Zoroasterians in former USSR (Central Asia)

[dhurandhar]

Howdy Padhu....please shed more light on the article if you can:D

MUMBAI: You thought all Zoroastrians looked like Dorab Daruwalla from Mumbai's Dadar Parsi Colony. You thought conversion were never allowed in Zoroastrianism.

This landmark photograph nixes both beliefs. On May 21, 2005, five Russians and one Ukranian were initiated into Zoroastrianism with the sedreh-pushti ceremony, the Iranian equivalent of the Parsis' Navjote. Konstantin Krilov, Akbar Aliev, Ivan Titkov , Alexander Smirnov , Maria Ivanova and Vyacheslav Fedoseenko ritually donned the sacred garments in Moscow, and became Stivand, Farrokh, Farabag, Bahman and Tishtar; the Ukranian didn't change his name.

Apart from the Moslem Akbar, all the others were Christian. Akbar's ethnic roots are mentioned as Parsi, and mother tongue as Azeri, suggesting that he was originally from Azerbaijan, the vicinity of Zarathushtra's birth.(Incidentally. after the break-up of the Soviet Union, a 'cache' of secret Zoroastrians was discovered in Tajikistan by Mumbai-based Meher Master-Moos, but they were not accepted as genuine by Indian community leaders).

Of the recent Russians, the erstwhile Alexander and Maria are students, the others are an editor, a university professor, a lawyer and a professional UN interpreter, which suggests that the usual suspects of conversion -- ignorance, force and/or monetary inducements -- were not at play.

Parsi children are initiated before puberty, so this photograph's shock value is sharpened by the line-up of fully grown men and women ranging in age from 19 to 39. (There are only four known....

for more click below:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1167559.cms

[shahenshah]

many parts of Central Asia had Persian/Zoroastrian influences that either co-existed with or predated Buddhist influences...so there have been subterranian influences in the former Soviet republics of Tajikistan, Kygystan etc...so not too long a stretch of imagination, this news...

[Cooldude]

many parts of Central Asia had Persian/Zoroastrian influences that either co-existed with or predated Buddhist influences...so there have been subterranian influences in the former Soviet republics of Tajikistan, Kygystan etc...so not too long a stretch of imagination, this news...

Strange that these influences have survived years of atheism imposed by the commies.... :)

[padhu]

Howdy Padhu....please shed more light on the article if you can:D


Dhuru, I know from my reads and research that the ancient zorastrian faith was far widespread than first perceived. There was a guy called Paul Kriwaczek or something like that who actually did a journey recently to track the spread of the zorastrian faith. In his journey he found that the ancient zorastrian followers ranged all the way from Turkey to Russia and even China. In fact, one Zorastrian was a general in the chinese imperial forces. There are still a lot of decendents of zorastrians in Russia, Armenia and Ukraine. In addition, you cans till see some ancient fire temples mostly in ruins in Iran, Turkey, Syria, Kazakhstan and Russia.

People have tried to convert to Zorastrianism for years but its not permitted. I personally do not belive that Zarathustra would have said that becuase 1) Out of his 200 off scriptures only 15 were left when Alexander destroyed Persepolis and 2) becuase the zorastrian faith has evloed from people being deciples and followers of zarathustra's mono atheism preachings. I guess somewhere down the line in the translation of the gathas, some over enthuisastic priests must have laid down these rules and they are blindly being followed to date.

One thing in the zorastrian faith which i find it discriminatory is that if a zorastrian boy marries a non zorastrian (like me) then my kids can still follow the zorastrian faith but if a zorastrian girl marries a non zorastrian, then her kids cannot follow the faith. This has caused a lot of underground navjote (initiation ceremony) ceremonies where zorastrian moms have got their kids invoked into the faith.Personally i do not see anythign wrong with that but I know a lot of parsees are aginst it.

So i am not surprised of the ceremonies involving these people. There are tons of these happenign in the US too BUT some parent has to be azorastrian or a decendent of zorastrian.

I personally do not believe in conversions and neither do parsees, so hindus, muslims, christians or whoever have nothing to worry from us. We dont convert and we wont convert. :up: :up: :up:

[padhu]

many parts of Central Asia had Persian/Zoroastrian influences that either co-existed with or predated Buddhist influences...so there have been subterranian influences in the former Soviet republics of Tajikistan, Kygystan etc...so not too long a stretch of imagination, this news...

Shahenshah, Zarathustra was the world'd first profet. New research has now put his birth as far as 2nd century BC, much before any faith ever existed.

[Desi24]

Padhu can u tell us some basic principles of ur faith. I don't anything about it. Stuff like, Who is ur God? What's the name of your holy book(s)? Do you belive in heaven/hell? Reincarnation? Believe that only your religion is true or respect other religion? etc..

Thanks.

[padhu]

Strange that these influences have survived years of atheism imposed by the commies.... :)

Cooldude, yes it has survived through all the bullshit metted out to us and we are close to be being branded the status of a Tribe. If you look at the minority quota, we fit it to the T but you will never see one bawa eyeing for a minority seat. As JRD Tata said we belive in quality and not quantity. Happy go lucky attitude. If we are wiped out in the next few centuries, so be it but we will go down with pride. :up: :up:

[dhurandhar]

Shahenshah, Zarathustra was the world'd first profet. New research has now put his birth as far as 2nd century BC, much before any faith ever existed.

You are denying that Moses was a prophet:D....who was long before Jesus and Zarthustra...or am I very mistaken?

[padhu]

Padhu can u tell us some basic principles of ur faith. I don't anything about it. Stuff like, Who is ur God? What's the name of your holy book(s)? Do you belive in heaven/hell? Reincarnation? Believe that only your religion is true or respect other religion? etc..

Thanks.

Basic principles of our faith, hmm, thats tough to put in words, but here goes. We believe in giving respect to Air, Earth, Fire and Water the basic cornerstones of mankind. A lot of people think of us as fire worshipers but that is wrong. We dont worship the fire, its like the hindu's using fire for hawan puja and their aarti's we use fire for the same reasons.

Another misconception that people have is that they think Zarathustra is our god. That is not correct. Zarathustra is our prophet, our god is Ahura Mazda.

Our holy book is the Avesta but unlike books of other religions which contain texts, our book contains prayers in the form of poems for that is the way Zarathustra preached. If you ever notice a parsi pray or witness a parsi ceremony, you will find the person preaying it in a sort of a tune like reciting a poem. Unfortunately, the Avesta is not complete as most of it was destroyed Alexander. So what is in the Avesta now is just a fraction of Zarathustra's preachings.

As for heaven and hell, yes we do believe in it. We also believe that you have to pay for deeds in this life itself. I dunno if i am doing justice to this but the concept of heaven and hell is unique. When a zorastrian person dies and he is taken to the Tower of Silence, during the prayers a dog is brought in near the body and the dog barks a couple of times. It is in the Zorastrian faith that a dog wards of evil and thus it cleanses the path for the spirit towards the upwards journey. It is then said that the spirit, passes over a bridge and his/her deeds in this life confront you on this bridge and the bridge keeps getting narrower for the dirty deeds, and if you pass through the bridge and reach the other shore, you have passed through your deeds and you enter heaven. For those who do not, and the bridge becomes absolutely narrow, they fall to the depths of hell. I know, it sounds pretty far fetching, but i just go with the flow of what is tought.

As for reincarnation, i am a bit fuzzy about it so wont speculate on it but i personally believe in reincarnation. I remember when i was a kid and my grand pa had died and after a few months a crow used to come in ever day to our balcony exactly during lunch time and keep on cawing and would nto keep quiet till we gave it some food and my mom and dad used to say that the crow is a messenger from your grand pa and telling you that he is ok.

As for respect for other religions, yes we do respect all religions. No bias or hatred for anyone, not even muslims (becuase of whom we were driven away from our own land).

I hope i answered your queries, more in depth info when we meet again...some place quiet though, my ears are still hurting with that loud music. :D :D :D

[padhu]

You are denying that Moses was a prophet:D....who was long before Jesus and Zarthustra...or am I very mistaken?

Dhuru, Moses came much much later. The jews should be thankful to zorastrians for when the syrians and turks destroyed the Temple of Jericho, it was Cyrus who defeated the Syrians and rebuit the Temple of Jericho for the jews.

[Desi24]

Basic principles of our faith, hmm, thats tough to put in words, but here goes. We believe in giving respect to Air, Earth, Fire and Water the basic cornerstones of mankind. A lot of people think of us as fire worshipers but that is wrong. We dont worship the fire, its like the hindu's using fire for hawan puja and their aarti's we use fire for the same reasons.

Another misconception that people have is that they think Zarathustra is our god. That is not correct. Zarathustra is our prophet, our god is Ahura Mazda.

Our holy book is the Avesta but unlike books of other religions which contain texts, our book contains prayers in the form of poems for that is the way Zarathustra preached. If you ever notice a parsi pray or witness a parsi ceremony, you will find the person preaying it in a sort of a tune like reciting a poem. Unfortunately, the Avesta is not complete as most of it was destroyed Alexander. So what is in the Avesta now is just a fraction of Zarathustra's preachings.

As for heaven and hell, yes we do believe in it. We also believe that you have to pay for deeds in this life itself. I dunno if i am doing justice to this but the concept of heaven and hell is unique. When a zorastrian person dies and he is taken to the Tower of Silence, during the prayers a dog is brought in near the body and the dog barks a couple of times. It is in the Zorastrian faith that a dog wards of evil and thus it cleanses the path for the spirit towards the upwards journey. It is then said that the spirit, passes over a bridge and his/her deeds in this life confront you on this bridge and the bridge keeps getting narrower for the dirty deeds, and if you pass through the bridge and reach the other shore, you have passed through your deeds and you enter heaven. For those who do not, and the bridge becomes absolutely narrow, they fall to the depths of hell. I know, it sounds pretty far fetching, but i just go with the flow of what is tought.

As for reincarnation, i am a bit fuzzy about it so wont speculate on it but i personally believe in reincarnation. I remember when i was a kid and my grand pa had died and after a few months a crow used to come in ever day to our balcony exactly during lunch time and keep on cawing and would nto keep quiet till we gave it some food and my mom and dad used to say that the crow is a messenger from your grand pa and telling you that he is ok.

As for respect for other religions, yes we do respect all religions. No bias or hatred for anyone, not even muslims (becuase of whom we were driven away from our own land).

I hope i answered your queries, more in depth info when we meet again...some place quiet though, my ears are still hurting with that loud music. :D :D :D

Interesting....

Chal thik hai....I'll save my questions for later. This time we'll go somewhere else. I need a break from the loud music as well....we are just gonna have to convince DesiBaba.....that place is like a second home to him. :D

[dhurandhar]

Dhuru, Moses came much much later. The jews should be thankful to zorastrians for when the syrians and turks destroyed the Temple of Jericho, it was Cyrus who defeated the Syrians and rebuit the Temple of Jericho for the jews.

http://www.geocities.com/baptistsite/Chronology4.htm

As per this chronology, Moses predated Cyrus by several centuries:D

You are cordially invited to post a link that says otherwise:D

[padhu]

http://www.geocities.com/baptistsite/Chronology4.htm

As per this chronology, Moses predated Cyrus by several centuries:D

You are cordially invited to post a link that says otherwise:D

Yes, Moses predated Cyrus. I think i am not conveying it right to you. What i am saying is that Zarathustra was born much before Moses. The jews built the Temple of Jericho after Moses. It was much after that, that the temple was destroyed and then rebuilt by Cyrus. Hope this clears the confusion. :D

[dhurandhar]

Yes, Moses predated Cyrus. I think i am not conveying it right to you. What i am saying is that Zarathustra was born much before Moses. The jews built the Temple of Jericho after Moses. It was much after that, that the temple was destroyed and then rebuilt by Cyrus. Hope this clears the confusion. :D\

I think Zarthustra was after Moses....please provide date to support your claim:D

As per the link I posted.....Moses was 15 centuries before Jesus....How much before Jesus was Zarthustra?

[padhu]

\

I think Zarthustra was after Moses....please provide date to support your claim:D

As per the link I posted.....Moses was 15 centuries before Jesus....How much before Jesus was Zarthustra?

Dhuru

here is a link to the book that I have that explains it

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0375415289/ref=pd_sxp_f/104-6023844-1335951?v=glance&s=books

Here are some links on Zarathustra that I found:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroaster

http://www.zoroaster.net/indexe.htm

[padhu]

Dhuru

here is a link about the influence of Zorastrinism on Judaism and Christianity

http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Religions/iranian/Zarathushtrian/zoroastrianism_influence.htm


Here is a nice link too which describes the Parsis of India by Sooni Taraporevala (Salaam Bombay, Mississippi Masala fame)

http://www.parsijourney.com/chapters/intro/intro.html

[dhurandhar]

Dhuru

here is a link about the influence of Zorastrinism on Judaism and Christianity

http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Religions/iranian/Zarathushtrian/zoroastrianism_influence.htm


Here is a nice link too which describes the Parsis of India by Sooni Taraporevala (Salaam Bombay, Mississippi Masala fame)

http://www.parsijourney.com/chapters/intro/intro.html

thx....interesting links into mystery of the origin of the religion:up::D

[padhu]

thx....interesting links into mystery of the origin of the religion:up::D

Dhuru, I am no expert on the Zorastrian religion as I am not much into religion and all that kind of stuff. I am sure you can find better resources other than me if you want to go deeper into your research.

[Cooldude]

Padhu,
Here's a picture gallery on the Zoroastrian community in Iran and their history:

In pictures: Zoroastrians in Iran (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/05/middle_east_zoroastrians_in_iran/html/1.stm)

[padhu]

Padhu,
Here's a picture gallery on the Zoroastrian community in Iran and their history:

In pictures: Zoroastrians in Iran (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/05/middle_east_zoroastrians_in_iran/html/1.stm)

Thanks cooldude for your link. I have some more pics and links if anyone is interested.