing is easier than for Blu-ray's BD-ROM, and its "hybrid disk" feature will mean an owner of today's DVD player will be able to buy a dual-format disk that can be played in tomorrow's HD DVD player.

What was Blu-ray's response?

In short, hogwash. They say the 50GB discs will arrive with no trouble in the spring, that HD DVD has no advantage in the managed copy area, and it has a hybrid disk technology as well. Neither side is winning the debate: "There are so many charges from both sides that it's very difficult to discern reality from propaganda," Crotty said.

What problems does the split cause?

Plenty. Consumers must gamble that investments in disc players and video collections are in a format that will prevail. And they'll be more cautious embracing digital entertainment technology: "You have to allow consumers to build their digital home over a very long time--a decade. You can't have this fiddle-faddle with standards," said Endpoint Technology Associates analyst Roger Kay.

Studios and video rental stores must either maintain duplicate inventory for the two formats or worry that one format might not have all the content consumers want. Electronics retailers have to explain the different standards. And the industry overall is faced with a more sluggish arrival of the next-generation technology at the same time other alternatives develop--including content that's downloaded directly or that's recorded onto hard drives built into set-top boxes and personal video records, Crotty said.

Can the two sides get together?

It's conceivable. Doherty observes that it took 18 months of struggle before two disputing factions--Super Disc and Multimedia CD--managed to compromise on a unified standard that became DVD, and the standard was the better for it. But at this late date, few see cooperation as likely. It's quite possible there could be no single victor, as happened with the rewritable disc standards DVD-RW and DVD+RW, both of which are used in the market. In that case, it's likely drive and player makers will build dual-format drives, a move Samsung has said it will make if no unification occurs.

[style bhai]

just wait till PS3 comes into the market, thats going to change a lot of rules.
Sony's Blueray is far advanced technology than the HD-DVD(which i think is a patched up DVD with a higher data). BTW does any one know that the maximum number of layers in a HD-DVD can be 4 where as in Blue Ray can be 8. thats like 3 times more data than HD-DVD.
And with every BLUE-RAY disks, one would get the movie version for video IPOD too, thats whats called "sone pe suhaga"(did i say it right????)

[Sane Less]

just wait till PS3 comes into the market, thats going to change a lot of rules.
Sony's Blueray is far advanced technology than the HD-DVD(which i think is a patched up DVD with a higher data). BTW does any one know that the maximum number of layers in a HD-DVD can be 4 where as in Blue Ray can be 8. thats like 3 times more data than HD-DVD.
And with every BLUE-RAY disks, one would get the movie version for video IPOD too, thats whats called "sone pe suhaga"(did i say it right????)

4 layers in HD and 8 layers in BR then how come 3 times... yeh baat kuch hum ko samjha nahi... but then kya kare... LLKC jo tahre :(

And the correct saying is "suhagan pe sona" :D

[echarcha]

VHS won over Betamax because the major movie studios decided to release on VHS. Thought Betamax was superior (resolution), Sony lost as it could not convince studios to release on Betamax.

Also the new DVD format will take a long time to be popular as people are not going to go and buy new players just because the technology is out there. Only when Chinese made DVD players came into the market at Wal Mart prices, did DVD become a very common household item.

[Cooldude]

OK. Toshiba has backed out. Conceded defeat. The victor is Sony's Blue-Ray. :up:



Toshiba to give up on HD DVD, end format war: source

TOKYO (Reuters) - Toshiba Corp is planning to give up on its HD DVD format for high-definition video, conceding defeat to the competing Blu-Ray technology backed by Sony Corp, a company source said on Saturday.

Japanese public broadcaster NHK had earlier reported that Toshiba would suffer losses in the tens of billions of yen (hundreds of millions of dollars) as it scrapped production of HD DVD players and recorders and took other steps to exit the business.

The company source told Reuters that Toshiba was in the final stages of planning to exit the HD DVD business and that an official decision would be made soon.

Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080216/tc_nm/toshiba_hd_dvd_exit_dc_2;_ylt=Apdnev4VJnh68dVJrqhvJL90eHcV)

[Sane Less]

OK. Toshiba has backed out. Conceded defeat. The victor is Sony's Blue-Ray. :up:

phew... at last. Now we can go and buy those blue-rays and PS3s:D

[echarcha]

Sony is very smart. Over the years they diversified and invested in buying up movie studios in Hollywood and elsewhere. So they owned the 'software' which would now go out on their Blue Ray 'hardware'.

Toshiba, MIcrosoft and others have no software to releae on their HD-DVD format.

So whether Blue Ray is technically superior or not is not the moot point, its who has 'software' to release on these disks.

[style bhai]

Sony is very smart. Over the years they diversified and invested in buying up movie studios in Hollywood and elsewhere. So they owned the 'software' which would now go out on their Blue Ray 'hardware'.

Toshiba, MIcrosoft and others have no software to releae on their HD-DVD format.

So whether Blue Ray is technically superior or not is not the moot point, its who has 'software' to release on these disks.
I said it long ago that Sony is going to win:angel: , as for HD-DVD :shoot:

Sony lost its beta max to vhs, thats when they knew the value of having a movie studio by the side when u are going into the market with a new format.
I would say sony did its home work much ahead of time and the fact that they lost valuable time waiting for the blue laser to be manufactured so that they can come out with PS3(they did loose some market in the mean time to xbox-360), shows how committed sony was to blue-ray.

[echarcha]

I said it long ago that Sony is going to win:angel: , as for HD-DVD :shoot:

Sony lost its beta max to vhs, thats when they knew the value of having a movie studio by the side when u are going into the market with a new format.
I would say sony did its home work much ahead of time and the fact that they lost valuable time waiting for the blue laser to be manufactured so that they can come out with PS3(they did loose some market in the mean time to xbox-360), shows how committed sony was to blue-ray.

Yes, I forgot to mention the BetaMax versus VHS battle which Sony lost.

Today, the format for all video based production like TV Soaps, News, etc, is done on Sony's BETA and Digi-BETA formats only. This used to be a domain which JVC used to dominate, but SONY pushed them out after U-Matic format became inadequate for resolution. Another American company Ampex used to make a better format for digital video, but Sony beat them there too. Disney used to do their digital archival on Ampex, but guess what, soon Sony bought half the studios in Hollywood and today Sony dominates.

Nothing bad I say, because Sony had the vision and cunning to think of things 10 years in advance.

[style bhai]

Yes, I forgot to mention the BetaMax versus VHS battle which Sony lost.

Today, the format for all video based production like TV Soaps, News, etc, is done on Sony's BETA and Digi-BETA formats only. This used to be a domain which JVC used to dominate, but SONY pushed them out after U-Matic format became inadequate for resolution. Another American company Ampex used to make a better format for digital video, but Sony beat them there too. Disney used to do their digital archival on Ampex, but guess what, soon Sony bought half the studios in Hollywood and today Sony dominates.

Nothing bad I say, because Sony had the vision and cunning to think of things 10 years in advance.
thanks for the inside information, never knew it. Anyways sony is a behemoth that is very hard to beat.
As far as toshiba is concerned, its better if they wave a white flag as early as possible(Asking some monetary compensation from sony for the same, i am sure sony would oblige)

[echarcha]

thanks for the inside information, never knew it. Anyways sony is a behemoth that is very hard to beat.
As far as toshiba is concerned, its better if they wave a white flag as early as possible(Asking some monetary compensation from sony for the same, i am sure sony would oblige)

The same with gaming consoles. Remember a few years ago when SEGA was going to come up with a console which would put XBOX and Sony into serious trouble? Well, SEGA did launch their console but had very few games on it. Soon SEGA just gave up and Sony took the lead. Look at gaming companies and check out who has a big investment in them? ;)

Even on the internet, I applaud Adobe for coming up first with Adobe Acrobat which is the defacto standard. Microsoft was busy burying Java and fighting with Sun and Netscape and Adobe took the lead. Today Microsoft has the Microsoft Digital Imaging format .mdi which is like Adobe but it sucks because not everyone can have the whole goddamned Office 200x suite to open the document. Adobe is much more available.

Also Macromedia was clever to focus on Flash as the next best technology for interactive content on the web. Microsoft kept focussing on ActiveX and Internet Explorer, never thinking of other platforms. Macromedia Flash is also like ActiveX but works on most OS like Mac OS and Linux too. Today Microsoft has come up with SilverLight which runs on all platforms, but its again a case of closing the barn door after the horse has left.

Adobe was again sharp in acquiring Macromedia and creating one suite of products which are most used on the internet - Flash and Adobe PDF. Kudos!!

Well, I am waiting for the day when a real good alternative to MS Office comes up in the market. No, I am not impressed with OpenOffice and OpenThis&That and all that Jazz. MS Office is still something I would bet my most important and official documents with. Same goes for Powerpoint slides. MS Office still rules in the business world.

Apple used to push the envelope and they still do, but now they are into gadgets and widgets and not so much so into OS only. They even changed their name from Apple Computer Inc to just Apple Inc. This clearly indicates that Apple is shifting its focus from being just a computer company. Good move :up:

[smellyfinger]

Itne saalo se soch raha tha ki LD lene ka ya DVD. Finally made up my mind to buy a DVD player - now we have to switch again?

Yeh Blue Ray kis chidiya ka naam hai - NeelKiran?

[TerminatorJR]

Photo chipkaoing.
Link (http://www.dbtechno.com/industry/2008/02/19/toshiba-officially-announces-end-of-hd-dvd/)

[echarcha]

Itne saalo se soch raha tha ki LD lene ka ya DVD. Finally made up my mind to buy a DVD player - now we have to switch again?

Yeh Blue Ray kis chidiya ka naam hai - NeelKiran?

I have dabbled in MPEG technology long ago when MPEG1 and MPEG2 were still in the cradle. Basically, Blue Ray or HD-DVD means different ways to compress and record data on a disk. The underlying theme for these compressions is still MPEG based and is always lossful compression. Its never lossless compression.

It so happens that companies like SONY, Toshiba, etc. have a stake in how the standards shape up because they have hardware to sell - Disc readers, writers, etc. So each company tries to come up with something they feel is better and most suitable. They form alliances with software and other vendors and come up with a solution. Then the competing folks duke it out in a standards committee. Finally one standard with enough compromises on both sides emerges.

A great example was the DIVX versus DVD format. DIVX was technically superior and you can see the proof if you download any adult movies which are compressed in DIVX format. However DIVX format lost because the morons who marketed DIVX (this includes movie studios) made it such that the DIVX player would have to be hooked on to a phone line. This would allow a central server to control the number of views or days you could use the disc. The studios were scared that people would just copy their content or pass it on freely. They wanted a tightly controlled pay-per-view kind of situation. Well, it turned out that people dont want to rent a disc and then jump hoops to just view it! So DVD (MPEG-2) format won and DIVX (based on MPEG) lost.

So today you have Blue Ray from Sony. It will remain for next 5 to 10 years depending on how much content is made available. But DVD wont go away for a long time because DVDs made it possible for people to buy their own sets of movies and build a collection. I dont think Sony is stupid to think that you will throw away your DVDs just for Blue Ray. So you will see Blue Ray players which allow DVDs to be played too.

And as I always believe - dont be the first to buy a Blue Ray as yet. Let the dust settle and lets wait for more players to come out in the market.