SachhaDesi
April 20th, 2001, 11:32 AM
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/003233.html
This is an excellent thread on BR. So far not many people have expressed their views. Would like to know your views.
=================
An important question needs to be asked related to the psychology of the indian peoples, i.e. the indian way of thinking.What you may ask does this have to do with a Strategic Forum? - well everything I say.
A peoples way of thinking is the basis for any strategies formulated, proposed, developed or put into action. The indian mentality is responsible for the actions of the government, indian media and its own peoples, and consequently can have a very direct and large bearing on her armed forces and the doctrines they embody.
I consider BR to be fairly indicative of the various reactions and beliefs present on the subcontinent today, and am continously perplexed by two things with regard to the postings on this forum, and consequently the bearing this has on our geopolitical and military strategies:
1. The constant fear of Nuclear war with TSP:
Almost any and all discusssions on any military strategy/response with TSP is tainted by an inordinate fear of Nuclear war. Almost every offensive option we have is negated, by some posters, because it may cause TSP to launch a Nuclear attack on us!!
If you stop and think for a moment you will notice how our military offensive doctrine has changed from the times of Sundarji and Operation Brasstacks, to present day. Where once there was at least, in theory, a plan to attack deep into TSP, and a leadership willing to do it, today there is a very stoic attitude of respecting the IB at all costs even in the face of provocation, and an extremely defensive attitude!
Where before a good solid offense was considered key, today all the talk is of defense - and the majority of this shift in attitude has to do with TSP's claims that it will go Nuclear if the sanctity of their territory is threatened!
Many on BR have always held the belief that the TSP dictators and military are a bunch of morons - and whilst that may be true to some extent - let me play Devils advocate and propose that they in fact are a very calculating bunch and fairly intelligent to boot. Sure most of their military campaigns have been disasters but they have surprised us and caught us sleeping!
Think about it they hold a few press interviews, and release a few announcements in a very bellicose manner that they are nuclear capable and willing to push the button if threatened - by doing this their aim was to tie Indias arms behind its back - to chop off our offensive options before we can even use them, by making us defensive and reactive in every strategy and response to provocation...and then to further debilitate our options by embedding into our subconscious the fear of nuclear annihilation. They succeeded!
Now if you step back for a minute and consider that these very Generals and Dictators of TSP live in TSP with their families and loved ones, they know that if they launch India will retaliate, they also know that they, their families, and TSP will cease to exist - a basic instinct in humans is that of survival and the TSP brass is legendary for valuing their survival above all else, country included, - so they are not going to be too hasty in pushing that button!
What instead they have acheived is quite a stunning coup d'etat - by simple manipulation of media and by portraying themselves as "dangerous mad-men" (which in a way they are) they have duped their more powerful neighbour into a state of paralysis. They have turned one of the biggest armies in the world into devoting 90% of its time to hunting terrorists within its own borders and not being able to strike in any substantial way at the bases these vermin originate from.
I am a self-professed Hawk that is already apparent to all who have read my few postings. But I would like to ask the others who have this huge fear of TSP's nuclear arsenal to please explain to me why they so firmly believe TSP will push the button - that too if they even have deliverable weapons (any proof?), and point out the flaws in my reasoning.
2. The constant need to practice maximum restraint in face of provocation:
A case in point is the recent B'desi problem, another is the the ongoing proxy war in Kashmir, or the recent Kargil war.
We always have posters on this forum who immediately criticise any form of retaliatory action, and instead preach diplomacy and maximum restraint - even being a Hawk I appreciate diplomacy and minimization of loss of life - but I also think that there are times to use the big stick you carry, if you won't then why carry it?
If we intend to never do anything about it then why not halve the defence budget and instead apply that to social programs? What is the sense of have a deterrent and then not using that deterrent when the people you are deterring do not pay heed?
It seems that there is a deep need in the Indian psyche to be accepted by others and to be patted on the back by the western nations. This constant need for approval from Uncle and others - it can be argued that to develop as an economic nation we need to have good ties to the west - and I agree fully with that.
However I think India has on a consistent basis proven that it is indeed "good" - in previous wars we have graciously (though I prefer to use the term "stupidly") given back territory we have wrested from TSP, we have acted as a mature nation, we have not exported terrorism to any part of the world, we have acted as peace brokers (IPKF) etc etc but still it seems that a few Indians feel that there is still something left to prove, that Uncles approval is still needed even in matters pertaining to national security.
Tell me folks what else needs to be proven and at what cost? There was a time when our leaders preached that we will not tolerate meddling in our internal affairs - well our current leaders still spout that rhetoric but they do not follow it with their actions - in Kargil for example we were hindered in our actions for fear of jeopardizing international opinion - even though we were attacked ny elements of the NLI with full approval of the TSP brass!! So it is safe to say that our internal affairs are no longer internal due to the subconscious need to prove our "goodness" and "gandhi-ism" to the rest of the world.
The world has come to expect that India will always be passive, just as it has come to expect that Israel will always live by the policy a "tooth for a tooth" - so when Israel launches an attack it really isn't too big deal because it was expected (programmed into our psyche) whereas if India should do something like that it will shock the world because we are expected to be stoic and Gandhi-like. Think about it avery day there is a small article that Israel launched a helicopter raid into Lebanon (big deal - you read it and move on to the sports section; now compare that to your reaction if India were to launch a helicopter strike itn B'desh or POK? You see my point?)
I hope I have made my point that perceptions do really affect the way this world works and that we have really painted ourselves into a corner - not only in a sense that Uncle doesn't expect us to ever do anything offensive, but because now our neighbours too don't expect us to do anything offensive either.
This build up of offensive materials and capabilities within the armed forces is really pointless if we have no doctrine of offense, or leaders willing to utilise it. The premise for having a large armoured corp was to strike through the Rajasthan area into TSP - if that strategy is now mute then why do we still have this behemoth of an armored corp? Why do we have the Guards battalions? There seems to be some disjoint in our patterns of military spending, corp alignment, and the political line adapted by our leaders. (Explanation needed please from some of the military tacticians)
I'd really like to understand why some posters are always so pro-diplomacy at all costs, where do they think it will eventually get us? What are the purported benefits? Have these benefits actually been realised on the ground and in reality? How soft a state is India cosnidered due to these policies? What effect can we expect as a result? How many more border disputes can we expect as a result? I mean TSP has broken every rule in the book - they still exist, they always will - why? Because a stronger India is not in the wests interests.
I hope the finger-pointers do not label this thread as "whining" because it isn't. What this thread is all about is to address the subtle way our thinking has been ever altered and the impact it has had on the armed forces and their doctrine.
I hope that there are some good responses so I can understand better this need for maximum restraint, this fear of Nuclear armageddon, this apparent disjoint in defense expenditures and govt policy.
This is an excellent thread on BR. So far not many people have expressed their views. Would like to know your views.
=================
An important question needs to be asked related to the psychology of the indian peoples, i.e. the indian way of thinking.What you may ask does this have to do with a Strategic Forum? - well everything I say.
A peoples way of thinking is the basis for any strategies formulated, proposed, developed or put into action. The indian mentality is responsible for the actions of the government, indian media and its own peoples, and consequently can have a very direct and large bearing on her armed forces and the doctrines they embody.
I consider BR to be fairly indicative of the various reactions and beliefs present on the subcontinent today, and am continously perplexed by two things with regard to the postings on this forum, and consequently the bearing this has on our geopolitical and military strategies:
1. The constant fear of Nuclear war with TSP:
Almost any and all discusssions on any military strategy/response with TSP is tainted by an inordinate fear of Nuclear war. Almost every offensive option we have is negated, by some posters, because it may cause TSP to launch a Nuclear attack on us!!
If you stop and think for a moment you will notice how our military offensive doctrine has changed from the times of Sundarji and Operation Brasstacks, to present day. Where once there was at least, in theory, a plan to attack deep into TSP, and a leadership willing to do it, today there is a very stoic attitude of respecting the IB at all costs even in the face of provocation, and an extremely defensive attitude!
Where before a good solid offense was considered key, today all the talk is of defense - and the majority of this shift in attitude has to do with TSP's claims that it will go Nuclear if the sanctity of their territory is threatened!
Many on BR have always held the belief that the TSP dictators and military are a bunch of morons - and whilst that may be true to some extent - let me play Devils advocate and propose that they in fact are a very calculating bunch and fairly intelligent to boot. Sure most of their military campaigns have been disasters but they have surprised us and caught us sleeping!
Think about it they hold a few press interviews, and release a few announcements in a very bellicose manner that they are nuclear capable and willing to push the button if threatened - by doing this their aim was to tie Indias arms behind its back - to chop off our offensive options before we can even use them, by making us defensive and reactive in every strategy and response to provocation...and then to further debilitate our options by embedding into our subconscious the fear of nuclear annihilation. They succeeded!
Now if you step back for a minute and consider that these very Generals and Dictators of TSP live in TSP with their families and loved ones, they know that if they launch India will retaliate, they also know that they, their families, and TSP will cease to exist - a basic instinct in humans is that of survival and the TSP brass is legendary for valuing their survival above all else, country included, - so they are not going to be too hasty in pushing that button!
What instead they have acheived is quite a stunning coup d'etat - by simple manipulation of media and by portraying themselves as "dangerous mad-men" (which in a way they are) they have duped their more powerful neighbour into a state of paralysis. They have turned one of the biggest armies in the world into devoting 90% of its time to hunting terrorists within its own borders and not being able to strike in any substantial way at the bases these vermin originate from.
I am a self-professed Hawk that is already apparent to all who have read my few postings. But I would like to ask the others who have this huge fear of TSP's nuclear arsenal to please explain to me why they so firmly believe TSP will push the button - that too if they even have deliverable weapons (any proof?), and point out the flaws in my reasoning.
2. The constant need to practice maximum restraint in face of provocation:
A case in point is the recent B'desi problem, another is the the ongoing proxy war in Kashmir, or the recent Kargil war.
We always have posters on this forum who immediately criticise any form of retaliatory action, and instead preach diplomacy and maximum restraint - even being a Hawk I appreciate diplomacy and minimization of loss of life - but I also think that there are times to use the big stick you carry, if you won't then why carry it?
If we intend to never do anything about it then why not halve the defence budget and instead apply that to social programs? What is the sense of have a deterrent and then not using that deterrent when the people you are deterring do not pay heed?
It seems that there is a deep need in the Indian psyche to be accepted by others and to be patted on the back by the western nations. This constant need for approval from Uncle and others - it can be argued that to develop as an economic nation we need to have good ties to the west - and I agree fully with that.
However I think India has on a consistent basis proven that it is indeed "good" - in previous wars we have graciously (though I prefer to use the term "stupidly") given back territory we have wrested from TSP, we have acted as a mature nation, we have not exported terrorism to any part of the world, we have acted as peace brokers (IPKF) etc etc but still it seems that a few Indians feel that there is still something left to prove, that Uncles approval is still needed even in matters pertaining to national security.
Tell me folks what else needs to be proven and at what cost? There was a time when our leaders preached that we will not tolerate meddling in our internal affairs - well our current leaders still spout that rhetoric but they do not follow it with their actions - in Kargil for example we were hindered in our actions for fear of jeopardizing international opinion - even though we were attacked ny elements of the NLI with full approval of the TSP brass!! So it is safe to say that our internal affairs are no longer internal due to the subconscious need to prove our "goodness" and "gandhi-ism" to the rest of the world.
The world has come to expect that India will always be passive, just as it has come to expect that Israel will always live by the policy a "tooth for a tooth" - so when Israel launches an attack it really isn't too big deal because it was expected (programmed into our psyche) whereas if India should do something like that it will shock the world because we are expected to be stoic and Gandhi-like. Think about it avery day there is a small article that Israel launched a helicopter raid into Lebanon (big deal - you read it and move on to the sports section; now compare that to your reaction if India were to launch a helicopter strike itn B'desh or POK? You see my point?)
I hope I have made my point that perceptions do really affect the way this world works and that we have really painted ourselves into a corner - not only in a sense that Uncle doesn't expect us to ever do anything offensive, but because now our neighbours too don't expect us to do anything offensive either.
This build up of offensive materials and capabilities within the armed forces is really pointless if we have no doctrine of offense, or leaders willing to utilise it. The premise for having a large armoured corp was to strike through the Rajasthan area into TSP - if that strategy is now mute then why do we still have this behemoth of an armored corp? Why do we have the Guards battalions? There seems to be some disjoint in our patterns of military spending, corp alignment, and the political line adapted by our leaders. (Explanation needed please from some of the military tacticians)
I'd really like to understand why some posters are always so pro-diplomacy at all costs, where do they think it will eventually get us? What are the purported benefits? Have these benefits actually been realised on the ground and in reality? How soft a state is India cosnidered due to these policies? What effect can we expect as a result? How many more border disputes can we expect as a result? I mean TSP has broken every rule in the book - they still exist, they always will - why? Because a stronger India is not in the wests interests.
I hope the finger-pointers do not label this thread as "whining" because it isn't. What this thread is all about is to address the subtle way our thinking has been ever altered and the impact it has had on the armed forces and their doctrine.
I hope that there are some good responses so I can understand better this need for maximum restraint, this fear of Nuclear armageddon, this apparent disjoint in defense expenditures and govt policy.