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landyaBhai
March 22nd, 2005, 12:18 AM
It may help out some netizens out here who maintain an informational web site ... Mathworld.com is one of the sites that I personally like and refer to whenever I have any math problems ... Here is a link the site http://mathworld.wolfram.com/

Anyways, here is what Dr. Weisstein the author of Mathworld had to say when his site got shutdown because CRC sued them.

Author's Note
Welcome Back to MathWorld!

Gentle Readers,

In late October 2000, MathWorld disappeared from the web. It remained shut down by a lawsuit for more than a year.

That year was a nightmare for me--the worst period of my life.

I can't tell you how much I have wanted to be able to announce that MathWorld is back.

And now I can. The ordeal is finally over. The website is back up and running.

My first impulse is just to invite old friends and new visitors to plunge back in. We've lost a year's worth of work on the website--no small thing at the rate Todd Rowland and I were adding entries and you were contributing suggestions and material. All the more reason to get back to the business of adding to and enhancing the contents of MathWorld!

Please use and enjoy this unique resource. Help me make it better. That's why I created MathWorld in the first place. That's why Wolfram Research decided to sponsor it and me. And that's why Wolfram Research devoted tremendous amounts of time and money this last year to get it back online.

My second impulse is to thank all of you who sent me what eventually became thousands of encouraging emails during this horrible year. MathWorld has been a major focus of my life for more than a decade. It was devastating to find myself in a lawsuit that could have destroyed a major part of my life's work.

The support you transmitted through your emails was matched only by that I received at Wolfram Research. My colleagues rallied to the defense of MathWorld immediately and decisively, and Wolfram Research, a privately held company run by the innovators who built it, stood up for me and for the principles behind MathWorld.

Founder and CEO Stephen Wolfram took time away from his around-the-clock effort to complete his decade-long project and long-awaited book A New Kind of Science. Similarly, Theodore Gray, a key Mathematica developer, put aside his own projects for days on end to lend his expertise to fight for and defend MathWorld.

Before we all get back to work, I invite you to spend a few minutes with the detailed narrative I have written describing my ordeal over the last year. Why take the time to read this story? Read it because I'm fairly certain you don't want to again lose this or any other online resources that you have come to rely upon. And believe me, if you ever assemble a body of knowledge that you want to share with others, you don't want to go through what I have just gone through.

So welcome back! Plunge in, enjoy, learn, and help share and spread the wonder of mathematics. And if you can, please also join the effort to keep online resources like this up and available.

Best wishes,

Eric W. Weisstein
mathworld@wolfram.com
Encyclopedist
Wolfram Research, Inc.

November 6, 2001
Champaign, Illinois

You can also click on the following link to read about the whole matter with CRC. Here it is:

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/about/erics_commentary.html

landyaBhai
March 22nd, 2005, 12:29 AM
Author's Detailed Commentary: What Happened to MathWorld

It is no secret that one consequence of the explosion in the popularity of the internet and related electronic technologies is that many battles will be fought over how information is created, stored, and accessed. It is equally clear that we all have a stake in how these battles are decided.

Below is an account of one such battle--the lawsuit served on me and Wolfram Research in the spring of 2000 by CRC Press LLC, a publisher that generations of scientists used to know as the Chemical Rubber Company. This lawsuit was instigated by CRC Press after I had contracted with them to print and distribute a "snapshot" of my math website in book form. My goal in recounting how that contract went awry is to give others an opportunity to learn less painfully what I have learned--especially about the deep cultural divide that appears to be opening up between most, but I hope not all, book publishers and their potential customers and authors. In particular, many publishers seem unable to understand a new generation for whom dynamic websites are rapidly becoming a primary medium--sometimes coequal with books, sometimes preferred over books--for gathering, extending, and sharing knowledge.

In this account, you will find links that will take you to extensive documents containing all you could possibly want to know (and probably more) about the lawsuit that took this website off the internet for more than a year. What happened to MathWorld will happen again elsewhere. But I believe and hope that the lessons learned from my experience can reduce the frequency of such events in the future.

The following detailed summaries are extracted in part from an even more detailed exposition of the history of my website contained in my affidavit in response to CRC's motion for an injunction against MathWorld.
How MathWorld Came to Be

I began collecting the material now found in MathWorld when I was in high school and continued the project as a college student in the late 1980s. As I collected the material, I stored my notes on my state-of-the-art Mac Plus personal computer and started sharing my collections of math and science facts with friends. "Eric's Treasure Trove of Mathematics," the predecessor site to MathWorld, first went online in 1995 when I was a graduate student in planetary astronomy at the California Institute of Technology.

As the site became more widely known and used, dozens of contributors offered new entries. Hundreds of others from around the world offered technical advice, criticism, and kind messages. The website was in a constant state of evolution. It was a hugely rewarding experience. The growing volume of comments and submissions from the diverse community of users made clear that what had started as a labor of love for me was becoming a major math and science resource for thousands, just as I had hoped.
The Book: A "Snapshot" of the Evolving Web Site

As the website grew, I came to believe that a snapshot of its contents in printed form could be useful. I myself do not always have a computer at my fingertips. A book would also make the material accessible to precollege educators and people less comfortable with (or without access to) the internet. (For some of you it may require some imagination to conjure up the dark ages of 1995, when web browsers were in their infancy and email was hardly the mass phenomenon it has since become.)

Although new material was being added daily, I felt that the Treasure Trove had become comprehensive and polished enough, due in large part to helpful suggestions from critical readers, that a snapshot of it would constitute a useful reference book. So, in February 1996, I began seeking a publisher to print and market such a snapshot. I presented a nearly complete paper manuscript to several publishers of scientific and technical books, including CRC Press.

Tales of warm friendships between famous authors and their longtime editors are legendary. I imagined that publishers must have a natural interest in retaining the good will of their authors, especially authors of works likely to be revised and reissued in new editions. When CRC agreed to publish the book, I therefore gave limited scrutiny to the boilerplate publishing agreement they provided--especially since my editor, Bob Stern, characterized the contract as "very straight forward [sic] and easily understood." He assured me that its language and terms were standard in the publishing business. So I signed it.

Lesson #1 (Where have you heard this before?): Never sign a contract until you feel that you understand and agree with, or at least accept, every clause in it. If you are not sure of the meaning or implications of any phrase or provision, find a lawyer experienced in your kind of project and take the lawyer's advice! (This lesson should be read repeatedly and committed to memory.) Also consult with authors' organizations, and make use of helpful online resources such as Wilfred Hodges's mathematical copyright web page, a public page devoted to copyright issues in mathematical publications.

CRC's agreement defined the contracted "Work" as "approximately 1400 camera-ready manuscript pages and including approximately 1200 camera-ready illustrations to yield a completed work of approximately 1408 printed pages." I understood this to mean that I was assigning to CRC the right to publish the typeset camera-ready text I had offered.
The Web Site and Its Relationship to Book Sales

In late October or early November 1998, as the book adaptation neared final production, I received a phone call from Mr. Stern. Throughout this prepublication period, my website had been receiving a great deal of attention. On the website, I had posted an announcement of the imminent appearance of the CRC book, and that announcement appeared to be generating a significant number of prerelease sales for the book. I thought things were going very well.

But now Mr. Stern was on the phone asking me to remove portions of the website content in order to create greater incentives for online users to purchase the book.

I had always assumed that there would be, at most, a modest overlap between the set of people who were users of the website and the set of people who would want to own a printed reference book created by formatting a snapshot of the website contents. It had been gratifying to discover that people in that intersection seemed enthusiastic about buying the book.

So I told Mr. Stern that I felt the website was, on balance, creating sales for the book and not suppressing them. I was very reluctant to restrict free access to any contents of the website.

However, in November 1998, against my better judgment, I began to comply with Mr. Stern's request. At first I did this by randomly choosing a set of letters of the alphabet each day and blocking all entries starting with those letters. That way, some inconvenience was introduced into use of the website, but no material remained blocked for long.

From the start this struck me as a poor device for dealing with irresponsible internet users who might attempt to bulk-download large portions of online material. Taking arbitrary entries off line was inconveniencing all users who happened to need the blocked material. And, happily, bulk-downloading was an uncommon pattern of use according to my analysis of website traffic.

If the problem was the user who wants to own a snapshot of the website but, to avoid purchasing the CRC book, downloads major portions of the website's content, then why not inconvenience only those exhibiting such patterns of use? So I began to improve my monitoring and access system. By mid-1999 I felt that the software I had written was able to detect and prevent attempts to download large bodies of material. So I removed the letter-based access restrictions altogether.

I was now morally certain that no online user could, in effect, get around CRC's rights to be sole provider of comprehensive snapshots of the website. (In addition to the printed book, CRC had agreed to market a CD-ROM version--a snapshot with its own advantages and disadvantages compared to a book. I had prepared the CD-ROM; CRC duplicated it and promised to promote it.)
Eric Comes to Wolfram Research

In the meantime, a representative of Wolfram Research had invited me to visit its Champaign headquarters and speak about my mathematical website. I traveled to Champaign in February 1999, presented my work, and shortly thereafter was delighted to be offered a position with Wolfram Research.

I had for some time admired Wolfram Research's support of long-term efforts to collect and disseminate mathematical knowledge on the internet through a collection of information-rich websites. And I was enthusiastic about the possibility of working for what I knew to be the world's premier technical software company.

As my postdoctoral research at the University of Virginia neared completion, I purchased the "www.treasure-troves.com" domain name and moved my web pages from the university address at which it had resided to a commercial internet-hosting site. Throughout this period the math Treasure Trove was accessible to the public and free of charge.

I began work at Wolfram Research on June 1, 1999.

Stephen Wolfram and others suggested that the website ought to give its users the ability to locate information based on a custom-tailored subject classification. A number of Wolfram Research staff joined me in developing an intuitive and powerful new graphical user interface that greatly enhanced the usefulness of the burgeoning content of the math website.

In December 1999 Wolfram Research and I unveiled the enhanced website, now renamed MathWorld and located at mathworld.wolfram.com.
CRC Fails to Promote the Book

When the book was first released, CRC promoted it with what I thought was some vigor. However, as the months passed, I grew increasingly disappointed with their efforts. Less than a year after its release, the book ceased appearing in CRC mailings that I received, including special ones for its "Most Popular Math Titles."

I was also greatly disappointed that CRC had raised the price of the book twice within its first year, from the original $65 to $79.95, and then to $99.95. This seemed to undermine our original strategy of keeping the price low enough for students to afford.

And it appeared to me that CRC had done little to get the book into bookstores. In fact, to date I have seen the book carried in only a single bookstore: the campus bookstore of my highly atypical alma mater, the California Institute of Technology.

Accordingly, on February 15, 2000, I sent a note to Mr. Stern:

I've recently noticed a few signs which seem to indicate CRC is not doing an optimal job of publicizing the CRC Concise Encyclopedia of Mathematics. I was hoping you could reassure me: (1) I just got the CRC "Best of Math" flier. To my surprise, my encyclopedia is nowhere to be found. (2) Amazon.com has been listing the book/CD-ROM combo as out of print and back-ordered for about 4 months now.... Would it be possible to have someone contact Amazon.com and find out why they think the combo is on back-order? (3) I never heard back from you about the color direct-mail flier which was supposed to go out promoting the [CD-ROM--erroneously written as "book" in the original] (and on which I sent you comments last summer). Do you know if it ever went out, or did the flier just get dropped?

Later that day, I received a phone call from Mr. Stern. He told me that (1) because the encyclopedia had been out for two years now (actually, it had been out for less than 15 months), it was not considered a very high priority and hence may have been "overlooked" when creating the brochure; (2) CRC had decided to discontinue the CD/book bundle, though he could offer no reason for this decision; and (3) promotional fliers for the CD-ROM and bundle editions had never seen the light of day.
CRC Sues Eric and Wolfram Research

At the end of this conversation, Mr. Stern changed the topic. He told me that he had heard that my website was now located at a Wolfram Research web address.

I told him that this was indeed true.

Mr. Stern said that something would have to be done about that.

I replied that I did not understand why the shift from the old website to the MathWorld site should be a matter of any concern. Mr. Stern simply repeated that it was and that he would have to inform his superiors at CRC. I did not know what to make of this, so I asked him to contact an attorney at Wolfram Research, who I believed would be able to clear up any concerns.

On March 8, 2000, I was greatly surprised when, after returning from lunch, I was informed that a sheriff's deputy was waiting for me in the Wolfram Research lobby.

I was even more dismayed when he served me with a document naming me and my employer as defendants in a Federal copyright-violation lawsuit.

This was my first and only communication from CRC since my conversation three weeks earlier with Mr. Stern. For the interested reader, a copy of the lawsuit filed by CRC is available. A complete list of legal documents, many of which make interesting reading and give a good feel for the attitude of CRC Press, and a set of FAQs about the case are also available.
How the Tail Came to Wag the Dog

In its lawsuit, CRC claimed that the existence of the MathWorld website "competes with and interferes and impairs with [sic] sales of the Concise Encyclopedia."

They sought monetary damages from Wolfram Research. From me, they sought "not less than the advance and all royalties earned by Weisstein"--everything, in short, that they had ever paid me!

Apparently impervious to irony, CRC at the same time acknowledged in its own court filing that the book was the company's best-selling mathematics title! (This, one month after Mr. Stern had "explained" to me that my book was a back-list item that I should not be surprised to see dropped from its promotional materials.)

Arguments that the website was hurting sales of the book, in CRC's subsequent motion for preliminary injunction to force us to shut down the website, were completely contrary to the facts as I knew them and as I had tried repeatedly to explain to Mr. Stern.

CRC claimed that "anyone can download MathWorld" and that MathWorld "supplants" or poses "a formidable threat" to the book. As explained above, I had taken steps to prevent large downloads; I knew from monitoring traffic at the website that large downloads were in fact not happening.

And CRC also claimed, with a straight face, in a reply memorandum that "the public will suffer no injury from a preliminary injunction because the Encyclopedia will continue to be available without interruption, from CRC Press."

This argument, in particular, confirmed my worst fears that CRC's representatives had never understood the nature of my website. They were blind to the interests of the thousands of you in our online community who had helped expand and improve it. They seemed completely oblivious of the fact that without you there might not have been a book worth publishing.

Wolfram Research and I were confident that CRC's factual assertions about the website had no merit. But the law takes copyright very seriously. Language in my contract with CRC (that I had never construed in the way that CRC now presented it) apparently persuaded the Court on October 23, 2000, to grant CRC's injunction, perhaps to create a strong incentive for Wolfram Research and me to negotiate a settlement with CRC. (It was clear to all parties that the original contract had flaws; in such cases, the best approach is often for the disputants to reach an out-of-court settlement by writing a new, clarified contract. In effect, that is what has, at long last, happened.)

I simply could not believe what was happening. The interests of thousands of enthusiastic users of the website were about to be sacrificed to the misperceived commercial interests of the company that I had brought in to provide a printed version to the comparatively few users who might want a book. What I had conceived as a minor side activity was threatening to destroy the core activity on which I had been working for more than a decade!
Some Comments about CRC Press LLC

As the shock wore off, Wolfram Research's and my first instincts were to reason with CRC. We were certain, based on feedback from readers of the website, that their assertions about it were unfounded, that it was in fact generating book sales for them and not suppressing sales.

But when we attempted to present these facts, we found that no one from CRC press was even listening. During the course of these discussions, the heads of the book publishing and the electronic publishing divisions both left the company. We could not get anyone to listen to arguments actually focusing on the marketing of books. CRC's responses were overwhelmingly legal and contractual. When facts entered at all, they were simply repeated assertions that we were certain would not stand up to reasonable scrutiny.

We wanted very much to negotiate a settlement that would allow us to bring the website back. We proposed what we thought were attractive arrangements that would benefit both companies. Our proposals were ignored.

For months, I could not imagine why CRC was behaving as it was. Why would a technical publisher not listen to one of its best-selling authors and to his employer, the world leader in mathematical computation? Why treat us, instead, in a way almost guaranteed to alienate us? It seemed insane!

I have had to conclude, to my sorrow, that CRC--perhaps like many other publishers in our era of wild corporate acquisitions and conglomerations--is no longer managed by people who understand and love books, authors, and readers.

The parent company of CRC, Information Holdings Inc., appears unashamed to treat information as a commodity to be exploited for short-term, bottom-line cash with no concern for long-term, strategic planning. The goal of the CRC representatives seemed to be monomaniacal: to squeeze from Wolfram Research and from me as much instant and short-term cash as possible, using the lawsuit as a lever.

How self-defeating in an era of rapid technological change! Apparently uninterested in looking forward and building good future business strategies, here are publishers focusing instead on how to squeeze greater quantities of immediate cash from old "properties."

I have come to realize how unusual it is to be working for a company that is run by people who still enjoy the core activities for which the company was founded. Very early in the lawsuit, a Wolfram Research response to the lawsuit mentioned that Wolfram Research has chosen to remain privately held in order to be free from the obligation to outside stockholders, who appear so often to focus corporations inordinately on short-term financial results. Wolfram Research's principals believe that they can take the long and broad view of the corporation's mission, as they could not if they had to satisfy stock analysts and uninvolved stockholders.

The behavior of CRC's representatives this last year has been, for me, convincing evidence of the wisdom of Wolfram Research's strategy. The people at my company believe in what they do, make money doing it, and have fun along the way. I didn't see much fun among the CRC people we dealt with.
Settling the Case

We eventually concluded that there was no real business discussion possible. CRC was simply incapable of listening to or evaluating an actual business proposal. So we weighed the costs of continued litigation against the costs of giving CRC some of the cash for which it appeared so hungry. The cash approach won.

In addition to its "instant win," CRC will be paid annually for books it doesn't sell, according to a formula that both sides have accepted--although we continue to believe that any past or future failure to achieve projected sales is far more plausibly attributed to CRC's abysmal marketing efforts than to any abuse of the website by people who want to have and hold snapshots of its contents. But in this life we do what we have to do--and what we are willing to do.

There are a few other consequences of the settlement that are of interest to MathWorld readers. The first is that a copyright statement "© 1999 CRC Press LLC" (in addition to the © 1999-2004 Wolfram Research, Inc. notice) now appears at the bottom of MathWorld entries that have a corresponding article in CRC's printed shapshot. Despite the facts that I (or volunteer contributors) wrote these entries and that CRC Press did nothing to support their creation or the creation of the website in which they appear, and the fact that they existed in the website long before they ever appeared in the printed version, the tail has truly come to wag this dog, and this copyright statement will henceforth be a constant reminder of this fact.

Another important consequence is that, as part of the settlement agreement, CRC Press will now be given permission to create editions of the printed book based on future snapshots of the website. As a result, CRC insisted that broad reproduction rights to all contributed material be secured. Furthermore, if we are not able to secure such rights, then Wolfram Research and I, at our own expense, must rewrite the entries in question from scratch for CRC to reproduce.
Thanks

After a draining personal ordeal lasting more than a year while the site was unavailable to readers MathWorld is now back. We've even taken the opportunity to add a new streamlined graphical design, and have also added a new feature in which important headline mathematical news will be announced and described. I hope this feature will be useful to readers of the website as a means for keeping tabs on what is happening in the mathematical sciences. Please feel free to contribute news items to news@mathworld.wolfram.com so I can pass the word along to others!

Wolfram Research and I have been and remain steadfastly committed to supporting the development of MathWorld. Wolfram Research has committed considerable resources to defend MathWorld against the threat of being permanently removed from the internet--an outcome CRC Press has repeatedly told us would suit it just fine. I am personally grateful for the support of Wolfram Research and for the fact that MathWorld will not be relegated to an electronic trash heap. If you want to show your appreciation of the stand Wolfram Research is taking, please visit the how I can help web page.

Finally, I would like to extend my sincerest thanks for your patience and support over this past year. I invite your continued partnership in my efforts to expand and improve MathWorld as well as to support other efforts to gather and present educational information free of charge over the internet. Let's continue together to spread the wonder and beauty that is mathematics!

Regards,

Eric W. Weisstein
mathworld@wolfram.com
Encyclopedist
Wolfram Research, Inc.

November 6, 2001
Champaign, Illinois

dhurandhar
March 22nd, 2005, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by landyaBhai
Author's Detailed Commentary: What Happened to MathWorld

I

Hey Landya...are you a Mathematica guy or a Maple guy??

I am an avid fan of Mathematica....only use Matlab for hardcore number crunching:D

I find Maple quite unfriendly...your thoughts please:D

echarcha
March 22nd, 2005, 10:17 AM
I have used that website for some quick reference for coordinate geometry which I needed to draw some custom widgets for the GUI I have worked on.

landyaBhai
March 22nd, 2005, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by dhurandhar
Hey Landya...are you a Mathematica guy or a Maple guy??

I am an avid fan of Mathematica....only use Matlab for hardcore number crunching:D

I find Maple quite unfriendly...your thoughts please:D

yep me too ... Mathematica and Matlab :up:

Its so sorry to hear what happened with Dr. Eric Weinstein.

There is a saying from Edison's biographies ... "So many things to do and so little time". Legal problems like these led Eric to loose a lot of time ... I hope to see a better mathworld with the passing of years.

dhurandhar
March 22nd, 2005, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by landyaBhai
yep me too ... Mathematica and Matlab :up:

Its so sorry to hear what happened with Dr. Eric Weinstein.

There is a saying from Edison's biographies ... "So many things to do and so little time". Legal problems like these led Eric to loose a lot of time ... I hope to see a better mathworld with the passing of years.

Yep....its disgusting what publishers do to screw authors around...especially if the author is a novice or nobody

Glad to know one more Mathematica fan around...bit surprised though considering that Math and Computer Science department are often interlinked and that Math department folks usually prefer Maple (made by bunch of mathematicians) as opposed to physicists preferring Mathematica (made by physicist)

I think Wolfram is one sheer genius...too bad he is not doing much physics anymore...his latest book, "A new kind of science" though intriguing seems a bit far fetched to me...but then I am scared shitless with the idea of equations of physics being replaced by fistful of rules:D

landyaBhai
March 22nd, 2005, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by dhurandhar

I think Wolfram is one sheer genius...too bad he is not doing much physics anymore...his latest book, "A new kind of science" though intriguing seems a bit far fetched to me...but then I am scared shitless with the idea of equations of physics being replaced by fistful of rules:D

I am kind of curious now ... will see whether there is a copy of this book in the local library

landyaBhai
March 22nd, 2005, 02:17 PM
hey Dhurandhar,

There are these math books by George Polya the famous mathematician from Stanford. He has written three volumes on how to use plausible reasoning with mathematics instead of starting with a rigorous proof based techniques which is how mathematics is usally expressed ...

Here are the book titles If you are interested ...

(1) How to solve it: A new aspect of mathematical method

(2) Mathematics and Plausible reasoning,

and

(3) Induction and analogy in mathematics.

dhurandhar
March 22nd, 2005, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by landyaBhai
hey Dhurandhar,

There are these math books by George Polya the famous mathematician from Stanford. He has written three volumes on how to use plausible reasoning with mathematics instead of starting with a rigorous proof based techniques which is how mathematics is usally expressed ...

Here are the book titles If you are interested ...

(1) How to solve it: A new aspect of mathematical method

(2) Mathematics and Plausible reasoning,

and

(3) Induction and analogy in mathematics.

I own a copy of first two of them:D

echarcha
March 22nd, 2005, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by dhurandhar
I own a copy of first two of them:D

tum sub log kitne hoshiyaar, kitne samajhdaar, kitne mathematic type ke ho.. wah wah... main tu aap sabke samne ekdum halka fulka hoon :clap:

dhurandhar
March 22nd, 2005, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by echarcha
tum sub log kitne hoshiyaar, kitne samajhdaar, kitne mathematic type ke ho.. wah wah... main tu aap sabke samne ekdum halka fulka hoon :clap:

i feel the same way for all you computer experts:D

Cooldude
March 22nd, 2005, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by dhurandhar
i feel the same way for all you computer experts:D

Same here... Software engineers rule... :up:

Thanks for all the info on the books LandyaBhai.... :up:

tantric_yogi
March 22nd, 2005, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by echarcha
tum sub log kitne hoshiyaar, kitne samajhdaar, kitne mathematic type ke ho.. wah wah... main tu aap sabke samne ekdum halka fulka hoon :clap:

You no paying attention ... noh? I been saying that for the past phive ears ... noh? Guru log bethela ider ... mahaguru log. Koyee PhD post graduate koyee three three time PhD kiyela koyee computer ke ustaad. Intelligentsias and intellectuals all ... apun pheel so insiginificantest in their presence.

Sutradarji, dont you ever wonder ... what the hell for is LLKC doing down below my arse?


I do feel sympathy for this guy. Why is it that people who have most to contribute get screwed left, right and center? Makes me puke ... pits, sucks bloody fo(king shit.

landyaBhai
March 22nd, 2005, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by Cooldude
Same here... Software engineers rule... :up:

Thanks for all the info on the books LandyaBhai.... :up:

There are two more books, if you want to revive your interest in mathematics ...

(1) What is mathematics ? An elementary approach to ideas and methods.

by Richard Courant, Herbert Robbins, and Ian Stewart.

(This book is actually a classic and best seller since 1941)

and the second book is about modern mathematics ...

(2) From here to Infinity.

by Ian Stewart.

These books are written in very simple and logical way and they are the best for any budding mathematician or laymen like us.

Check these out ...They must be available in the local library ...

Enjoy the beauty of mathematics.

--LandYA :up:

dhurandhar
March 22nd, 2005, 06:56 PM
cha pai....I propose that you open a new forum on "Mathematics and Sciences" with our beloved Landya as moderator

Charchila
March 22nd, 2005, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by dhurandhar
cha pai....I propose that you open a new forum on "Mathematics and Sciences" with our beloved Landya as moderator

Then Samaj Shastra :p

landyaBhai
March 23rd, 2005, 12:18 PM
Although this news is old ... check out the description of the problem ...

-------


A team from the Indian Institute of Technology (IIT) in Kanpur, India, has devised a novel approach for detecting primes. The new technique solves a long-standing problem in number theory and computer science, providing a long-sought improvement in the theoretical efficiency of prime-detecting algorithms.


Check out the link:

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20021026/bob9.asp

-------


If anybody is interested in the paper, PM me, I can send you the original version.

rameshp
March 23rd, 2005, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by landyaBhai
yep me too ... Mathematica and Matlab :up:

i am forced to use maple in my calculus II class (even in my Calculus I class too last semister). and being a math major, i am supposed to be comfortable with maple!:rolleyes: it costs me 15% of my grade! seems like math profs love maple.

anyway, abt the website, it is really good.
i generally use mathnerds.com (http://www.mathnerds.com/mathnerds/)

the founder of this site was Dr.Ted Mahavier, whose the prof under whom i have an RA. there is actually a new website thats gonna come up. this has lots of math papers, mainly in multidimension (>3D world). we are right now in the process of getting them converted to tex (for permanent retention).

dhurandhar
March 23rd, 2005, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by rameshp
i am forced to use maple in my calculus II class (even in my Calculus I class too last semister). and being a math major, i am supposed to be comfortable with maple!:rolleyes: it costs me 15% of my grade! seems like math profs love maple.

anyway, abt the website, it is really good.
i generally use mathnerds.com (http://www.mathnerds.com/mathnerds/)

the founder of this site was Dr.Ted Mahavier, whose the prof under whom i have an RA. there is actually a new website thats gonna come up. this has lots of math papers, mainly in multidimension (>3D world). we are right now in the process of getting them converted to tex (for permanent retention).

is your textbook the one by James Stewart or by Edwards and Penney? Just curious:D

Also, if you are an RA....don't you have to be atleast a senior undergrad or first level grad student to be one??:confused:

rameshp
March 23rd, 2005, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by dhurandhar
is your textbook the one by James Stewart or by Edwards and Penney? Just curious:D

Also, if you are an RA....don't you have to be atleast a senior undergrad or first level grad student to be one??:confused:

the book we use is Calculus by James Stewart ( one huge book weighing around 10lbs:mad: ).

yeah, to be an RA, u need to be atleast a senior but even though i am an undergrad (freshman) i got it probably coz there arent many seniors or american grads who are interested in this stuff (i really dont know y coz my prof pays a good $10/hr) and the NSF, the funding agency, has restrictions on employing foriegn grad students for this project (again, i dont know the reason but it turned out good for me). and finally the work i do is mostly organising this books, converting in tex format, proofing and graphics in tex. so its like u dont need to know a lot of mathematics (infact, you need to have a very good knowledge of latex esp graphics part).

dhurandhar
March 23rd, 2005, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by rameshp
the book we use is Calculus by James Stewart ( one huge book weighing around 10lbs:mad: ).



now you will hate me for what I have to say

If you saw how most of engineers here learnt our calculus from Wartikar & Wartikar or Grewal or Shanti Narayan....or those who were more fortunate/rich used Kreyzig or Wylie & Barrett.....that 10lb thingy would seem like spoon feeding to you...atleast it does to me:D

I personally think, it is one of the best books on undergraduate calculus that i have seen...accompanied by student solution manual for odd number problems...

I think you must have had an awful math instructor or that you are more suited for non math majors:D

rameshp
March 23rd, 2005, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by dhurandhar
now you will hate me for what I have to say

If you saw how most of engineers here learnt our calculus from Wartikar & Wartikar or Grewal or Shanti Narayan....or those who were more fortunate/rich used Kreyzig or Wylie & Barrett.....that 10lb thingy would seem like spoon feeding to you...atleast it does to me:D

I personally think, it is one of the best books on undergraduate calculus that i have seen...accompanied by student solution manual for odd number problems...

I think you must have had an awful math instructor or that you are more suited for non math majors:D

well it doesnt really matter coz most of the calculus is a cakewalk for me here( i find it really amusing when my classmates keep asking the instructor to repeat every godamm step and sometimes things as elementary as 1/x = x^(-1)). i prepared for iitjee in india and i do believe i have a good depth in calc and math as a whole. i used TMH(tata mcgraw hill) and shantinarayan and some other books during my 11th and 12th.
the instructor is pretty ok and math is my secondary major(which i will eventually drop and probably would take up something nearer to CS, ur suggestions are welcome), CS being my primary major. so it doesnt really matter upto calc 2 but from calc 3 and furthur i will need to work my a*s off.:smash:

dhurandhar
March 23rd, 2005, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by rameshp
well it doesnt really matter coz most of the calculus is a cakewalk for me here( i find it really amusing when my classmates keep asking the instructor to repeat every godamm step and sometimes things as elementary as 1/x = x^(-1)). i prepared for iitjee in india and i do believe i have a good depth in calc and math as a whole. i used TMH(tata mcgraw hill) and shantinarayan and some other books during my 11th and 12th.
the instructor is pretty ok and math is my secondary major(which i will eventually drop and probably would take up something nearer to CS, ur suggestions are welcome), CS being my primary major. so it doesnt really matter upto calc 2 but from calc 3 and furthur i will need to work my a*s off.:smash:

doing calc is one thing and understanding is another.....the best way to verify that you understood what theorems of calc mean is to write the math jargon in plain words and try to help your classmates understand what is the "idea" behind the theorem....

alternatively, you can attempt "discovery" problems in the textbook which require sound understanding of fundamentals to be able to discover some different features/properties of functions etc. This would actually be in spirit of the website you are working for:D

If you really understood the calc concepts....you can use them in CS major or any other major that you might take..that's the beauty of math....a fistful of concepts that holds different ideas of science together:D

rameshp
March 23rd, 2005, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by dhurandhar
doing calc is one thing and understanding is another.....the best way to verify that you understood what theorems of calc mean is to write the math jargon in plain words and try to help your classmates understand what is the "idea" behind the theorem....

alternatively, you can attempt "discovery" problems in the textbook which require sound understanding of fundamentals to be able to discover some different features/properties of functions etc. This would actually be in spirit of the website you are working for:D

thankx. too much calc is very less C++. so off with calc for now. anyway, what do u suggest for a secondary major?(other then math ofcourse).

dhurandhar
March 23rd, 2005, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by rameshp
thankx. too much calc is very less C++. so off with calc for now. anyway, what do u suggest for a secondary major?(other then math ofcourse).

depends on what you want to do in life.....if I were you I would take a applied science/engineering minor to be connected to reality....realizing that the nanotech etc is on the horizon....physics or chemistry major might be a good idea