Would you join US army during war with India

[dhurandhar]

Thanks to KingFisher...a new poll idea is now presented. Hopefully this will be like opening proverbial can of worms....and help change our thinking about Muslims Indian citizens.

ASSUME: You are a US citizen

As an Indian HINDU.....What would YOU do if you are asked to serve in US army/navy/airforce as a combatant against war with India?

I will pose more poignant questions after some poll results or posts

[dhurandhar]

Thanks to KingFisher...a new poll idea is now presented. Hopefully this will be like opening proverbial can of worms....and help change our thinking about Muslims Indian citizens.

As an Indian HINDU.....What would YOU do if you are asked to serve in US army/navy/airforce as a combatant against war with India?

I will pose more poignant questions after some poll results or posts

I have made this poll public....so that everybody can see the results:D

[vyomkeshsaxena]

again......wherez the poll??

[dhurandhar]

again......wherez the poll??

what?? can't you see one on this thread....I have voted the first option as a start...:D

[vyomkeshsaxena]

okz...now its in place....

[vyomkeshsaxena]

i wont participate coz i cannot kill my own people (from any religion).....

even though i may be a US citizen.....but then the decision to take up citizenship has nothing to do with me being emotionally attached to the country or itz people...i tuk citizenship for $$ and to lead a comfortable life....:o

rest later....

[vakil sahib]

i cannot imagine any circumstances under which an attack on india by the USA or Europe would be justified. of course if india was to be taken over mughal style and the US attacked to free it from oppression, thing would be different :D

i would not be a party to an attack on india under any circumstances. i would give up my citizenship, sell my house, car, practice and move to india lock, stock and barrell.

the same would go if my son was asked to fight against india. i would remove him to india ASAP. i would even break the law and try to smuggle him out of the country if the need ever arose.

being a citizen of the US or Britain does not mean that all allegiances with your motherland have to be cut. you owe allegiances to your new country but being asked to attack your motherland is a bit too much.

i would like to pose a side question here, if i may. most of us here will say that they will not join the army to attack india. but if the US or europe made the decision to attack india would you silently sit by and let it happen? after all your tax will have contributed to the fighting fund for the government in question. would you oppose passively( by going on marches, etc)?

or would you leave the country and return to india? i would like to think that my answer would be the same whether i was asked to participate in the attack or not.

[dhurandhar]

To answer Vyomi and Kil pai's post:

Guys, now what is the difference between you and the passive Muslims? Muslims are accused of having the same mentality and constantly we end up berating them for that. But aren't your thoughts guilty of the same?

I am waiting for the poll options of those folks who profess to wipe out pakistan....will they want to nuke Bombay if that is in the US's best interest?

So can we really blame some Muslims to side with Islam rather than with nationality when some Hindus think the same?

PADHU....I am waiting for your post...you have chosen the last option...kindly post your reasons for this option:D

[dhurandhar]

[QUOTE=vakil sahib]

i would like to pose a side question here, if i may.[/ QUOTE]

Sorry Kil pai....I am afraid this time you may not for fear of derailing the thread...I would be eager to participate in a new thread if you will:D

[Desi24]

I am a US citizen and here is my viewpoint.

This is a very tough question Dhurru. My national alienation is towards the US but my culture heritage lies in India. A lot of my family still resides in India so a war could take lives from my family.

I think my stance is that I won't take arms against India but I would help US in other capacities.

[dhurandhar]

I am a US citizen and here is my viewpoint.

This is a very tough question Dhurru. My national alienation is towards the US but my culture heritage lies in India. A lot of my family still resides in India so a war could take lives from my family.

I think my stance is that I won't take arms against India but I would help US in other capacities.

Why would you not take up arms?

If you are not going to take up arms, do you think you are justified in criticizing Muslims for not being tough enough on terror? Do you think a Paki or a Palestinian will not flinch before thinking of nuking and destroying their cultural heritage?

[DesiBaba]

this is 1 q i've never been able to answer..and i've asked this exact same q a lotta tymes to a lotta people..
and although people pound on they chest and say without hesitation that we will go back to India, i dont believe them..in mah mind i m lyke ya right..freakin houses yall have out here, kids in schools, GC blah blah..yall aint neva gon leave..especially a particular community that even has a prob wit tha national language of our country :rolleyes: but i dont wanna rake out any old issues..

i dont have an answer to this question..but i would say that i would go wherever mah parents are at that point in tyme..

[echarcha]

One has to think about all situations and possible scenarios before relinquishing Indian citizenship. This is a good question. It should surely figure in your mind before taking up US citizenship.

I dont have an answer right now as I am not in this situation.

[dhurandhar]

this is 1 q i've never been able to answer..and i've asked this exact same q a lotta tymes to a lotta people..
and although people pound on they chest and say without hesitation that we will go back to India, i dont believe them..in mah mind i m lyke ya right..freakin houses yall have out here, kids in schools, GC blah blah..yall aint neva gon leave..especially a particular community that even has a prob wit tha national language of our country :rolleyes: but i dont wanna rake out any old issues..

i dont have an answer to this question..but i would say that i would go wherever mah parents are at that point in tyme..

your post is respected....just vote last option...but please vote:D

[dhurandhar]

One has to think about all situations and possible scenarios before relinquishing Indian citizenship. This is a good question. It should surely figure in your mind before taking up US citizenship.

I dont have an answer right now as I am not in this situation.

Smart way to avoid this poll and thread....but the real intent behind this thread/poll is to put yourself in shoes of those Palestinians and Arabs who hold their culture (however repulsive that may be to us) dear and would not want to see their culture and cultural centres being destroyed by war:D

At the same time one must feel a sense of immense respect towards those Muslims who are still serving the US army and other non Muslim armies:D

[Desi24]

Why would you not take up arms?

If you are not going to take up arms, do you think you are justified in criticizing Muslims for not being tough enough on terror? Do you think a Paki or a Palestinian will not flinch before thinking of nuking and destroying their cultural heritage?

For me not taking up arms is more because a lot of my family lives there and there is no way I would be able to hurt them. If not for them, I think I could take up arms but I would have to be unequivically and categorically convinced that India was in the wrong when it came to this war.


Great thread btw....finally a question that makes people really think :up:

[dhurandhar]

For me not taking up arms is more because a lot of my family lives there and there is no way I would be able to hurt them. If not for them, I think I could take up arms but I would have to be unequivically and categorically convinced that India was in the wrong when it came to this war.


Great thread btw....finally a question that makes people really think :up:

Thanks for the encouraging response.

But as Krishna points out, do your duty.....so just as Arjun slew his relatives after being advised by Krishna...so can any true Hindu in US army coolly nuke India if needs be:D

[Desi24]

Thanks for the encouraging response.

But as Krishna points out, do your duty.....so just as Arjun slew his relatives after being advised by Krishna...so can any true Hindu in US army coolly nuke India if needs be:D

You are right that in fact if I was a true Hindu, I would be able to kill my relatives if I thought they were supporting evil. But I am nowhere close to that level of enlightenment. I am fully engulfed in the shackles of emotion.

[Zorro]

Some conditions apply:
1. If India was being ruled by an evil dictator (in other words, if I think that the war is justified), I would have no problem fighting against my motherland.

2. If the war is questionable, I would not fight against India, but if given the option I would still like to remain a law abiding citizen of the US

3. If the US is the evil dictator or an aggressor fighting an unjustified war, then I would move back to India and fight with Indians.

Its not as cut and dry as you make it out to be.

[padhu]

PADHU....I am waiting for your post...you have chosen the last option...kindly post your reasons for this option:D

Dhuru, I am waiting for others to post before I post my opinion. Wanna hear how people react to this excellent thread here.

[dhurandhar]

Some conditions apply:
1. If India was being ruled by an evil dictator (in other words, if I think that the war is justified), I would have no problem fighting against my motherland.

2. If the war is questionable, I would not fight against India, but if given the option I would still like to remain a law abiding citizen of the US

3. If the US is the evil dictator or an aggressor fighting an unjustified war, then I would move back to India and fight with Indians.

Its not as cut and dry as you make it out to be.

1. & 3. : How do you reach that conclusion? For no. 3, would you not be acting like a Vibhishan then? What if you are branded a terrorist by US and other western allies?:D

2. Does that mean you will prefer to go to jail than go fight?

I know....its not meant to be cut and dry...its quite a dilemma for most people.

[dhurandhar]

Some conditions apply:
1. If India was being ruled by an evil dictator (in other words, if I think that the war is justified), I would have no problem fighting against my motherland.

2. If the war is questionable, I would not fight against India, but if given the option I would still like to remain a law abiding citizen of the US

3. If the US is the evil dictator or an aggressor fighting an unjustified war, then I would move back to India and fight with Indians.

Its not as cut and dry as you make it out to be.

First, I must thank you for daring to post on this thread...as can be seen some have just tried to avoid it or put forth answers to circumvent this issue:D

1. & 3. : How do you reach that conclusion? For no. 3, would you not be acting like a Vibhishan then? What if you are branded a terrorist by US and other western allies?:D

2. Does that mean you will prefer to go to jail than go fight?

I know....its not meant to be cut and dry...its quite a dilemma for most people.

[Suhasini]

Dear Dhurudar:

Please dont mind. But war doesnt solve ay probelms. Only peace does.

You need to meet with a Priest immediately else you too will follow the same path of the devil like the people who are responsible for the london bombings.

I have a very important question. Does your religion preach all this?

I was recently in phillipines . Over there I met a lot of chritain peace loving people who were talking to me and asking me if Islam teaches to kill people. I had no answer to it.

How can I talk of a religion I dont know anything about.

Dont talk about destruction. I know it is something innate to you and your brothers. But you have to find a solution to end it.

Praise the Lord.

May Jesus help you.

Amen

Sister Suhasini

[dhurandhar]

Dear Dhurudar:

Please dont mind. But war doesnt solve ay probelms. Only peace does.

You need to meet with a Priest immediately else you too will follow the same path of the devil like the people who are responsible for the london bombings.

I have a very important question. Does your religion preach all this?

I was recently in phillipines . Over there I met a lot of chritain peace loving people who were talking to me and asking me if Islam teaches to kill people. I had no answer to it.

How can I talk of a religion I dont know anything about.

Dont talk about destruction. I know it is something innate to you and your brothers. But you have to find a solution to end it.

Praise the Lord.

May Jesus help you.

Amen

Sister Suhasini

susu...what makes you think I am a Muslim???:confused::D

don't forget that christians inflicted Inquisition on jews....a terrible atrocity that is usually swept under the carpet:D:D

[dirty]

If I am an US citizen than yes I would join US.

[dhurandhar]

If I am an US citizen than yes I would join US.

please vote the first option:D

[desichacha]

Dhuru,

Let me remind you difference between Muslims and other religions and communities and in the context u are trying to justify their actions..

Muslims have religious ideology beyond country ties..now this is very dangerous point...this is how that shit head mohamed made sure that he can rule all over the world..where every other person failed.. he realized that if he can make people loyal across borders then he can one day have whole world...


Most of hte people are trying to reply to the call of the nation..

most of the muslims try to reply to the call of the religious ideology..

We are born in a particular land and have ties.. religion is sommething we learn.. we have sometimes no control on our inborn emotions but religions.. we have learnt and we should be able to control it

[vyomkeshsaxena]

To answer Vyomi and Kil pai's post:

Guys, now what is the difference between you and the passive Muslims? Muslims are accused of having the same mentality and constantly we end up berating them for that. But aren't your thoughts guilty of the same?

I am waiting for the poll options of those folks who profess to wipe out pakistan....will they want to nuke Bombay if that is in the US's best interest?

So can we really blame some Muslims to side with Islam rather than with nationality when some Hindus think the same?

PADHU....I am waiting for your post...you have chosen the last option...kindly post your reasons for this option:D

i still dint get the conclusions u derived from kils and my post!! post ur observations clearly so that i can defend my stand :)

you were too fast in deriving conclusions which i must say are inconclusive!! I have answers to some of ur observations but it will be better if u write clearly what u stuff u derived from my (or others) posts and what u r trying to prove ;)

[dhurandhar]

Dhuru,

Let me remind you difference between Muslims and other religions and communities and in the context u are trying to justify their actions..

Muslims have religious ideology beyond country ties..now this is very dangerous point...this is how that shit head mohamed made sure that he can rule all over the world..where every other person failed.. he realized that if he can make people loyal across borders then he can one day have whole world...


Most of hte people are trying to reply to the call of the nation..

most of the muslims try to reply to the call of the religious ideology..

We are born in a particular land and have ties.. religion is sommething we learn.. we have sometimes no control on our inborn emotions but religions.. we have learnt and we should be able to control it

but each of those muslims has a cultural bond with his ethnic origin...for example a muslim paki feels strongly about Pakistan but not as strongly about Palestine. Pakis are not Arabs and it is common knowledge that Arabs despise Pakis and Turks.

So, I am not justifying terrorism nor offering sympathies to those Muslims supporting terrorism....but when Muslims from Palestine feel strongly about Palestinian issues one should understand that it is natural for Arabs to feel that way. Note that all of middle east is bonded by a common language, Arabic....unlike Turkey/Iran and Pakistan:D. So, one needs to identify the Muslim dilemma and not lump all Muslims as terrorists because of their "not enough" support against US invasion in Iraq or elsewhere:D

The purpose of this poll was to put some echans in virtual quandary that some Muslims are facing in real world.

[dhurandhar]

i wont participate coz i cannot kill my own people (from any religion).....

even though i may be a US citizen.....but then the decision to take up citizenship has nothing to do with me being emotionally attached to the country or itz people...i tuk citizenship for $$ and to lead a comfortable life....:o
rest later....

You clearly come across as an opportunisitic traitor as a US Citizen and should be tortured and then killed:D

Probably you don't know what do you have to pledge before you take up citizenship...you pledge that your loyalty to US constitution comes above everything else...blah blah blah..so HELP ME GOD:D

[vyomkeshsaxena]

:D

dekh yaar...these are the feelings of every person here who has or will be taking US citizenship...maine bol di!! thats it!!

btw iem still awaiting reply for my last post....

[dhurandhar]

:D

dekh yaar...these are the feelings of every person here who has or will be taking US citizenship...maine bol di!! thats it!!

btw iem still awaiting reply for my last post....

i think i just answered your recent question by quoting to your first relevant post...please read all my posts and ask me specific questions that you may have...your question is not clear to me:D

[dhurandhar]

:D

dekh yaar...these are the feelings of every person here who has or will be taking US citizenship...maine bol di!! thats it!!

btw iem still awaiting reply for my last post....

I find such feeling despicable......no wonder CIA thinks lowly of loyalty from Indians:D

[Desi24]

:D

dekh yaar...these are the feelings of every person here who has or will be taking US citizenship...maine bol di!! thats it!!

btw iem still awaiting reply for my last post....

That's not true Vyom. Just because you took the oath but are just a opportunist at heart doesn't mean that everyone is like you too. :down:

I am sure you are a law abiding citizen and all but these kind of remarks don't show honor. Just my 2 cents.

[vyomkeshsaxena]

actually iem still confused why hinduism is being dragged or any conclusions pointing to people not attacking fellas from same religion

stop posing questions to me and give a me a small gist of what u trying to say...so far...iem not able to understand or draw any conclusions from ur posts...if u want me to hear from me again on this thread (which i feel is interesting but inconclusive ) then u need to explain me ur observations :)

[Zorro]

First, I must thank you for daring to post on this thread...as can be seen some have just tried to avoid it or put forth answers to circumvent this issue:D

1. & 3. : How do you reach that conclusion? For no. 3, would you not be acting like a Vibhishan then? What if you are branded a terrorist by US and other western allies?:D

My own conscience (sp?) and news from my family back home will help me reach my conclusion. If the US is an evil dictator then I would know because I would feel some effect being a US citizen. If India is an evil dictator then too I would know because my extended family would feel the effect. I hope you get what I am trying to say? In the end we all want to live peacefully under a non-oppressive regime with the type of freedom generally available under a benevolent democracy. If at any time freedom is absent, then you can be categorized either being with the rulers or among the oppressed. My assumption is that any time the freedom is absent, we are part of the oppressed. If I have to fight to get rid of that oppression, I would do it, be it against India (motherland) or against the US (adopted country).

Sorry, I don't know who Vibhishan is.

2. Does that mean you will prefer to go to jail than go fight?

If I have to go to jail, it means that the freedom of being in a democracy is absent and I would rather give up my citizenship and move to Canada ;)

I know....its not meant to be cut and dry...its quite a dilemma for most people.

WTF, The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters!!

[vyomkeshsaxena]

That's not true Vyom. Just because you took the oath but are just a opportunist at heart doesn't mean that everyone is like you too. :down:

I am sure you are a law abiding citizen and all but these kind of remarks don't show honor. Just my 2 cents.

yaar desi...i understand what u r saying...i was having a side-by-side convo with an EC'an rite now who is in US and i was saying to him that itz almost impossible for a guy like me to settle in any country permanently...for me itz earn and come back!! thinking of taking residentship is something that i cannot imagine!! I have all it takes to come to US for further studies and job (after some job experience here) and my dad is pushing me real hard for same...but iem simply not interested... :o

so my feelings are quite obvious afa citizenship is concerned! and reg oath and stuff...i dont follow double standards...i dunno how many of u really struck to the oath u used to take in school daily....i still need to come across people who remember or respect their national anthem or preamble in their full flavour....and reg opportunity n stuff....everything aside....if the question comes to me being empoyed to work against my motherland...then iem not such a person who will pledge my services to my new country of residence ( remember itz not new motherland) especially when i wont get all the rights that a normal citizen wud get even when i have taken up citizenship ( for eg..i cannot run for president's post)....:o

anyways...i know what iem in personal life...but my feelings towards people who move to US remains same....itz $$ and easy living...even if they r citizens... law-abiding citizens and have respect for everything abt the country but still reality is that any decent person wont work 'directly' against his motherland even if that means deportment!

[b]just wondering....if u r employed in a pharmaceutical company and u have a been given duty to test some drugs on volunteers...itz a new drug....u dunno itz side-effects...and seems like ur family members are unfortunate enuff to be vounteers..itz all upto u to administer the drug...will u do it?? wont u think twice?? feelings of the loyalty towards ur company for position and pay is more important or well-being of ur family!!! you may have signed papers that u will do ur job without any preudices or reservations...but wont u try ur max to c to it that ur family is not made guinea pig :rolleyes:

questions:

1.why did u move to usa?? (better pay..life...doesnt that make u opportunist?)
2. why did u opt for GC? ( u were tired about job insecurity...fear of deportment after expiry of contract or thrown out of company...fear of returning n living in india for less pay n stuff...GC insured u can stay in US after having recd pink slip and look for new job...ur married life was more secure now...doesnt that make u opportunist)
3. why did u take US citizenship ( better pay..easy living...or u think US is greater and virtuous than ur motherland n u respect it more that ur originial country of residence)
4. what makes u stay away from ur parents..people and country ( $$..easy living or u think US recognises and respect ur talent more than ur home country)

wud love desi to answer this question!! and plz dont mind my language or way of putting my views. I understand ur real intentions when u wrote ur post but then someone i cannot digest why people, after moving out, are more patriotic towards their new place of residence! oath is now oath to them...what oaths/pledges they tuk in india was just another piece of crap.....whatever....;)

sirji...dont talk abt shallow principles .....even a doctor teaches that a patient is just a diseased body for them and getting emotional will affect their judgement in diagnosis...but imagine a father operating upon his son/daughter...dont u think he will be the same doctor who operated upon other people without any fears or sentiments (say)

[dhurandhar]

actually iem still confused why hinduism is being dragged or any conclusions pointing to people not attacking fellas from same religion

stop posing questions to me and give a me a small gist of what u trying to say...so far...iem not able to understand or draw any conclusions from ur posts...if u want me to hear from me again on this thread (which i feel is interesting but inconclusive ) then u need to explain me ur observations :)

I am trying to counter the claims that Muslims are not doing enough for war on terror...that Paki/Arab Muslims are terrorists and so forth. So, by means of this thread I am trying to illustrate the dilemma some decent Paki and Arab Muslims might be facing in US and UK.

If some hindu echans cannot think of attacking India how can the same be expected of muslim citizens of US and UK who were born in their countries of origin?:D

[vyomkeshsaxena]

k..dhurru...now i got u!!

willl post my reply tomorrow morn after some thinking ..FYI i said in my post..not attacking my people (any religion)...so itz not question of me being hindu and deciding whether to attack or not to attack india....

anyways edited my above post.....

[Suhasini]

Dhurandur is one the many people who love to spread hatred. Kill people. See people suffer before they die.

I personally feel that the devil has taken control over such people.

Dhurandor please change your faith immediately or esle it will be too late.

Amen

Sister Suhasini

[dhurandhar]

Dhurandur is one the many people who love to spread hatred. Kill people. See people suffer before they die.

I personally feel that the devil has taken control over such people.

Dhurandor please change your faith immediately or esle it will be too late.

Amen

Sister Suhasini

I have changed my faith already.....I have no faith in any religion:D

[tantric_yogi]

Dhurenderbhai, because you have in your posts in this thread mentioned Muslim support for terrorists ...

If Indian Hindus ever turned butchers ... went around the world ... terrorizing and killing innocent men, women and children in the name of my Hindu Gods ... I wont hesitate for a moment in joining US army to bomb the moherfo(kers to hell.

That's about it.

[Robert]

Dhurenderbhai, because you have in your posts in this thread mentioned Muslim support for terrorists ...

If Indian Hindus ever turned butchers ... went around the world ... terrorizing and killing innocent men, women and children in the name of my Hindu Gods ... I wont hesitate for a moment in joining US army to bomb the moherfo(kers to hell.

That's about it.


NO, NO, NO. If u r a true patriot citizen, your loyality should be unconditional. Dont put conditions, just join the crusade.

[dhurandhar]

Dhurenderbhai, because you have in your posts in this thread mentioned Muslim support for terrorists ...

If Indian Hindus ever turned butchers ... went around the world ... terrorizing and killing innocent men, women and children in the name of my Hindu Gods ... I wont hesitate for a moment in joining US army to bomb the moherfo(kers to hell.

That's about it.

Thx tantu...your vote and post are appreciated:D

Notable echans who have refrained from posting/voting:

Indian
Kingfisher
Amthalal
Charchila
Terminator
Dawizard
Cooldude
Napolean
Viking
UMA
GpeL
SmellyFinger
Budmaas
Charminar
Nayasavera
SimpleHuman

I wonder why...has it something to do with losing their balls?

[dhurandhar]

NO, NO, NO. If u r a true patriot citizen, your loyality should be unconditional. Dont put conditions, just join the crusade.

Raabert....please vote:D

[Robert]

People are running away from this thread. when truth bites, people run.

[Robert]

Raabert....please vote:D

khush, de diya vote. ab reason bhee batana parey ga kya?

[AmthaLal]

Are yaar thodaa bizi thaa....


BTW...all these time I guessed you ARE UMA. :D (the way UMA writes, I mean almost same lingo and same smily use..... :D )

I voted yes. Because its a moral duty of a citizen.

I did not get the citizenship just to file petition for my relatives, so they can come here. As a fact of matter I don't have anybody left back in India who can apply for visa on blood relation-ship. I do have lots of relatives but cousines and etc...

I did understood the duties of a citizen before becoming one. So I will obey them.

I don't want to give up my citizenship and move back to India for this reason.

BTW...chances of me being drafted are very slim just like US going to war against India. ;)

[dhurandhar]

Are yaar thodaa bizi thaa....


BTW...all these time I guessed you ARE UMA. :D (the way UMA writes, I mean almost same lingo and same smily use..... :D )

I voted yes. Because its a moral duty of a citizen.

I did not get the citizenship just to file petition for my relatives, so they can come here. As a fact of matter I don't have anybody left back in India who can apply for visa on blood relation-ship. I do have lots of relatives but cousines and etc...

I did understood the duties of a citizen before becoming one. So I will obey them.

I don't want to give up my citizenship and move back to India for this reason.

BTW...chances of me being drafted are very slim just like US going to war against India. ;)

Thx for the reply...your thoughtful post is appreciated:D

But why do some echans think of me to be UMA?? I mean UMA is totally congressi pro Nehru while I am totally anti-congressi anti-Nehru (barring a few exceptions)....lately disillusioned with BJP as well:D

Some echans also think that I am Dhurandhar Bhat....prior to that Biggie and Pelu used to speculate that I was CYBERIAN or Viking....do I exhibit multiple personality disorder?:D

[AmthaLal]

But why do some echans think of me to be UMA?? I mean UMA is totally congressi pro Nehru while I am totally anti-congressi anti-Nehru (barring a few exceptions)....lately disillusioned with BJP as well:D

There.....Perfact reason to believe. All multiple ID users do that. :D

J/K..

BTW I gave my reason to believe you are UMA.

I just guessed. ;)

I don't believe you are UMA. :)

[dhurandhar]

There.....Perfact reason to believe. All multiple ID users do that. :D

J/K..

BTW I gave my reason to believe you are UMA.

I just guessed. ;)

I don't believe you are UMA. :)

UMA....now that you are online...would you please care to clarify that you are not me...meaning you are not dhurandhar.....please vote on this poll if you have already read this post:D

GpeL whatchya thinkin.....vote man:D

[max de Indiana]

I personally feel that the devil has taken control over such people.
Dhurandor please change your faith immediately or esle it will be too late.


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :whacky: :whacky:

I like Amrika..but if they will Attack India ...I will fight them :mad:

[vyomkeshsaxena]

suhasini is not from india...thats for sure!! i saw her logged in at 2 am (IST)...and god nuns, i think, go to sleep early!!

suhasini=kharcha chachu.....:o

[vakil sahib]

i fully understand the dilemma that muslims all over the world are under. but how many palestinians or iraqis are in the US or british army? or even pakistanis for that matter. only a handful and if these soldiers asked to be excused on grounds of moral dilemma i would fully understand their stance.

i said in my first post that i cannot conceive of any circumstances under which an attack on india would be justified. india has not sponsored terrorism worldwide as some of these countries have.

but ordinary muslims are in a dilemma, i accept. it is for them to engage in soulsearching and come up with answers which will soothe their consciences. some of course will jump on the side of the terrorists. this is to be expected.

the terrorists who have perpetrated the recent bombings in london are of pakistani and somali origin. none of these countries have been attacked by the US or britain. on the contrary britain has offered asylum to tens of thousands of somalis.

terrorists need no proper justification for their actions. they will justify their actions by attaching them to any cause which happens to be going. they will use any oppression of muslims(real or perceived) as a means to recruit young and foolish men and send them into the field to attack, like pawns in a game of chess whilst the king is safely castled and protected.

[kingfisher]

Yaar yeh vote thread toh dekha ich nahin ??? woh bhi mere thread se inspire ho ke yeh thread :D , bahut khush hua.

So Dhuru I voted for that last option (will explain in post).

Oks my decision will be based on what is best for me and my nearest family at that point in time, so it may be US or India whatever is in our best interest.

[kingfisher]

Waise just remebered some history :

Netajis army fought the Brtish army which consisted mostly of local Indians.

In 1857 the freedom fighters were fighting a British army which also contained a lot of people born in the land thats called India.

[dhurandhar]

Dhuru, I am waiting for others to post before I post my opinion. Wanna hear how people react to this excellent thread here.

Still waiting for your post....:D

[Desi24]

yaar desi...i understand what u r saying...i was having a side-by-side convo with an EC'an rite now who is in US and i was saying to him that itz almost impossible for a guy like me to settle in any country permanently...for me itz earn and come back!! thinking of taking residentship is something that i cannot imagine!! I have all it takes to come to US for further studies and job (after some job experience here) and my dad is pushing me real hard for same...but iem simply not interested... :o

so my feelings are quite obvious afa citizenship is concerned! and reg oath and stuff...i dont follow double standards...i dunno how many of u really struck to the oath u used to take in school daily....i still need to come across people who remember or respect their national anthem or preamble in their full flavour....and reg opportunity n stuff....everything aside....if the question comes to me being empoyed to work against my motherland...then iem not such a person who will pledge my services to my new country of residence ( remember itz not new motherland) especially when i wont get all the rights that a normal citizen wud get even when i have taken up citizenship ( for eg..i cannot run for president's post)....:o

anyways...i know what iem in personal life...but my feelings towards people who move to US remains same....itz $$ and easy living...even if they r citizens... law-abiding citizens and have respect for everything abt the country but still reality is that any decent person wont work 'directly' against his motherland even if that means deportment!

[b]just wondering....if u r employed in a pharmaceutical company and u have a been given duty to test some drugs on volunteers...itz a new drug....u dunno itz side-effects...and seems like ur family members are unfortunate enuff to be vounteers..itz all upto u to administer the drug...will u do it?? wont u think twice?? feelings of the loyalty towards ur company for position and pay is more important or well-being of ur family!!! you may have signed papers that u will do ur job without any preudices or reservations...but wont u try ur max to c to it that ur family is not made guinea pig :rolleyes:

questions:

1.why did u move to usa?? (better pay..life...doesnt that make u opportunist?)
2. why did u opt for GC? ( u were tired about job insecurity...fear of deportment after expiry of contract or thrown out of company...fear of returning n living in india for less pay n stuff...GC insured u can stay in US after having recd pink slip and look for new job...ur married life was more secure now...doesnt that make u opportunist)
3. why did u take US citizenship ( better pay..easy living...or u think US is greater and virtuous than ur motherland n u respect it more that ur originial country of residence)
4. what makes u stay away from ur parents..people and country ( $$..easy living or u think US recognises and respect ur talent more than ur home country)

wud love desi to answer this question!! and plz dont mind my language or way of putting my views. I understand ur real intentions when u wrote ur post but then someone i cannot digest why people, after moving out, are more patriotic towards their new place of residence! oath is now oath to them...what oaths/pledges they tuk in india was just another piece of crap.....whatever....;)

sirji...dont talk abt shallow principles .....even a doctor teaches that a patient is just a diseased body for them and getting emotional will affect their judgement in diagnosis...but imagine a father operating upon his son/daughter...dont u think he will be the same doctor who operated upon other people without any fears or sentiments (say)

Sure I will answer your questions.

I moved to the US when I was only 10 years old with my parents. So I have pretty much grown up here. I guess I am different than other echarchans in this regard. I didn't move here for a better life........it was my parents decision. I went to middle school, high school and college here. I have lived here longer than I have lived in India. Maybe now you can better understand my stance on this topic.

I think of US as my country. So its kinda disspointing for me when people take an oath of citizenship but its only for superficial reasons. I expect a higher standard from Indians cuz I know that we have grown up with greatest morals and cultural heritage.

[vyomkeshsaxena]

no u need not desi...i understand ur pov..infact i was thinking abt editing my post..anyways..iem out of this thread :)

[padhu]

Ok here are my 2 cents to this.

Lets say I am in the US army but my dad is in the Indian army and we come face to face in battle, who will fire the bullet first? Likewise, like some who have said that they will return to India and fight, in such a scenario your son/daughter who was born here has roots here and if he/she fights on the US side and you the parent on the Indian side, will you be able to shoot at your kid first or vice versa. In both scenarios, I dont see any victory for us first generation Indians. Its a loose - loose scenario either ways.

I quote the story of Krishna, who was born to one mother but was raised by another mother. And true to that, the respect for the mother that raised him was more than the mother that gave birth to him. True, I was born in India and raised out there but now this is my home. Therefore if shit hits the fan, I will fight for the US. There can not be any doubt in my mind about that.

Though i know, that day is not going to come, atleast in my lifetime.

[BABU_HYDERABADI]

Dhurenderbhai, because you have in your posts in this thread mentioned Muslim support for terrorists ...

If Indian Hindus ever turned butchers ... went around the world ... terrorizing and killing innocent men, women and children in the name of my Hindu Gods ... I wont hesitate for a moment in joining US army to bomb the moherfo(kers to hell.

That's about it.

I am with tantu in this regard, BTW which country is asking muslims to attack their home land.(BTW do muslims have a concept of home country)

[Indian]

I quote the story of Krishna, who was born to one mother but was raised by another mother. And true to that, the respect for the mother that raised him was more than the mother that gave birth to him. True, I was born in India and raised out there but now this is my home. Therefore if shit hits the fan, I will fight for the US. There can not be any doubt in my mind about that.


:up: well said.

Police commisioner : dhurandhar ...you are under arrest !
dhurandhar: why ?
Police commisioner : You stole an idea from Indian illegally and started this thread . :smash: here is his idea http://www.echarcha.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20708&page=5&highlight=draw
dhurandhar::cry:
Police commisioner : Constable, isko hath kadi lagao aur gadi mein bhitao !
dhurandhar::cry: :(

i guess, i already answered your question there in that link !
FYI ..i am not an NRI, and i am not going to be there in any country other than india in future also.

I have complete plan of resistance & code of conduct in my brain for what i will do if US attacks India :D
Subhash Bose, Bhagat Singh , Alluri Sitaramaraju ...all have already defined what to do in such circumstances. I shall pick up the best strategys among them to fight US.

[Cooldude]

Thx tantu...your vote and post are appreciated:D

Notable echans who have refrained from posting/voting:

I wonder why...has it something to do with losing their balls?

I don't live in the US, though I do travel there sometimes.

Iraqi Expatriates living in the US & elsewhere in the west supported the US led invasion to topple Saddam Hussein & also later cheered his downfall. This joy actually superceded the other bitterness they had about the invasion of their home country by western forces.

Similarly tomorrow, if India happens to fall into the wrong hands or is ruled by a worthless & arrogant dictator, I wouldn't hesitate to support or even join the invading forces to liberate my home country.

As for Indians settled in the US, I agree with Padhu, that ones loyalty should be towards the present soil that he lives in & feeds him & his family than towards the place where he was born or where his roots are.

[DesiBaba]

I think of US as my country. So its kinda disspointing for me when people take an oath of citizenship but its only for superficial reasons. I expect a higher standard from Indians cuz I know that we have grown up with greatest morals and cultural heritage.
dude,u actually believed that these 3rd grade gas bunk owning or motel ownin gujjuz or those 3rd grade Indians with hatred fo they motherland's national language actually gave a fukk bout that oath fo US citizenship?? :D

lolz..this thread should be an eye-opener for a hardcore American browsing as a guest...

[Desi24]

dude,u actually believed that these 3rd grade gas bunk owning or motel ownin gujjuz or those 3rd grade Indians with hatred fo they motherland's national language actually gave a fukk bout that oath fo US citizenship?? :D

lolz..this thread should be an eye-opener for a hardcore American browsing as a guest...

Tru.....I guess I was living in a dream world. :(

[dhurandhar]

dude,u actually believed that these 3rd grade gas bunk owning or motel ownin gujjuz or those 3rd grade Indians with hatred fo they motherland's national language actually gave a fukk bout that oath fo US citizenship?? :D

lolz..this thread should be an eye-opener for a hardcore American browsing as a guest...

I am surprised you said that....atleast two gujjuz (dhurandhar and amthalal) voted to fight for US...as opposed to stream of non gujjuz who voted to sit/shit on fence by choosing the last option or not participating in the poll at all:D

btw, why such hatred for pump/motel owning gujjuz? I know a couple of such gujjuz in NJ who helped design the gun for M-1 Abrams:D

[echarcha]

I am surprised you said that....atleast two gujjuz (dhurandhar and amthalal) voted to fight for US...as opposed to stream of non gujjuz who voted to sit/shit on fence by choosing the last option or not participating in the poll at all:D

btw, why such hatred for pump/motel owning gujjuz? I know a couple of such gujjuz in NJ who helped design the gun for M-1 Abrams:D

Who are you? Are you dhurandar or someone else? Dhurandar Bhatt is already banned... So who is it? Or did you forget you were logged in as dhurandar and posted this comment? :D

[GunsNRoses]

Yes of course. One of the oaths you take when you become a citizen here is to swear allegiance to America. As far as I'm concerned, America has treated me fairly well and I'm not the kind of person that goes back on my word. Just one thing though, I wouldn't want to join the freakin' Army. I think I'd rather be a Marine.

Reason:
When you enlist in the army, you are called a soldier the moment you sign on the dotted line, whether you know how to shoot or not.
When you enlist in the navy, you're called a sailor the moment you sign on the dotted line, whether you know how to swim or not and have never been near a paddleboat before.
When you enlist in the (ch)airforce, you're called an airman the moment you sing on the dotted line, even if you've never stepped into a plane before.
When you enlist in the Marines, you're called a Marine only AFTER you pass the training course (every Marine learns to shoot, regardless of whether they work in a desk job or not). Until you pass the training course, you're just a recruit. This integrity has a certain appeal to me :D.

[dhurandhar]

Yes of course. One of the oaths you take when you become a citizen here is to swear allegiance to America. As far as I'm concerned, America has treated me fairly well and I'm not the kind of person that goes back on my word. Just one thing though, I wouldn't want to join the freakin' Army. I think I'd rather be a Marine.

Reason:
When you enlist in the army, you are called a soldier the moment you sign on the dotted line, whether you know how to shoot or not.
When you enlist in the navy, you're called a sailor the moment you sign on the dotted line, whether you know how to swim or not and have never been near a paddleboat before.
When you enlist in the (ch)airforce, you're called an airman the moment you sing on the dotted line, even if you've never stepped into a plane before.
When you enlist in the Marines, you're called a Marine only AFTER you pass the training course (every Marine learns to shoot, regardless of whether they work in a desk job or not). Until you pass the training course, you're just a recruit. This integrity has a certain appeal to me :D.

There are Marines and then there are Special Forces...Have you watched the movie, Devil's Brigade starring William Holden, Vince Edwards and Cliff Robertson? i find it to be a better version of Dirty Dozen starring Lee Marvin et al:D