Shia v/s Sunni: who's right

[dhurandhar]

What I have read (from Allamah Tabatabai's book on Shi'ism) is that Prophet Muhammed had specifically mentioned Imam Ali as embodiment of Truth and the inheritor/successor after him because he was the first person with whom Muhammed revealed the Quran and Imam Ali volunteered to become the momeen (believer)...also in case of arbitration Muhammed said that out of 10 parts of arbitration..9 belonged to Imam Ali as he could do no wrong while 1 belonged to populace (shura)....

Inspite of this after Muhammed passed away.....Imam Ali was sidelined by Umar, Bakr et al and Islam was hijacked:D:D

So, I believe that Shi'ism is probably as close as real Islam could get and Sunni'ism is the heresy:D:D

Echarchans are welcome to post their rational thoughts..please provide links/references for your arguments:D:D

[dhurandhar]

I am in obsessive compulsive mood:D:D

will keep pushing this thread up until I get at least 5 replies from those who follow Islam (shia or sunni):D:D

will be back later:D

[Budmaas]

Wishing Everyone a Happy Eid Mubarak !!!

"Have A Most Blessed Festival Of Nature"
We ALL Pray for Humanity: "Peace for all happening at the present and future time."

A History of Islamic Legal Theories : An Introduction to Sunni Usul al Fiqh (Wael B. Hallaq)
.............


Link (http://store.yahoo.com/talkislam/b7603.html)

[dhurandhar]

Originally posted by Budmaas
Wishing Everyone a Happy Eid Mubarak !!!

"Have A Most Blessed Festival Of Nature"
We ALL Pray for Humanity: "Peace for all happening at the present and future time."

A History of Islamic Legal Theories : An Introduction to Sunni Usul al Fiqh (Wael B. Hallaq)
.............


Link (http://store.yahoo.com/talkislam/b7603.html)

I am not asking for legal theories...I am asking for correct spiritual theory...in other words...do Sunni muslims agree that Prophet Muhammed chose Ali as his successor or not??

If not, why not? Budmaas please refer to proper source...:D

Because Sunni muslims try to do as Muhammed does rather than do what he says (i.e follow Imam Ali after I am gone).....I believe Sunni system is a deviation from real Islam...or heresy:D:D:D

[Desa]

Originally posted by dhurandhar
I am not asking for legal theories...I am asking for correct spiritual theory...in other words...do Sunni muslims agree that Prophet Muhammed chose Ali as his successor or not??

If not, why not? Budmaas please refer to proper source...:D

Because Sunni muslims try to do as Muhammed does rather than do what he says (i.e follow Imam Ali after I am gone).....I believe Sunni system is a deviation from real Islam...or heresy:D:D:D

Prophet Muhammed, as per my knowledge, did not appoint any successor. The decision of who would be his successor was made after his death where a council in Medina chose Abu Bakr as successor. This was accepted even by Ali. Therefore, a sunni system is in no way a deviation from real Islam.

[Budmaas]

Originally posted by dhurandhar
I am not asking for legal theories...I am asking for correct spiritual theory...in other words...do Sunni muslims agree that Prophet Muhammed chose Ali as his successor or not??

If not, why not? Budmaas please refer to proper source...:D

Because Sunni muslims try to do as Muhammed does rather than do what he says (i.e follow Imam Ali after I am gone).....I believe Sunni system is a deviation from real Islam...or heresy:D:D:D
:)
For me .. discussing on Religion is like Hot Potato.....
About you only I can say that either you are ( Khatmal or roadside idiot = Shia) .. .....!!!

j/k ...
I'm not very religious yaar sorry

:up: :down:

[dhurandhar]

Originally posted by Desa
Prophet Muhammed, as per my knowledge, did not appoint any successor. The decision of who would be his successor was made after his death where a council in Medina chose Abu Bakr as successor. This was accepted even by Ali. Therefore, a sunni system is in no way a deviation from real Islam.

that is Sunni side of the story.....Shia believe otherwise...it was because of Ali that Islam could manage to survive and thrive in Saudi Arabia and spread upto Iraq:D:D

One of the dark secrets about history of Islam is that Abu Bakr was scared senseless while hiding from polytheist marauders:D:D....on the other hand Imam Ali always took the most difficult tasks that even Muhammed would be scared to do...like Muhammed asking Ali to sleep in his bed while he would flee elsewhere so assasins would think they are going to murder Muhammed....:D

[dhurandhar]

wmac....where are you??:D:D:D

[echarcha]

I saw this thread today. I can only give you the age old echarcha message - Please ensure that you dont step on any toes and hurt anyone's personal beliefs and relgious sentiments whether purposely or inadvertently.

[dhurandhar]

or alternatively speaking.....do you really believe that God can give commands or relay messages to a bunch of people (called sunnah)....or going by the religious norm (as in most religions) God chooses a particular person (a.k.a imam in the case for shi'a) for delivering messages or guidance to populace??


echarchans who follow Islam may kindly post their differences or agreements with my questions/statements:D:D

[Indian]

i am right that you are wrong ! :D

[viruss]

Originally posted by Indian
i am right that you are wrong ! :D

you r rite beacuse i am not rong, but right is left & left is always right... :D

[dhurandhar]

Originally posted by Indian
i am right that you are wrong ! :D

could you be so kind as to provide rationale for your statement??:D:D

[dhurandhar]

wmac...I am waiting to hear your opinion, thoughts on this issue:D:D

[wmac]

dhurandhar,

I just saw your PM.

This is the exact difference between shia and sunni. Shia people think that Prophet Muhammed specified Ali as the person who is suitable to manage things after him while sunnis think he has not determined anyone.

While most of the islamic world is covered by sunnis there are something arround 200-300 millions of shias living in Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Syria, Afghanistan etc.

And I am not sure if you have quoted exact words of "Allame Tabatabaee" but he has been one of the most famous folks of shia which died about 15 years ago.

Regards,
Mac

[Budmaas]

Originally posted by wmac
dhurandhar,

I just saw your PM.

This is the exact difference between shia and sunni. Shia people think that Prophet Muhammed specified Ali as the person who is suitable to manage things after him while sunnis think he has not determined anyone.

While most of the islamic world is covered by sunnis there are something arround 200-300 millions of shias living in Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Syria, Afghanistan etc.

And I am not sure if you have quoted exact words of "Allame Tabatabaee" but he has been one of the most famous folks of shia which died about 15 years ago.

Regards,
Mac
:down:
No .. you didn't ..please explain in detail with exact link...I know you are from Iran but don't dare to say anything in favour of Shia.
Tell the truth only..........You can imagine that who could dare to ask you this thing.
:o

[wmac]

Originally posted by dhurandhar
that is Sunni side of the story.....Shia believe otherwise...it was because of Ali that Islam could manage to survive and thrive in Saudi Arabia and spread upto Iraq:D:D

.......on the other hand Imam Ali always took the most difficult tasks that even Muhammed would be scared to do...like Muhammed asking Ali to sleep in his bed while he would flee elsewhere so assasins would think they are going to murder Muhammed....:D

Yes, these are some of the reasons we shias believe Ali has really been Imam.

Some of his words (Complete lectures have been gathered in th old book "Nahjolbalaghe") :

http://www.shia.org/sayings.html

Life History:

http://www.shia.org/ali.html

Nahjolbalaghe:

http://www.al-islam.org/nahjul/index.htm

Some reference sites:

http://www.imamalinet.net/en/indexe.htm

Regards,
Mac

[wmac]

Originally posted by Budmaas
Tell the truth only..........You can imagine that who could dare to ask you this thing.
[/B]

Budmaas,

Real thing is that I really belive him (Ali). I really believe when Mohammad has taken care of Islam for so many years and he always used to ask muslims to write down something for relatives to read after your death then how is it possible that he has not thought about future of Islam after him.

He has left Islam and people for themselves after so much trouble, wars etc...? This is why we shias are sure that he has chosen someone to manage things.

For the reasons we shias think are firm enough we believe that person has bin Ali. His life has been full of things that makes me more sure of my opinion. "Oppose the oppressor and support the oppressed". This is the philosophy of Shia.

There is a cabala called "hadise Ghadire Khum" which quotes that at that day Prophet Muhammad told that Ali will be the person who will lead islam after him.


GHADIR : A festival of the Shi'ahs on the 18th of the month of Zu'l-HijjahThe festival is named Ghadir, "a pool", and the festival commemorates, it is said, Muhammad having declared 'Ali his successor at Ghadir Khum, a watering place midway between Makkah and al-Madinah.


This is what we shias believe in it but sunnis not.

This quote is the most fundamental thing which makes us believe into Ali being Imam and Shia being true.

Regards,
Mac

[Budmaas]

Originally posted by wmac
Budmaas,

He has left Islam and people for themselves after so much trouble, wars etc...? This is why we shias are sure that he has chosen someone to manage things.

Regards,
Mac
:smash:

Thats why we hate you - hate you - hate you (sorry dear bug )

You people adjust & make everything for your pleasure.
Please don't misguide the momins. Go your way aside & let the muslims live peacefully.
Whatever is going on these was not given by our prophet. It is the result of your way of following & belief.

please don't blame Him...
read more our holy Book //Hadeeth where is written many more prophecies.. going to happen soon in near future.
:smash: :smash:

[wmac]

Originally posted by Budmaas
:smash:

Thats why we hate you - hate you - hate you (sorry dear bug )

You people adjust & make everything for your pleasure.
Please don't misguide the momins. Go your way aside & let the muslims live peacefully.
Whatever is going on these was not given by our prophet. It is the result of your way of following & belief.

please don't blame Him...
read more our holy Book //Hadeeth where is written many more prophecies.. going to happen soon in near future.
:smash: :smash:

:confused: :confused: :confused:

[wmac]

I don't hate anyone, not Hindus, Not Sunnis not even clear and good jews.

I just hate "spreading hate", it does not matter who does this. George Bush, Saddam , Bin Ladan or anyone else.

I am very sorry to see that you folks have forced me (or aksed me) to write down my opinions and Budmass has attacked to me in such a way.

dhurandhar, this was what you wanted?

Budmass, I really don't think what to tell you man....

Mac

[ShivSainik]

Originally posted by wmac
I don't hate anyone, not Hindus, Not Sunnis not even clear and good jews.

I just hate "spreading hate", it does not matter who does this. George Bush, Saddam , Bin Ladan or anyone else.

I am very sorry to see that you folks have forced me (or aksed me) to write down my opinions and Budmass has attacked to me in such a way.

dhurandhar, this was what you wanted?

Budmass, I really don't think what to tell you man....

Mac

Compared to this post(Shia) and Budmass post(Sunni) I can say that Shias are better :D

Jokes apart very good post wmac :up:

[ShivSainik]

I dont know how true it is but people used to whisper this during riots that whoever from hindus side were rioting were self-restrained from attacking Shias and Boharis as they are mild and less extreme than Sunnis (these are not my views :D). Even Shias and Boharis restrain themselves from participating into rioting activities.

Infact in our area only *one* muslim owned shop was not broken during riots and that was owned by Bohari !

This doesn't say whether Shias are better or sunnis are better but just my 2 cents.

[dhurandhar]

Originally posted by wmac
I don't hate anyone, not Hindus, Not Sunnis not even clear and good jews.

I just hate "spreading hate", it does not matter who does this. George Bush, Saddam , Bin Ladan or anyone else.

I am very sorry to see that you folks have forced me (or aksed me) to write down my opinions and Budmass has attacked to me in such a way.

dhurandhar, this was what you wanted?

Budmass, I really don't think what to tell you man....

Mac

Dear mac....no this was not what I expected....Budmaas is not even a muslim as per his acknowledgement...so don't worry about that:D

I am not a moderator...so once I start a thread I don't have control over it.

I respect your opinions as they come from somebody who believes or practices in Shi'ism....:D:D..but on this website its very unpredictable....threads get derailed depending on the general mood of the public or of the derailer...i myself have been guilty of that on several occasions:D:D:D

But atleast I made it clear that this was a intellectual type thread right from the start....what else could I do??

I feel very sorry for what you feel considering Budmaas' post because it was I who "forced" you to respond:( .....my apologies for your hurt feelings

[loverboy260]

not to put my foot in my mouth! but u know dhurru, these shias who believe in "ALi" more then anything, how is it that they plotted against one of his SONS with kafirs to get him killed! i mean if YOU love someone then you wouldnt kill their sons would u! nice way of showing you love Ali! (peace be upon him!) :rolleyes:

and this is the reason shias "hit themselves" in muharamm the 9-11!!!!!

and Sunni is right and shia is wrong for the reason stated above. also Abu bakr (peace be upon him) was chosen because he was brave, he would sacrifice everything for God and His prophet (peace be upon him).
you know when Abu bakr and Prophet (peace be upon him) were hiding in a cave. there was a hole in a cave, and Abu bakr put his foot to cover the hole so that no insect can come in. and there was this snake who bit him and when Prophet (peace be upon him) found out he asked the snake why he bit Abu bakr (peace be upon him) and snake said he was stopping me from seeing you so i had to bit him. so Prophet (peace be upon him) put his saliva where Abu bakr (peace be upon him) was bitten and he became fine after that.

i am not sayin who was more brave Ali (pbuh) or Abu bakr(pbuh) if you look at the bravery alone, OMER (pbuh) was more brave. Prophet (pbuh) made dua to God that make either Omer (pbuh) or abu jandal Muslim as they were the powerful people of the time, and God chose Omer (pbuh) to be a Muslim!

in another: there was a time when people were required to make donations and Prophet (pbuh) called Omer (pbuh) and said what have u given and he replied i have left half of my property/money at home and half i have given as a donation. when it was turn of Abu bakr, he replied i have given everything except God and His Prophet (peace be upon him)


ALSO: disrespecting any PROPHET! is a bad thing! They all have their status, but that dont mean that one prophet is Worse or coward. the reason that they were all prophets were because they would do anything for GOD!

and as for sunni/shia debate: we are supposed to look for hadiths (these can also be narrated by other prophets such as Ali/Abubakr peace be upon them) and Quran to follow in our daily life, if we cannot find any then the ULMAs/IMAM who have immense knowledge can "make up". for example if there is nothing in hadith or Quran about taking photos, then these Imams can get together and make up! this is allowed. also even before doing this if we find prophets (abubakr.Omer etc) have actually said something about photos then we are supposed to act on that, then our Imam cant make up! (by making up i dont mean make up anything they feel like, as i said get together discuss and then following sunnah/hadith etc make up a reasonable solution)

[loverboy260]

Also when Prophet (pbuh) asked Ali to sleep in his bed, do u know what Prophet (pbuh) said to Ali "SEE YOU TOMORROW" and ALi (pbuh) was happy because he knew that meant that there is NO WAY any one can kill him now.

[loverboy260]

and budmass if u r not really a Muslim please dont say anything! how would u feel if i start giving advice on ur religion! when i dont know nothing!
and whoever said about ABubakr (pbuh) shitting his paints, is wrong as i have proved above! but please refrain from using this kind of rubbish! as it is hurtful! and in future if echarcha/moderator find this can they please remove that message! because how would u feel if i started slagging your (not moderators but the echarchan who post somethin bad about others religion) religion

[dhurandhar]

Originally posted by loverboy260
not to put my foot in my mouth! but u know dhurru, these shias who believe in "ALi" more then anything, how is it that they plotted against one of his SONS with kafirs to get him killed! i mean if YOU love someone then you wouldnt kill their sons would u! nice way of showing you love Ali! (peace be upon him!) :rolleyes:

and this is the reason shias "hit themselves" in muharamm the 9-11!!!!!

and Sunni is right and shia is wrong for the reason stated above. also Abu bakr (peace be upon him) was chosen because he was brave, he would sacrifice everything for God and His prophet (peace be upon him).
you know when Abu bakr and Prophet (peace be upon him) were hiding in a cave. there was a hole in a cave, and Abu bakr put his foot to cover the hole so that no insect can come in. and there was this snake who bit him and when Prophet (peace be upon him) found out he asked the snake why he bit Abu bakr (peace be upon him) and snake said he was stopping me from seeing you so i had to bit him. so Prophet (peace be upon him) put his saliva where Abu bakr (peace be upon him) was bitten and he became fine after that.

i am not sayin who was more brave Ali (pbuh) or Abu bakr(pbuh) if you look at the bravery alone, OMER (pbuh) was more brave. Prophet (pbuh) made dua to God that make either Omer (pbuh) or abu jandal Muslim as they were the powerful people of the time, and God chose Omer (pbuh) to be a Muslim!

in another: there was a time when people were required to make donations and Prophet (pbuh) called Omer (pbuh) and said what have u given and he replied i have left half of my property/money at home and half i have given as a donation. when it was turn of Abu bakr, he replied i have given everything except God and His Prophet (peace be upon him)


ALSO: disrespecting any PROPHET! is a bad thing! They all have their status, but that dont mean that one prophet is Worse or coward. the reason that they were all prophets were because they would do anything for GOD!

and as for sunni/shia debate: we are supposed to look for hadiths (these can also be narrated by other prophets such as Ali/Abubakr peace be upon them) and Quran to follow in our daily life, if we cannot find any then the ULMAs/IMAM who have immense knowledge can "make up". for example if there is nothing in hadith or Quran about taking photos, then these Imams can get together and make up! this is allowed. also even before doing this if we find prophets (abubakr.Omer etc) have actually said something about photos then we are supposed to act on that, then our Imam cant make up! (by making up i dont mean make up anything they feel like, as i said get together discuss and then following sunnah/hadith etc make up a reasonable solution)

where did you hear all these fairy tales??:D:D....all that you have mentioned is a false propaganda..fabricated to malign Shi'ism...not to be found in authentic texts or treatises on Islam:D:D

there never was nor there is going to be any Muslim braver than Ali...period:D:D.....It was only due to Ali that Islam survived in Arabia...Ali never stepped back nor conspired against his enemies...he just destroyed them...regardless of their size and prowess....even Sunni's have a war cry of Ya Ali....not Ya Bakr or Ya Omer:D:D

LB....to make a rational argument...these stories don't help...I agree that I went a bit too far describing Bakr as not quite brave...but this is exactly what I have heard from some Sunni's as well...may be its just hearsay:D

[dhurandhar]

Originally posted by loverboy260



ALSO: disrespecting any PROPHET! is a bad thing! They all have their status, but that dont mean that one prophet is Worse or coward. the reason that they were all prophets were because they would do anything for GOD!

and as for sunni/shia debate: we are supposed to look for hadiths (these can also be narrated by other prophets such as Ali/Abubakr peace be upon them) and Quran to follow in our daily life, if we cannot find any then the ULMAs/IMAM who have immense knowledge can "make up". for example if there is nothing in hadith or Quran about taking photos, then these Imams can get together and make up! this is allowed. also even before doing this if we find prophets (abubakr.Omer etc) have actually said something about photos then we are supposed to act on that, then our Imam cant make up! (by making up i dont mean make up anything they feel like, as i said get together discuss and then following sunnah/hadith etc make up a reasonable solution)

I don't believe that prophets are democratically elected...I refuse to recognize anyone but Ali after Muhammed....:D:D. In all religions you see that a successor is appointed by the current prophet or there is no successor...but not a DEMOCRATICALLY elected successor:rolleyes:...spiritual matters are not a joke...only master can know another master...not a bunch of students:D:D

[loverboy260]

Originally posted by dhurandhar
I don't believe that prophets are democratically elected...I refuse to recognize anyone but Ali after Muhammed....:D:D. In all religions you see that a successor is appointed by the current prophet or there is no successor...but not a DEMOCRATICALLY elected successor:rolleyes:...spiritual matters are not a joke...only master can know another master...not a bunch of students:D:D

ARE YOU A MUSLIM? NO, so what gives u the right and come and malign our religion. If after Prophet's dead, They chose the one who was more KNOWLEDGEABLE etc who is Abubakr. so why are u getting so worked up that its not ALI!!!!!! and even if they chose Abu bakr of no reason etc, and everyone accepted it so whats it to u!!! Not even ALi questioned! because it was for the best!
so what other reason is there for Shias to beat themselves up in moharram 9-11!!!!???? and whats with :D :D ??? are u getting happy that u r making a mockery of my religion!
i think ANY Moderator should delete your messages or THIS POST! end of!

[pakkidost]

Originally posted by loverboy260
ARE YOU A MUSLIM? NO, so what gives u the right and come and malign our religion. If after Prophet's dead, They chose the one who was more KNOWLEDGEABLE etc who is Abubakr. so why are u getting so worked up that its not ALI!!!!!! and even if they chose Abu bakr of no reason etc, and everyone accepted it so whats it to u!!! Not even ALi questioned! because it was for the best!
so what other reason is there for Shias to beat themselves up in moharram 9-11!!!!???? and whats with :D :D ??? are u getting happy that u r making a mockery of my religion!
i think ANY Moderator should delete your messages or THIS POST! end of!

loverboy... i am not a musluim but i come from a muslim majority city in India. I find this thread rather interesting. if you think dhurandher or budmass are wrong prove it with sound reasons. They are proving their point of view and so you are. they are saying what they know. If you think they are wrong take this thread as an opportunity to convince them. Try not to loose your cool and still prove your point. this is an opportunity for you to enlighten us non muslims about something we dont know.

[IA]

LB when someone dies in your family what you do go on the streets and celebrate? I don't think so. I believe that you sit at home and just cry in his rememberance and do some matam (may be).

The only reason shia's/bohri's beat themself is to morn for the death in family. I hope i made my point here.

And JFYI I follow Bohra religion which dose not either follow the footprints of shia's or sunni's although shia's and bohri's have lot in common but still there is some difference.


Dhur Pai nice thread but i believe that you have rubbed on the wrong foot for the followers of Islam (shia/sunni).

[Budmaas]

wmac - you are from Iran ..............personally I have no problem but on the matter of Religion , I'm not going to follow or accept whetever you say.

Loverboy - is already proved idiot in many posts of EC.He has questions more than he replies & all of them are either nonsence or his benefit related. I know you are Puki living in Lond-on.You are III class wahabi who never get respect even in their pukiland nor anywhere in this whole world.

Dhurru - is another vagabond who has no realtino with any religion except money.Making issue & laughing at them is job-handjob.

Me... I'm never discuss about religion bcoz i know it is well & wisely put. I can't make any changes except getting missguidence after discussing here.

Stay away... & Keep smiling.............I'm not good person... rest my Id says all.

I 'm here to smile & laugh not to get headaches. :rooleyes:

read more here about - Shia-Sunni - Wahabi (http://www.echarcha.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=16470)

[Dhurandhar Bhat]

Shia abd sunni both are right and both are as good muslims as shivites and vaishnavites are good hindus....

Every sunni loves and respects Ahalal Bait or people who belong to the family of the prophet..every muslim say these words in his prayer....wa ala aali muhammadinv...meaning ......and of the family of muhammad.....all muslims ask to bless muhammad/ibrahim and their family...in these verses at least five times a day..

Allahuma salle aala muhammadivn wa ala aali muhammadivn innaaka hamidum majid...allahuma barikala ibrahim wa ala aali ibrahim innaka hamidum majid....

muslims know about the above...so there is no question of any loss of love or hatred for Imam Ali or Fatima or ayesha or Hasan or hussain..(Peace be on all of them)....

There are differences in all religions Islam also has...but Muslims are living with them for centuries now...there is agrowing movement for Ittehad or unity among various sects...but some people lead by Iblis always try to divert muslims from the main message..

I believe and I'am not a wahabi...that the message is important not the messenger,,,whether i mail you thru yahoo or hotmail does not matter as long as you get it.....its the junk mail which is annoying....and there are always people to send you junk mail..like the impotent man of echarcha...(no offense)

[nayasavera]

Good post Dhurru. (Bhat not :D waala)

Those who cursed those belonging to other sects or passed absurd comments reg. their beliefs in this thread are the chewtiyaas of highest order.

The most fascinating feature of this religion is the concept of universal brotherhood. This thread makes a mockery of it.

Muhammad (PBUH) said once 'A Muslim who considers another Muslim, anything but a Muslim , does not belong to my Ummah' (The words might be different, but the msg is the same. He was referring to the factions among the believers and he prolly foresaw the forthcoming divide).

[Budmaas]

Originally posted by nayasavera
Good post Dhurru. (Bhat not :D waala)

Those who cursed those belonging to other sects or passed absurd comments reg. their beliefs in this thread are the chewtiyaas of highest order.

The most fascinating feature of this religion is the concept of universal brotherhood. This thread makes a mockery of it.

Muhammad (PBUH) said once 'A Muslim who considers another Muslim, anything but a Muslim , does not belong to my Ummah' (The words might be different, but the msg is the same. He was referring to the factions among the believers and he prolly foresaw the forthcoming divide).

yes nayaUjala...

I am always in favour of proving who is good or woh is bad.I believe in " Live & Let live ..... & **** & sleep."
but
This Lovedey ka boy . . started such thread with hot issues that has no solution except confusing or fight because everyone wil ltry to prove his religion right & the best.
ANYway forget it & let's back to normal


:clap: :clap:

[dhurandhar]

Originally posted by Dhurandhar Bhat
Shia abd sunni both are right and both are as good muslims as shivites and vaishnavites are good hindus....

Every sunni loves and respects Ahalal Bait or people who belong to the family of the prophet..every muslim say these words in his prayer....wa ala aali muhammadinv...meaning ......and of the family of muhammad.....all muslims ask to bless muhammad/ibrahim and their family...in these verses at least five times a day..

Allahuma salle aala muhammadivn wa ala aali muhammadivn innaaka hamidum majid...allahuma barikala ibrahim wa ala aali ibrahim innaka hamidum majid....

muslims know about the above...so there is no question of any loss of love or hatred for Imam Ali or Fatima or ayesha or Hasan or hussain..(Peace be on all of them)....

There are differences in all religions Islam also has...but Muslims are living with them for centuries now...there is agrowing movement for Ittehad or unity among various sects...but some people lead by Iblis always try to divert muslims from the main message..

I believe and I'am not a wahabi...that the message is important not the messenger,,,whether i mail you thru yahoo or hotmail does not matter as long as you get it.....its the junk mail which is annoying....and there are always people to send you junk mail..like the impotent man of echarcha...(no offense)

bhat....the question is why or how would God deliver message to multitude of people (Sunnah?) versus a chosen one (Imam?)

this is what it all boils down into...my question is quite fundamental.....in almost all religions the master chooses his successor...its not a democratic process...so why do you think Muhammed would leave a void??

did Muhammed specifically say that make a committee and decide for yourself....I believe its unlikely...as a true prophet Muhammed would never do that...and so I find it quite obvious that Muhammed would have chosen Ali because Ali never doubted Muhammed...also Ali had divine possessions....but to my knowledge nowhere it is mentioned that Bakr or Omar had such divine possessions....even Muhammed underwent divine possessions and that is how holy Qur'an was dictated to him or flowed out of him:D:D

as to LoverBoy's question....you don't own Islam..so if you don't have rationale in support of your statements..it just reflects you are just a sheep...as for me I care for TRUTH...no matter how hurt I get in the process or how much I hurt others...because eventually TRUTH prevails:D:D

[dhurandhar]

Originally posted by Budmaas


Dhurru - is another vagabond who has no realtino with any religion except money.Making issue & laughing at them is job-handjob.

read more here about - Shia-Sunni - Wahabi (http://www.echarcha.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=16470)

Budmaas...I disagree with your opinion of myself:D:D

It would be more accurate to say that:

Dhurru - is another vagabond who has no relation with any religion except TRUTH. Exposing confusing/fraudulent/paradoxical issues & laughing at them is his job

[Dhurandhar Bhat]

Originally posted by dhurandhar
bhat....the question is why or how would God deliver message to multitude of people (Sunnah?) versus a chosen one (Imam?)

this is what it all boils down into...my question is quite fundamental.....in almost all religions the master chooses his successor...its not a democratic process...so why do you think Muhammed would leave a void??

did Muhammed specifically say that make a committee and decide for yourself....I believe its unlikely...as a true prophet Muhammed would never do that...and so I find it quite obvious that Muhammed would have chosen Ali because Ali never doubted Muhammed...also Ali had divine possessions....but to my knowledge nowhere it is mentioned that Bakr or Omar had such divine possessions....even Muhammed underwent divine possessions and that is how holy Qur'an was dictated to him or flowed out of him:D:D

as to LoverBoy's question....you don't own Islam..so if you don't have rationale in support of your statements..it just reflects you are just a sheep...as for me I care for TRUTH...no matter how hurt I get in the process or how much I hurt others...because eventually TRUTH prevails:D:D

first god never delivered message to any Imam.....that is the difference betweeen Imama and prophet....(if you think otherwise its your problem)

secondly Muhammad never chose anyone he left this decision to the sahabas whom he trusted....(if you think otherwise its your ego...)

Ali had no devine possessions kindly let me know what they are exactly if you think otherwise...

The truth of the matter is Islam is all about unity,consensus and fair ,justice ....which it acheived considering arabs where what they were before and after Islam..a much improved lot...this difference is very minute considering the massive bloody battles before.....

The truth is somewhere else..not in finding slightest of minus points in someone.....attacking Islam by finding faults in any human being will never succeed,Quran itself says about the drawbacks of human beings....it also says not to give status to any human being more than he deserves..not like god certainly...
so you find no images or photographs of these great sahabas or Imams.....they all beleived in one thing that.........The message of Islam is greator than any of them......be peace be on all of them...

Still dragging or cribbing about these..will make me think otherwise...about you....:D :D :D

[rationalthinker]

religion is politics in the name of god.
mohammad (pbuh) started a great thing.If handled properly(a.k.a. Nehru/Gandhi dynasty) future generations of his 'successors' would have had been able to live comfortably for as long as the 'philosophy' survived (like Sydna,Aga Khan etc..)
So this 'effort' to be the 'true' followers of Mohammad (pbuh).
All religions have outlived their utility. Its time mankind moved ahead on UNIVERSALLY accepted principals and doctrines of what is good, desirable and practicable.

[chirag2000]

Originally posted by dhurandhar
Shia v/s Sunni: who's right

:D None of em :D

BTW.... I always tease a muslim frnd of mine of shias being very nice ppl esp bohris ... And bohri women ..haaay... they are more beautifull than all indian women (perhaps they are).. & that infuriates him to no extent... :D

Ive known a few bohris... & they come across as very street smart businessmen... pehle dhanda ane pacchi dharam is their motto

[Dhurandhar Bhat]

Originally posted by rationalthinker
religion is politics in the name of god.
mohammad (pbuh) started a great thing.If handled properly(a.k.a. Nehru/Gandhi dynasty) future generations of his 'successors' would have had been able to live comfortably for as long as the 'philosophy' survived (like Sydna,Aga Khan etc..)
So this 'effort' to be the 'true' followers of Mohammad (pbuh).
All religions have outlived their utility. Its time mankind moved ahead on UNIVERSALLY accepted principals and doctrines of what is good, desirable and practicable.

lagta hai teren ko rational rashes kee beemari hai....

what is Universally accepted principals....zara bataiye..(.with caps off this time..)

what is good desirable practicable..zara bataiye..hum bhi to sunein...
waise naun mahin aap apni maan kee pet mein se bahr aaye...ye eik miracle nahin samjhte..practcally to aap kabhi paida hee nahin hote.....;) think about it...mind it ok..

[dhurandhar]

Originally posted by Dhurandhar Bhat
first god never delivered message to any Imam.....that is the difference betweeen Imama and prophet....(if you think otherwise its your problem)

secondly Muhammad never chose anyone he left this decision to the sahabas whom he trusted....(if you think otherwise its your ego...)

Ali had no devine possessions kindly let me know what they are exactly if you think otherwise...

The truth of the matter is Islam is all about unity,consensus and fair ,justice ....which it acheived considering arabs where what they were before and after Islam..a much improved lot...this difference is very minute considering the massive bloody battles before.....

The truth is somewhere else..not in finding slightest of minus points in someone.....attacking Islam by finding faults in any human being will never succeed,Quran itself says about the drawbacks of human beings....it also says not to give status to any human being more than he deserves..not like god certainly...
so you find no images or photographs of these great sahabas or Imams.....they all beleived in one thing that.........The message of Islam is greator than any of them......be peace be on all of them...

Still dragging or cribbing about these..will make me think otherwise...about you....:D :D :D

Read the books by the famous scholar Allamah Tabataba'i and you will know that this is not MY ego or MY thoughts....these are thoughts from a scholar who is reputed in the Islamic studies and research:D:D

If you cannot cite sources to what you are saying...its just reflects your ignorance and narrowmindedness:D

[dhurandhar]

bhat....this thread is to gauge how many followers of Islam (on EC) really strived/strive to learn the details of their religion and history thereof:D

[Dhurandhar Bhat]

Originally posted by dhurandhar
bhat....this thread is to gauge how many followers of Islam (on EC) really strived/strive to learn the details of their religion and history thereof:D

details...hmmm..yes exactly its the details....which some people are missing here...detail as to exactly give importance to what...

If you would have given importance to details of the teachings of quran..well....you would have thought otherwise...

[loverboy260]

Originally posted by pakkidost
loverboy... i am not a musluim but i come from a muslim majority city in India. I find this thread rather interesting. if you think dhurandher or budmass are wrong prove it with sound reasons. They are proving their point of view and so you are. they are saying what they know. If you think they are wrong take this thread as an opportunity to convince them. Try not to loose your cool and still prove your point. this is an opportunity for you to enlighten us non muslims about something we dont know.

ok sorry, but i was merely saying. say if i quote Holy Quran, are you going to read it and check what i have said is true? u will accept it? consequently if i say somethin gwithout quoting, it is still true (if i ever give my opinion in my religion i will state them) what ever i have said about ALi sleeping in the bed, Abu bakr giving his things, etc have been true.

budmass: i dont think i have said anything stupid in my post or atleast this thread. (if you cant say something nice please refrain) and i am not a WAHABI!!!!!! and certainly not a third class. but then if u think i am then u must be that aswell, since it takes one to know one!

and the people (shias) beating themselves it happens in PAKISTAN (stayed there for 10 YEARS!!!!!!) every moharram, i see people in the street crying and hitting themselves. so i know. and i dont think that God has given them special priveliges that all their relatives will die on moharram between 9-11! :rolleyes:

[Budmaas]

Originally posted by loverboy260
ok sorry,
budmass: i dont think i have said anything stupid in my post or atleast this thread. (if you cant say something nice please refrain) and i am not a WAHABI!!!!!! and certainly not a third class. but then if u think i am then u must be that aswell, since it takes one to know one!

and the people (shias) beating themselves it happens in PAKISTAN (stayed there for 10 YEARS!!!!!!) every moharram, i see people in the street crying and hitting themselves. so i know. and i dont think that God has given them special priveliges that all their relatives will die on moharram between 9-11! :rolleyes:

OK Good ..
Ab chup baith bay ..............:smash:

[tantric_yogi]

Originally posted by Budmaas
matter of Religion , I'm not going to follow or accept whetever you say.
wmac is presenting his views ... he is being gentle and not forcing himself down your throat either ...

I 'm here to smile & laugh not to get headaches. :rooleyes:
Excercising your brains gives you headache?
Most of us here for a smile and laughter ... but in the process if we can expand our knowledge ... anything wrong with that?

I think these few threads are going just fine ... I think.


:) Budmassji.

[max de Indiana]

religion is politics in the name of god.
mohammad (pbuh) started a great thing.If handled properly(a.k.a. Nehru/Gandhi dynasty) future generations of his 'successors' would have had been able to live comfortably for as long as the 'philosophy' survived (like Sydna,Aga Khan etc..)
So this 'effort' to be the 'true' followers of Mohammad (pbuh).
All religions have outlived their utility. Its time mankind moved ahead on UNIVERSALLY accepted principals and doctrines of what is good, desirable and practicable.

what is PBUH ?:confused:

[dhurandhar]

what is PBUH ?:confused:

Depending on who uses it, the following may apply:D


Peace Be Upon Him

or

Piss Be Upon Him

[max de Indiana]

Depending on who uses it, the following may apply:D


Peace Be Upon Him

or

Piss Be Upon Him

Difficult to belive:confused:
as mullah never use english words with prophet...

it shd have some arabic meaning ?